Square goes into the future

[moglow]

Wow. Just wow. That he can't even hear what he's saying to you and understand the obvious impact.

He said "you just can't deal with my emotions."

Well no shit, sherlock! How about YOU deal with YOUR emotions instead of spewing them all over me like lava?!?!

For example, he had told me he wished he was married to this other woman he sees at church. ... Well, that is a hell of a thing to say to your wife.

So now he has to deal with the consequences of saying such a horrible betrayal. And I'm beyond just him taking it back. He said it. He thought it. He believes it. He meant it. But the upshot is that his words are about the kind of husband he is, and he can't squirm out of it.

My inner response to him: I wish you were too, pal.

I'm sorry, Square, that you've been living this. It's hard to believe better of yourself when someone batters away at you with this kind of nastiness over and over. Heck, it's got to be hard for your daughter too. What's all that telling her about husbands and marriage, that it's somehow normal for a man to say those things to/about his own wife, and her not allowed to say anything?

[Poison Ivy]

A few times, my then-husband said something like this: "My therapist says that we can't redo the past; we need to focus on making changes today and in the future." Me: "I agree. Sounds great. Please start making changes!" Then-husband: [Crickets.]

[square]

My inner response to him: I wish you were too, pal.

Hahaha, thanks for the smile moglow!

It's funny how hard it is sometimes for me to get perspective on such insane statements, because I often just accept the basic premise. In this case, that I need to be looking at my quality as a wife. So that is a good bit of perspective for me.

I'm sorry, Square, that you've been living this. It's hard to believe better of yourself when someone batters away at you with this kind of nastiness over and over.

Yes, I am struggling with this. Lately I've been wishing I could one day just have a nice date with a man, not fall in love or anything, just one nice date. And I realized that the reason is that I'd like to be able to see myself through a set of eyes who thought I was worth spending two hours and a meal (or whatever) with.

Heck, it's got to be hard for your daughter too. What's all that telling her about husbands and marriage, that it's somehow normal for a man to say those things to/about his own wife, and her not allowed to say anything?

I don't know what she sees. H doesn't say the worst stuff in her earshot. She does know that he gets angry if he is needed (she also avoids asking him for things) and that his promises are near worthless. We certainly aren't a good model for a good marriage, sigh. She does see I avoid him and am emotionally afraid of him. I do try to point out good aspects of good marriages when I see them. She came to her own conclusion that her dad is not normal. She still loves and likes him though. (And, the hell of it is, I do too, not that it's enough).

[square]

A few times, my then-husband said something like this: "My therapist says that we can't redo the past; we need to focus on making changes today and in the future." Me: "I agree. Sounds great. Please start making changes!" Then-husband: [Crickets.]

I hear ya, PI.

I guess my H is trying to change things, though.

But it's not enough to just stop saying all the horrible stuff.

If there was any chance, he'd have to address it with me. "I used to belittle you when you asked me to take DD to the dentist. It was wrong and I can't believe I did that. Of course you should have felt safe asking me for a ride. Of course I am DD's father and it's not something you owe me for ir have to make it up to me if I do my basic parental duty.

"Yes I said you were too stupid to drive, and it was a horrible thing to say, I was just selfishly trying to avoid being a decent father and husband and deflecting the blame onto you. You're a good wife and mother and I love you honey. You can always ask me for a ride, and if I can't, I'll just nicely try to figure out if we can reschedule or how to solve it, I won't yell at you, it was never your fault. I won't feel angry or upset,

"I really want to be involved with you guys again, I miss both of you so much, you've had to make your lives without me and I regret it. When I said those things I knew I was wrong and never really believed them. I just didn't understand I was feeling so ill and did not know how to say that I didn't feel like I could help becausd I could barely function, and instead of admitting there was something wrong with me I made it look like there was something wrong with you. And that was the biggest mistake of my life because I know you've always done everything to try to help me and be there for me no matter what. And that's how I'm going to be for you from now on, because I love you."

Instead of

"Well jeez I haven't yelled at you about that for at least a year."

[square]

I'm running out of road, guys.

Can't leave yet due to my mom coming to the area to visit.

And don't want to leave this month anyway.

I am thinking I'm at the point of actually getting a uHaul trailer and moving to my mom's. In a few short weeks.

There are drawbacks and problems. We'll lose insurance. I don't know where we'll live when my mom can't live at home anymore. I don't like the area she lives in.

But getting an apartment here or buying a house just is not possible. So I've got to roll the dice and hope for the best.

And even the status quo is rolling the dice. There is no security in staying.

I'm scared, guys. I feel like I'm in a trap and have to gnaw my arm off. But gnawing the arm is looking more and more unavoidable.

[escapingman]

Square, I really feel for you.

But I think you have to live in the present and do what is best for you NOW. You have no idea what will happen in a years time, if you stay or go. But what you do know is that it is very unlikely that your H will change, can you see yourself living with him in a years time? Two years time? A month? I can't advice you but what kept me staying for so long was that I was scared of the unknown and tried to have everything sorted before leaving, in the end I just had to go and see what happened. That was the best decision I ever made, but I had come to a point where it was the only option as all other ones had gone.

Good luck Square, I am here rooting for you!

[square]

It's not just a general fear of the future, EM. Homelessness is an actual possibility, and given progressive disability, my prospects for the future go down instead of up.

But as of right now I'm thinking I exit in early or mid November.

[losingmyself]

I haven't been here for a while, so I just got caught up on this thread. I understand where you're at in the leaving phase of this. I just hope you and DD find a place to live soon. It's scary, because you don't know.
Sending you hugs and prayers for strength  

[square]

Thank you so much LM. I hope you're doing okay as well.

[SonofThunder]

She is not sure what her future can be. The idea of working makes her very anxious, and she can't think of a career that she is both interested in and feels capable of qualifying for.

...she'll get a very part time job while she is there, just to get some experience. Not sure how that will go but she's been musing on it and mentally readying herself. 

She says she doesn't know how she'll live on her own. She previously thought she would end up roommates with a friend but now feels that is unlikely, and either way would be years away as her friends are away at college.

I do feel sure that at this point at least, she would like to live with me. I think she would like to get a place in the same town and live with me and see her Dad probably every night to watch tv with him, but have our own CLEAN place.

Anyway, I mentioned that us living together would require her to have a job as I did not have enough income by myself.

DD maybe should have at least some college.

DD is really worried she can't cut adulthood, and I understand what she is saying. She's happy left to her own devices but struggles to deal with certain things. I homeschooled her for half her life, maybe a mistake, but I'm positive it didn't cause the problem, I think it really would have been worse if I didn't.

Hi Sauare

I want to return to this post of yours. I have left the sentences of the post which my comments will address. 

First, a bit about me, so you know where Im coming from. I am a 2x university flunk-out.  The major university was not my thing.  I finally finished, but just to finish.  I personally do not believe that all higher education is as important as many believe it to be.  Sure, for some careers that require much collegiate level of training (sciences, law, engineering, etc).  I personally believe that the community trade colleges are the way to go.  The 'customer service' in the community college program is WAY better, as local business professionals are also involved in the teaching and mentoring, and they bring REAL WORLD experience to the classroom vs so many career educators teaching students.  Book-smart is one thing, but real experience is all together different, and imo better.   

I came out of my university with a business degree, but zero business experience.  I am now a 30+ year business owner and the concepts taught in business school are FAR different than the reality of my business experiences.  The business textbook/classroom world is a different animal and in so many ways impractical to the very fluid and risky environments in the real world.

As a business owner, I have both full time employees and part time employees. My part timers are all home-schoolers who work half the day and go to our local community college programs.  Ive been employing home-schoolers for 2 decades.  I have seen these individuals come into my business with the mindset of:

"The idea of working makes her very anxious, and she can't think of a career that she is both interested in and feels capable of qualifying for.

...she'll get a very part time job while she is there, just to get some experience. Not sure how that will go but she's been musing on it and mentally readying herself."

I watch them leave my business with their confidence through the roof as they have learned to develop a healthy work ethic and balance work and getting a higher education and learning a trade at the wonderful community college program.  After obtaining an associates degree, some continue working for me while transferring their credits to the larger university, and some have then converted to full time employment at my company, while moonlighting for extra money using their learned trade. 

I have many who have eventually departed for more lucrative employment and have come back to tell me that their decision to simply get a job at my business while learning a trade from the college and balancing it all while learning to 'adult' at the same time, was the catalyst for their entire career. 

These once green, 18 year old home schoolers come back in the door married with children and in careers such as hospitality, engineering, military, sales, hvac, self-employeed, chef, nurse, engine/diesel mechanics and many other professions and tell me how grateful they are to have started their working career in hourly wage 'job' that was not a 'career'.  Good lessons learned.


I want to encourage your DD to just go get a 'job'.  The 'career' will come later as a combo of hard-work, meeting people who are connected, additional maturity in learning to balance work/life, the satisfaction of assisting both your and her transition into independence.  Thats also MY story.

I worked through my rocky college years in a hourly wage job, where I learned to balance work/life and then took what I learned and built a business. My textbook business education is useless to me, but the education of balancing and valuing hard work, and learning to work/life with other people is the most important aspect of my growth. 

Imo, all of your DD's concerns are things she doesn't have to worry about at her age. If I was the local business owner involved in the community college program, I would tell your DD to just go get a job (any job), working as many hours as she can and then also start taking community college classes.

If you and she can be roommates in this transitional period for both of you, then that is an ideal situation for both of you.  You will also then gain some time to figure out your future plan as well.

Imo, DD can simply relax.  Just go get a job and an apartment with your mom and learn to work/life/balance. Its the best education around!  Turning unknowns to knowns is the key to success in work/life/balance and in escaping from a life behind the tall cult walls of the PD's compound to keep you down and serving the PD.  Wishing you both a quick and adventurous departure, together!

SoT

[square]

SoT, thank you so much for your encouraging words.

I do agree with you that college isn't what it is sold as. I told DD that I genuinely did not know if college would be a benefit or a decades-long repayment burden for her. Of course, there can be more to it than just classes; it's a bridge to independence, a place to meet people, and just often is the place where a spark of luck can serve.

Personally, I got my degree and then worked at a dot com founded by a foreign high school dropout who cared nothing for my sheepskin. Lol.

But I still do worry.

The 'career' will come later as a combo of hard-work, meeting people who are connected, additional maturity in learning to balance work/life, the satisfaction of assisting both your and her transition into independence.

Hard work fuels so much... but DD doesn't have any drive. We shall see if any develops.

Networking may be possible in our new future, to some degree. But like many here, we have been isolated so long from others. I have no friends, and meeting people when you can't hear and can't see them glance at you or smile or even that a person is there at all is really hard. DD may have better luck than me, fingers crossed.

Continuing maturity is the one I am heavily banking on. She has matured. I think the big thing is if she can learn to push through things she does not want to do, which is something she struggles with. I personally feel a lot of satisfaction when getting something done, she says she doesn't, hence the discrepancy.

But I do feel encouraged by your experience with anxious and aimless homeschoolers. I am hoping things will work out somehow. As an optimistic person, this is always my default, but this time I just don't know how to imagine the desired future, since "and suddenly my sight started returning and I was able to support myself and DD indefinitely" is just hogwash.

[square]

DD has been talking about a particular career in medical tech that she thinks she could do. She has been open to starting class at the local college next semester, to work toward this career. I am thinking it would be much better if we stay in the area instead of moving to my mom's for a number of reasons, especially so she has a better chance of doing this.

Oddly, I can hardly find ANY rentals in the area, much less anything affordable to me. I have been thinking there must be some other place this info is available.

So I just took my very first concrete action and sent an intake form to the local housing org, which helps with low income folks. I don't know if they can help but if nothing else maybe they can point me the right direction.

I still feel a degree of apathy but it is slightly exceeded by motivation to get the heck out.

No longer care about
Keeping my house I've lived in for 20 years
"Security" of staying (there is none)
Hope H will change (ha)
Letting go hopes and dreams (they're dead)

The other thing is, this isn't a reaction to the latest blowup or whatever. I wouldn't even remember it except I've finally started keeping notes (I have crazy amnesia). The notes aren't for motivation, they are just so I don't draw a blank when inevitably cornered for an explanation. (Yes, I know, noJADE, but I know I'll say something, but it won't be much).

Anyway, it's not reactive. It's just time.

I do feel sad about it and suspect the minor feelings I can notice are the surface over some pretty big feelings. Not really looking forward to unpacking those.

Fingers crossed this housing org can help somehow. Maybe they have the inside scoop on some options. I do dread how awful some of these places will be - have been inside some. But there is one place that is nice and I'd love to live there - waiting list likely 10 years long but a girl can dream.

[Poison Ivy]

Reaching out to the housing organization is a positive action,square.

[SonofThunder]

Reaching out to the housing organization is a positive action,square.

Prayerful thought toward your intake form Square.  A hat tip to DD also for moving herself forward with the med-tech ideas!

SoT

[square]

Thank you both.

I'm having a hard time. I did get info on housing, and the wait lists are a year or so. No surprise. But I do feel stuck.

Since I've stopped holding up my end (meaning, have declined to do my required reassuring and allowed him to glimpse my reluctance to help him while I am not allowed to ask for any myself), things really fell apart here. H brought up divorce. After some consideration, I elected to agree.

I know I'm not supposed to show my hand, but one bind I'm in is that I can't exactly tell DD before I tell H (among other reasons, it would stress her out unnecessarily if I don't succeed in making a move soon, and she wouldn't be able to keep a secret from H and should not have to). But I need her help, to visit properties, fill forms, etc.

So I told him I was looking for a place to go and would be out as soon as I could.

He has the fear of abandonment thing, so he predictably went full hoover. I held my ground. It was hard. I kept in contact with the housing office. I got the forms. But kept feeling more and more defeated.

DD is a priority, and I tried to figure out what plan for the future she could commit to (nothing at all to do with me and H, just her education/employment). She backed out of going to school next semester. I said she'd have to school or work. She said work, but after we visut my mom for the holidays. I know I should say that's too ling but I don't see the point of getting a job for 5-6 weeks given her anxiety. And I considered not going to my mom's and I habe several excellent reasons why I'm going to go.

The housing form is a horrible slog. They want records of every penny earned and banked, three credit references, three personal references (I don't even have any friends), multiple bills proving my residency (everything is a mess here). The form is nearly entirely unreadable to me even with all my accessibilty tools. I haven't filled it yet, it's a whole mountain to climb. And the wait will be long.

I finally told H I would give him his millionth chance, but I told him I was still applying for housing. I explained the waitlist was long and I did not want to stay just because I was stuck. If things somehow worked out between us, great, otherwise I'd have options. I also put it in an email to prove we discussed it (eyeroll).

I also said I was done walking on eggshells. That he needed to manage his own feelings.

It working out is unlikely but I can't make the pieces fit. So now I can still try to plan but have more time. I don't even have to hide it from him. If he wants to flip out if I ask him for a document, hecan go right on ahead and know the experiment is over and I'll just be waiting to exit.

The power dynamic change may ne helpful. It got so far in his favor over the years. I will not abuse any extra power I have, will still take responsibility for myself, but let HIM feel the fear I've been feeling if he starts making his emotional demands.

This already happened once. I refused. He dealt with it.

[notrightinthehead]

Good for you Square! I am so happy for you that you feel stronger and more in control. Continue on this path.

[square]

Thank you both. I assumed I was posting a setback (and personal failure), but maybe it was a step forward after all?

One thing I'm relieved about is that a few years ago, H was in such a state I thought suicide was a full on 50-50 possibility if I left him. But he took this as well as anyone can, really, not to say he was happy. But there wasn't even yelling. It was a hard talk but it stayed calm.

Whether that means we can actually improve the relationship or I can end up leaving without it being a police matter, it's good news.

I just have to make sure I do this damn form. And soon. If I do it, I can sit back for a bit and see how things go.

[SonofThunder]

Thank you both. I assumed I was posting a setback (and personal failure), but maybe it was a step forward after all?

One thing I'm relieved about is that a few years ago, H was in such a state I thought suicide was a full on 50-50 possibility if I left him. But he took this as well as anyone can, really, not to say he was happy. But there wasn't even yelling. It was a hard talk but it stayed calm.

Whether that means we can actually improve the relationship or I can end up leaving without it being a police matter, it's good news.

I just have to make sure I do this damn form. And soon. If I do it, I can sit back for a bit and see how things go.

Square, back in February of 2021, you wrote:

"Here's an odd contradiction. He would let me have the house. But he would never, ever leave.

I can't seem to make the pieces fit unless he leaves and lets me have the house. I can't see him fighting me for the house, but dissolving the marriage, oh, he will go down in flames over that.

Even though he has increasingly proposed divorce. Two weeks ago he came to me wanting one. Ok. I asked him what his plans were. He had nothing. He did his PD blowup and got over his feelings and now we're supposed to just forget about it. I even said "this isn't the sort of thing you can just take back" (there was a lot more to it) but in the end, his feelings blew over, and I could either fight a war or go to bed."

Fast forward to now and your years of experiences after this post: I'm intrigued what of this February 2021 post you have now turned from an unknown to a known. Knowns are huge in our advantage!  Your very last post on this thread doesn't seem to reflect your February 2021 opinion that he would "go down in flames" about divorce, as he was surprisingly calm. Also, why don't you tell him to leave?  You said back then: "He would let me have the house"

Sounds to me that you have a clear open door to divorcing a PD (and you know PD's never change, so "improve the relationship"?)  You believe that's even possible with a PD??  As you know I'm going through my divorce now and I would advise you that if you have an open door, take it!, but tell him you will be staying in the house so he needs to pack up his things and leave. 

Staying in an abusive relationship because of personal finance is imo not a reason to stay, because the PD can keep 'financial matters' dire, just to keep us inside the PD cult compound. I stayed in my relationship to reach a financial goal, but thats because I have a business and without that financial goal reached, all my employees would be affected by divorce. I did not want my employees to suffer because I married a PD. I believe that is different than personal financial hardship, but to each his own on that opinion.  Imo, even a safe temporary shelter organization may be better than living in endless abuse but I have a feeling you are strong and resourceful, even in your limitations. You are applying for housing and you have a daughter who is willing to live with you and work, and those are huge.  If you could get your PDh to leave, could you afford to stay in the current house?   

Wishing you forward progress as 'Square goes into the future'!

SoT

[square]

My husband can barely make plans to go to the grocery store, much less all that would be required to move out (which I'm struggling with myself despite having excellent executive functioning). His income is the same as mine, so he would be in the same bind as I would be in - only worse, since "moving in with mom" isn't an option for him (he actually went NC with his mother a few months ago).

I have no intention of going scorched earth and trying to get a judge to evict a man who is more disabled than I am so I can get the house. If I'm ready to leave, I'll have to leave.

I appreciate that you put that question out there to reflect on. You've given me more motivation to get this form done. It's really important that I do it and set something in motion and actually have an option.

[SonofThunder]

Hi Square,

Thanks for the clarification of your situation.  I commend you in moving forward in proactivity to better your life and possibly take the window of opportunity that exists for a difficult, yet fresh start. 

SoT