Mental pressure: Planning to go home to visit Nparent ended up in meltdown

[FugitiveDaughter]

I was supposed to go see my Nmom recently back to my old home country. Well not just her alone but obviously I was going to have to face her too. It was a very last minute idea (not mine) and to cut a long story short, in the end what caused me to really have a real meltdown and call the whole thing off, in addition to plans being very much up in the air (DH not having actually prepared the itinerary at all) was my mom adding to the pressure by starting to fuss about schedules on where we were supposed to be on any given day. These trips are never relaxing for either of us as both of our families have so much plans for us. I tried to tell mom I was already very stressed out because I knew the whole family on both sides was eagerly making plans to meet us. This had no effect on her. I crashed after the call because of all the pressure on all sides for me to hurry, hurry, get ready, plans changing each minute and everything being dictated for me. And let me tell you, being in your 40s and crying under a table because everything feels overwhelming makes you feel like a total loser.

There's also another thing. I know my DH has a lot to do and he cannot always accompany me when I have to see mom. Nowadays she tries to twist my arm to stay with her for the night, preferably several days. I used to be able to tolerate it but there's an added nasty side to it now which makes me try everything I can to not having to stay at her house without my husband. She uses my back problems and her slightly uncomfortable guest bed as an excuse and last time I was there, she actually made me sleep in her bed with her. Nothing shady going on with that despite what it sounds like and I felt like I shouldn't feel uneasy about it but I did. It felt like abuse. Like she was forcing me to be her child again, like I wasn't an independent adult who has lived out of her house for decades now, married and everything. She would complain that it took me too long to get ready for sleep and I couldn't even take my medication in the morning in fear she'd take notes on what I was taking and would blab to everyone. Luckily she had a doctor's appointment early so I got out of the bed the minute she left out the door, took my medication and ran to the shower so I'd be all ready to leave when she returned.

My husband finds it a bit funny that I got so anxious about the sleeping arrangements and he sometimes even suggest I could stay at mom's while we're back in the old country as he has to work some while there. Never! If mom goes to her summer cottage, it's not a problem since I'll have my own room but then she never leaves me in peace for even five minutes, it's exhausting. I have to listen to her every single minute, have a reaction to everything she has done as she presents her accomplishments to me (she never btw has any reaction to anything I've done except "that's nice..."), forces me to listen to her relationship problems... and I just wish I was somewhere else.

Does anyone else struggle with an overbearing and very unempathetic covert Nmom...? I don't know how I feel about the visit now and I fear I'll have another anxiety attack the next time we have to travel. And I know it will be in the next couple of months.

[Cat of the Canals]

My mother is extremely overbearing and engulfing and does not give a single EFF about anyone but herself. She wants what she wants and doesn't care how that effects anyone else.

And I think you're spot on about the sleeping arrangements. She is quite literally infantilizing you. I also know the feeling of being well into middle age and having a crying meltdown over family visits. 

My suggestion for you:
Do not stay at your mother's house. In fact, I'd suggest you not even VISIT your mother's house, as it will make it that much easier to avoid the pressure of "doing what's convenient" AKA staying there. Choose a day or two to meet mom for an activity, whether it is a meal out or a visit to a local park or museum. NEUTRAL GROUND.

If this sounds like the kind of boundary that you'll never be able to pull off, I've been there too and picked up a little hack. I stew on it briefly and then set it aside for a while. What magically seems to happen is that once a certain amount of time has passed, this new boundary no longer seems so far-fetched or absurd. It seems, actually, quite normal! Exactly what any adult would do, in fact!

I'd also take a minute to discuss the itinerary with your husband and nix a few things. My husband and I used to do this absolutely INSANE thing every year around Christmas. First we'd drive 2 hours to my parents house to celebrate and then 2 hours back. The next day, we'd drive 2 hours to HIS parents' house and then 2 hours back. After one of those lovely meltdowns, I finally said: I'm not doing this anymore. I'm not letting everyone else dictate my holiday celebrations.

And so I decided the following: I am perfectly willing to visit both families, but I will NOT do them back to back. I need at least 3 days in between to unwind. I will NOT do the visits ON Xmas, because I have a right to have my own celebration for my own chosen family. I will not fuss over gifts for grown adults. I will not travel if the weather is poor.

I can't tell you what this did for my sanity, and it was a big step in stopping the cycle of always putting everyone else first, no matter the consequences on my mental and physical health.

[Leonor]

Hi Fugitive,

I get the feeling of the willies around sleeping arrangements with your mom.

My mom did the same thing to me when I was in my 20s on the eve of my dad's funeral. They had been divorced for decades, btw. It was just about her and her feelings. She's histrionic so I don't even know if she really did feel anything. It was just oh, my ex husband died, I shall now be bereft.

It's not just infantalizing. Children usually do not sleep in their parents' beds! That's where partners sleep. She's parentifying you, partnerfying you. Eek.

Narcissist mothers, and covert narcissist mother's especially, often romanticize their relationships with their children. It is such a sick, insidious form of emotional abuse. Who would believe you? What kind of person would get the willies around their own mom?

There's a reason your nervous system is in shambles, Fugitive. Take good, solid, strong care of you.

[Sneezy]

my mom adding to the pressure by starting to fuss about schedules on where we were supposed to be on any given day

This is your mom trying to manipulate and control you. You can feel it in your bones, although if you try to describe the feeling to someone who doesn't understand personality disorders, they are unlikely to understand.  To people who don't understand your situation, it may even sound enjoyable to have someone else do all the planning.  But you are an adult, and you want to be treated like an adult.  You want the freedom to come and go as you please, and to make your own plans.  You don't want your mother to dictate where you will be and what you will be doing every single minute, and that is a perfectly natural way to feel.  My mom used to do this quite often, and it was so hard, but I finally starting telling her that I wasn't going to schedule every minute, every activity, and every meal.  My new mantra was "We're just going to play it by ear, mom."  And she hated that and still hates it, but the more I said it, the more she gave in.

being in your 40s and crying under a table because everything feels overwhelming makes you feel like a total loser.

Nope - you are not a loser.  This is a natural reaction to overwhelming stress.  I'm in my sixties and my favorite time to shed some tears is usually around 3 a.m.  This is not good, as at my age I sure as heck need my beauty sleep.  I feel for you, but please don't feel bad about yourself.  Sometimes a good cry is necessary.

She uses my back problems and her slightly uncomfortable guest bed as an excuse and last time I was there, she actually made me sleep in her bed with her.

This is manipulation and control on steroids.  A good night's sleep is so vital for your well-being. Controlling where and how you sleep is just another means of manipulating you.  My in-laws used to have a very large house with several guest rooms.  And they always put my husband and myself in the room with the little-kid twin beds.  Tiny beds, where my husband's feet would stick out at the end.  It was comical.  And infuriating.  And we were well into our forties when we finally said "no more."  We told my in-laws that we either got a room with an adult-sized double bed or we would be staying at a hotel.  So we started getting an adult bed.  Once you stick up for yourself one time, it gets easier, I promise.

Hang in there, Fugitive.  Take small steps, one at a time, and start asserting yourself.  You are a capable adult and it's time that your mom started coming to terms with that.  You can be kind but firm.  It's not at all disrespectful for a 40-year woman to say "no" to her mother.  You got this!

[FugitiveDaughter]

Everything said here is very helpful and appreciated. Thank for your wise words!

I still haven't booked a trip and I think something is going on. Could just be the usual stonewalling but I am starting to wonder if there's something else there, maybe early signs of dementia or other related issue. Her Nfather had what was probably LBD when he died. Just the fact that when I do call mom (which is roughly once a week or less), there's nothing really to talk about and that she seems very monotonous in a way, kinda like depressed is odd.

So what are the signs? Well, she doesn't follow the news anymore. I used to be able to have somewhat neutral discussion about daily events around the world because she would read the papers and watch the news. Now she just goes quiet like she's been locked up in a cabin in the middle of the forest with no tv. Doesn't read books like she used to. She reads but the books are different. She never used to read light, romantic novels aimed at women but that's all she consumes now. Her topics of discussion are mainly what people I've never met (her "friends", friends of friends and their relatives, neighbours etc.) are doing and how tall their kids are etc. I've tried to get an idea if she is depressed but I dunno. I try to maintain grey rock so from what I gather, she goes about her daily life like she usually does, still exercises, drives around herself, even though she seems to panic a bit whenever she needs to drive somewhere she has never been to and does not want to drive in big city centres anymore, meets her friends, chops wood, cooks, sees her boyfriend... But something is off.

I'm now in pretty ok terms with my siblings but we don't share openly our thoughts of mom (result of triangulation no doubt). They tell me mom doesn't call them like she doesn't call me either, doesn't participate in message chats anymore other than by using emojis perhaps, apparently she just doesn't care. Like one of my siblings said: "I guess she's just happy to have gotten rid of us." And she hasn't seen her grandkids in months either. Her side of the story? They never want to visit her. Their side of the story? She's always busy or inconvenienced when they want to visit.

Should I be worried? I think since she is in her mid-70s there's a chance her health is starting to fail.

[Cat of the Canals]

PDmom and PDmil are both early-to-mid 70s, and my husband and I have noticed a decline in cognitive function. My instinct, personally, is that it is a "normal" sign of aging. It seems a more significant decline compared to a non-PD, which is why it stands out, but it's not nearly as significant as someone experiencing the early stages of dementia, in my experience at least.

I suspect it has something to do with the fact that the PD was already causing limited cognitive function, but being younger and more active and especially having children and jobs required them to engage with the world at large in a way that kept them a little more... elastic, for lack of a better word. They had to stay adaptable. But once they no longer have to work and run around after kids, I think they backslide into a more rigid, more self-centered position. They've always been emotionally immature, but now they seem emotionally lazy, too.

[Rose1]

I've seen this in a few. It appears the pd gets worse with ageing but I wonder if it's just the filter getting weaker.
Less careful about who you offend or what you say.
This is also a symptom of early dementia but it seems to come on quite strongly in pd and focus more on what's in it for me. More entitlement and a lot less tolerance for family members having their own things to do. Why are you not catering to me? You owe me. Etc

[treesgrowslowly]

I second what Cat and Rose1 shared. It could be the combination of aging and lack of emotional maturity, combined with some depression and cognitive decline.

PD's are emotionally under-developed and so aging is going to be hard on some of them. Some seem to resort to a lifestyle that keeps them "on the train tracks" where they have adequate habits to keep them in their own sort of routine from day to day. I saw that in several aging relatives who were emotionally immature. They had some sport to do weekly with 2-3 people and they had a routine to their life as they aged. They had activities they could repeat and that kept them 'in line'.

Maybe the thing that you sense is off, is that she's in a dependent state and you're in an independent state. Having adult parents in dependent states is hard.

The clue that she may be in a dependent state is that she says the reason she doesn't see her grandkids is because "they never want to visit her". This is her story- and in this story, she cast herself as the victim of people who have not done the arranging and put in the effort to visit her.

Where is her effort? Where is her work to maintain those relationships with her grandkids? Does she include those in her story?

If she's got PD traits, then she may have no sense of accountability - that she is supposed to be an active participant in the positive experiences she wants to have in her own life. Instead, its "oh woe is me they don't want to visit me" rather than a more mature insight of "I am not doing enough to keep in touch with them and show interest in their lives". It sounds like she's blaming her grandkids for the quality of the relationship she has with them.

You mentioned the two traits you see. Lack of empathy and being overbearing. Lack of empathy is a trait in emotionally immature people (The book adult children of immature parents describes them in great detail). 

If you were to list her coping mechanisms, would you say that being overbearing is one of them? She's trying to cope with the lack of control over you and your life as an independent adult. Being overbearing was a very popular coping mechanism in my FOO.

She's probably in a dependent state (emotionally) and therefore, cannot see your independence (from her especially) as a good thing. This is very hard on daughters - because the mother is asking to be mothered by her own daughter, while acting extremely controlling and resentful towards the daughter she's trying to recruit as her on-going caretaker. So many aging mothers seem to feel entitled to be mothered by their adult daughters.

Overbearing people tend not to have healthy boundaries with their adult kids.

Trees

[Tribe16]

She's probably in a dependent state (emotionally) and therefore, cannot see your independence (from her especially) as a good thing. This is very hard on daughters - because the mother is asking to be mothered by her own daughter, while acting extremely controlling and resentful towards the daughter she's trying to recruit as her on-going caretaker. So many aging mothers seem to feel entitled to be mothered by their adult daughters.

THIS!!! I'll never understand the "I hate you! You're horrible! Why don't you want to take care of my emotional needs?"

[NarcKiddo]

What is it with beds?

My mother would sometimes take me away on a holiday with her (when I was a child) just her and me. She would always book a double room, never a twin room. Then she would berate me for moving around when I slept and ruining her sleep. To the extent that I trained myself to sleep ramrod straight and not move so this would not happen. Of course I have no way of knowing how successful I was with this training but even years later I regularly wake in the night in the same position I went to sleep, full of pins and needles. I am also extremely cautious about changing position in bed when I am awake, even though I sleep alone.

She has not tried to insist on any co-sleeping since I became an adult, nor would I agree to it. But she does try to get people to take a nap with her. And likes nothing better than to watch TV in her bed with her adult children also in the bed.

[treesgrowslowly]

She's probably in a dependent state (emotionally) and therefore, cannot see your independence (from her especially) as a good thing. This is very hard on daughters - because the mother is asking to be mothered by her own daughter, while acting extremely controlling and resentful towards the daughter she's trying to recruit as her on-going caretaker. So many aging mothers seem to feel entitled to be mothered by their adult daughters.

THIS!!! I'll never understand the "I hate you! You're horrible! Why don't you want to take care of my emotional needs?"

Lived it. Survived it. Am healing from it....I am sorry you are too.

My mother constantly lament that SHE had SO many NEEDS. This narrative of hers ruled my childhood. Her and her needs. Her and her needs. She would act so shocked all the time - Why are we all so bad at taking care of her? What is wrong with us? (she would not actually be asking this, she would say this instead of saying in a more direct way "I really think there's something wrong with all of you - you really were put on this earth to take care of me, why don't you get that??").

It really does a number on us.

Trees

[FugitiveDaughter]

There's so many posts here I want to reply to I don't know how to do that all at the same time.  My mom has said it out loud when I told her I was moving out of the country years ago. She actually said "You cannot leave! I was hoping you'd move closer to me so I would have someone to help ME when I get old!" Needless to say she was already old at that point but she feels she is not old. She was planning all along that I would never marry or move out of my childhood home, even trying to make sure I wasn't too ambitious and tried to influence where I went to study. She was disappointed when I rebelled, did what I wanted, moved straight to my boyfriend's apartment the minute I could.

She often moans how it cannot be right that she has to be the one to contact people and stay in touch with them. I am starting to think everyone around her sees her for the demanding and tiresome personality she is and is trying to keep their distance. Now she is rebelling by not making any effort at all at being interested in anyone else and their lives but herself. She has even confessed she has temper tantrums when her male friend tries to leave her place to go home. Who does that?! In their 70s?! She acts like a child. I cannot understand why the man still hangs out with her but I am glad he does because... you all know why.

She has some routine in her life, thankfully. She seems totally unable to see that she is ageing and realistically might only have ten years left, as cruel as that might sound. There's constant talk about how us kids are forcing her to live in the house we all once lived in. Of course we're not forcing her but she basically cannot accept we partly own the place after our father's death and feels it is wrong she should have to ask our permission to sell the place and move somewhere "closer to nature". We the kids are not sure that is such a good idea when realistically she should be looking at living somewhere close to amenities and making sure she has care services available.

I am wondering if one of the reasons I am being stonewalled (and I actually do not mind it) is because I am now in somewhat cordial terms with my siblings and our mother knows we are having conversations occasionally. She always hates it when we are in speaking terms and talking "behind her back" so she cannot control us. I have noticed a pattern where she intentionally acts disinterested in anything we do or say and never acknowledges anything we've succeeded in. But discussing this with my siblings, they all say she then proceeds to praise the other siblings to make it clear she appreciates them more. Then again she might also badmouth her other children behind their backs. So there's this sick structure where our mother talks about us behind our backs trying to make sure we the siblings are not in good terms with each other so she can be the person in the middle controlling all conversation and having all the information about everything.

The most glaring example of her lack of interest in any of us is how she behaved this summer when two of my siblings had serious health scares about a month apart and might very well have died have they not been extremely lucky and received excellent medical care. She did not make any attempt at contacting anyone after she heard or visit the hospital. She could muster a few text messages and emojis. After their release from the hospital, no interest whatsoever to how they were doing. I have long since stopped talking to her about my own ailments as she does not care or believe me. The last time I told her about my chronic issues, she expressed doubt that I was really even sick saying "perhaps you are so empathetic that you mimic the illnesses of people around you".

And I do so recognise that it is always about HER NEEDS. She was treated appallingly as a child (who wasn't, ha!) by her Nparent, she NEEDS to have people keep her company (she has never been able to be by herself, alone, not even for half an hour), she needs people to listen to her and look at things she wants them to look at! It is quite literally always about her. But she doesn't see it. She is the victim. Her parents weren't good parents and they left her by dying. Then her spouse did a number on her by dying. Her children moved out and abandoned her. Her neighbours ask her all the time how come she is all alone and no-one visits her, poor old lady all alone! 

This is so sick that I don't know how I cope... I wish I could have therapy but I don't trust the therapists. I know that sounds paranoid but I just don't know where to find someone knowledgeable one enough on this topic and I know NPD people might easily end up as psychologists and therapists. And then there's the fear they would not believe me and started to say I have NPD too because I blame my mother for such behaviour.

[FugitiveDaughter]

What is it with beds?

My mother would sometimes take me away on a holiday with her (when I was a child) just her and me. She would always book a double room, never a twin room. Then she would berate me for moving around when I slept and ruining her sleep. To the extent that I trained myself to sleep ramrod straight and not move so this would not happen. Of course I have no way of knowing how successful I was with this training but even years later I regularly wake in the night in the same position I went to sleep, full of pins and needles. I am also extremely cautious about changing position in bed when I am awake, even though I sleep alone.

She has not tried to insist on any co-sleeping since I became an adult, nor would I agree to it. But she does try to get people to take a nap with her. And likes nothing better than to watch TV in her bed with her adult children also in the bed.

Totally, they have some weird obsession with beds and sleeping arrangements! I suspect my Nparent has some histrionic tendencies and this is somehow connected to that. She also acts borderline inappropriate around my husband when the situation has something to do with bathing (this is one of the reasons we dislike visiting her summer villa), parading around in her swimsuit and walking around after shower with a towel wrapped around her.    And then obsessing about the beds and who sleeps where.

[FugitiveDaughter]

PDmom and PDmil are both early-to-mid 70s, and my husband and I have noticed a decline in cognitive function. My instinct, personally, is that it is a "normal" sign of aging. It seems a more significant decline compared to a non-PD, which is why it stands out, but it's not nearly as significant as someone experiencing the early stages of dementia, in my experience at least.

I suspect it has something to do with the fact that the PD was already causing limited cognitive function, but being younger and more active and especially having children and jobs required them to engage with the world at large in a way that kept them a little more... elastic, for lack of a better word. They had to stay adaptable. But once they no longer have to work and run around after kids, I think they backslide into a more rigid, more self-centered position. They've always been emotionally immature, but now they seem emotionally lazy, too.

I think you are absolutely right. One of the reasons my mom tried her hardest to seem like an intellectual interested in various topics was because my dad actually was one. After he passed away I suddenly noticed how much all the good stuff in my life was influenced by him. My father would discuss the news, read books about various topics, he would spend hours researching various topics (this in a way was also a bad thing as he withdrew from the rest of the family for much of the time). Basically he was the kind professor type who got his clothing chosen for him by my mom and who was absolutely useless around the house. Mom was occupied with her work, husband, kids, the house and cooking. When she was left alone, she couldn't be less interested in what was going on in the world, what her children were doing or looking after her grandchildren.

Basically there's no effort anymore because the outside pressure of keeping up appearances and staying adaptable is gone. Quite a sad existence.

[Tribe16]

I am wondering if one of the reasons I am being stonewalled (and I actually do not mind it) is because I am now in somewhat cordial terms with my siblings and our mother knows we are having conversations occasionally. She always hates it when we are in speaking terms and talking "behind her back" so she cannot control us. I have noticed a pattern where she intentionally acts disinterested in anything we do or say and never acknowledges anything we've succeeded in. But discussing this with my siblings, they all say she then proceeds to praise the other siblings to make it clear she appreciates them more. Then again she might also badmouth her other children behind their backs. So there's this sick structure where our mother talks about us behind our backs trying to make sure we the siblings are not in good terms with each other so she can be the person in the middle controlling all conversation and having all the information about everything.

My sister and I were friendly but very distant up until about 5 years ago. As my mother's mood and manipulation has ramped up, we've talked more and have rekindled our friendship. We have had long discussions about the stuff we never spoke of for years - we just discussed triangulation this weekend and it's like a lightbulb went off in sister's head. We realize part of mom's anger is that we communicate now. This no longer allows her to disseminate information on her (mom's) terms. Sister lives nearby, is the only family mom has left that "can do stuff for her", so mom is very careful not to alienate Sister.

[moglow]

...she never leaves me in peace for even five minutes, it's exhausting. I have to listen to her every single minute, have a reaction to everything she has done as she presents her accomplishments to me (she never btw has any reaction to anything I've done except "that's nice..."), forces me to listen to her relationship problems... and I just wish I was somewhere else.

Back when I visited her, same with mommie dearest. It was as if every cubic inch of air had to be filled -by her- with noise at all times, no matter how senseless or off topic it might be. Pause for a moment to consider a response or find the word you're looking for, and you're done in her mind. She'd jump in with comments apropos of nothing and never consider the other person, what they may have to share. It started the moment she woke up and continued until she went to bed - and all centered around her. Woe betide you if you weren't "on" the instant she addressed you or dared try to continue on when she decided it was bedtime. When she stopped ALL must stop or the poo would hit the oscillating object!

She always hates it when we are in speaking terms and talking "behind her back" so she cannot control us. I have noticed a pattern where she intentionally acts disinterested in anything we do or say and never acknowledges anything we've succeeded in. But discussing this with my siblings, they all say she then proceeds to praise the other siblings to make it clear she appreciates them more. Then again she might also badmouth her other children behind their backs. So there's this sick structure where our mother talks about us behind our backs trying to make sure we the siblings are not in good terms with each other so she can be the person in the middle controlling all conversation and having all the information about everything.

Also familiar - mine assumed that if we're talking, naturally it must be about her. It didn't occur and she certainly didn't encourage us having relationships that didn't include her. She'd also talk smack about the others to me (and I have no reason to doubt the same when she talked to them).I always found it odd that she didn't share the good news, happy things. Nope - she dug down for misery. It's as if nothing but doom and gloom exist for her, therefore must be inflicted on everyone.

My suggestion for next trip "home" is to present it as a fait accompli. Make plans to visit with her here and there, with no hint whatsoever about staying with her. I'm thinking include her where feasible but also have distraction, plans other than just sitting and listening to her. Maybe "would you like us to pick you up when we go for lunch with auntie x? She said she'd love to see you!" Don't take it on as your stuff if she declines - it's not personal unless we make it so.

[SaintBlackSheep]

..she never leaves me in peace for even five minutes, it's exhausting. I have to listen to her every single minute, have a reaction to everything she has done as she presents her accomplishments to me (she never btw has any reaction to anything I've done except "that's nice..."), forces me to listen to her relationship problems... and I just wish I was somewhere else.

Back when I visited her, same with mommie dearest. It was as if every cubic inch of air had to be filled -by her- with noise at all times, no matter how senseless or off topic it might be. Pause for a moment to consider a response or find the word you're looking for, and you're done in her mind. She'd jump in with comments apropos of nothing and never consider the other person, what they may have to share. It started the moment she woke up and continued until she went to bed - and all centered around her. Woe betide you if you weren't "on" the instant she addressed you or dared try to continue on when she decided it was bedtime. When she stopped ALL must stop or the poo would hit the oscillating object!

Oh my gosh, I can so relate to both of these statements! Especially from the moment she woke up! My nMom is a self-proclaimed "morning person" who wakes up at 5 a.m. for no reason and proceeds to clunk around loudly in the kitchen, will make a whole breakfast spread for nobody because nobody is awake yet, then crank on some obnoxious news show on the TV until everyone else wakes up. Then, when her full audience is awake-ish against our wills, the badgering and interrogating begins and never relents. If someone isn't excited about this situation, they are berated and made fun of for being "lazy" for wanting to sleep until a normal hour. If someone doesn't want the 3 hour old bacon and eggs, she gets in a huff. She even buys decaf coffee and swaps it out just to be extra spiteful. It's so weird how hard these PD people work just to be awful.

Growing up, I have vivid memories of my bedroom being vacuumed most Saturday mornings at 6 a.m. And not the whole bedroom carpet, just the hallway outside, and then she'd thump the vacuum against my door until it blasted open, then she'd do just a few swipes inside the doorway, just enough to startle me awake, then her mission of disorienting and terrorizing me was accomplished. The fact that the carpet didn't even get cleaned didn't matter, because actual cleaning wasn't the point.

[Cat of the Canals]

It was as if every cubic inch of air had to be filled -by her- with noise at all times, no matter how senseless or off topic it might be. Pause for a moment to consider a response or find the word you're looking for, and you're done in her mind. She'd jump in with comments apropos of nothing and never consider the other person, what they may have to share.

You just described my MIL. She tells long stories with no point about the time she worked at [where ever] and Jean or Vickie or Patricia said she would never bring stuffed cabbage to a potluck, and "I couldn't believe she said that!" I always assumed I had no idea who or what she was talking about because there was some family context I was missing. It was over ten years before my husband finally said something that made me ask, "Wait... you don't know who Jean/Vickie/Patricia is either?" He told me he rarely knew what his mother was talking about.

One of the few times I witnessed him asking for clarification, she huffed and rolled her eyes and gave a snippy response that didn't even answer his question. That was when I realized she's not talking to have a conversation. This is her personal monologue, and we're all supposed to listen and nod our heads and say, "Oh my gosh!" at the appropriate moments.

[moglow]

One of the few times I witnessed him asking for clarification, she huffed and rolled her eyes and gave a snippy response that didn't even answer his question. That was when I realized she's not talking to have a conversation. This is her personal monologue, and we're all supposed to listen and nod our heads and say, "Oh my gosh!" at the appropriate moments.

Yep - or you get "YOU know who I'm talking about!! That's Susie you went to school with, her mother's 2nd husband who was caught up in that big drug bust - HIS cousin's neighbor who had that awful skin condition??" [I have not one clue who any of these people are or why she's sharing this.] "Well they moved here after you left then, but anyway you'd know if you ever bothered to visit ..."

@SaintBlackSheep - your mother made breakfast and vacuumed??? Mine would absolutely beat and bang about, slamming cabinets and flipping on lights until she caught you halfway to the bathroom. Then she'd start the demands about what you were making her majesty for breakfast and when is the last time you vacuumed this floor and the bathroom is a mess and nobody [you] has dusted in I don't know when and and and...

We're all related, no question about it.

[countrygirl]

Hello Fugitive Daughter,

I am sorry that you have to deal with a self-obsessed, overbearing mother.  I can relate to your feelings about a visit.  I used to visit my parents over the holidays, and would begin to dread it as we rounded the corner from summer into fall.  I visit for only five days or so, but I spent many weeks dreading the visits and then weeks recovering from them.  I did see a therapist, and she remarked on this recovery period. 

Speaking of therapists, I think most therapists understand overbearing mothers with personality disorders.  You could even ask a potential therapist if she had experience with these issues before you made an appointment.  I would be surprised if there is anyone who's been in practice for any length of time who hasn't heard this from patients.  Unfortunately, it is all too common:  Witness how many of us have responded to you!

Once I was married, my parents toned their abuse considerably, because they didn't want my husband to hear it.  He was shocked anyway by what they did and said, even though he saw the "lite" version!  Then my parents tried to persuade me to visit on my own.  I knew they were just itching to let it fly!  I never visited without him. 

I also have a bad back, and if you don't mind my making a suggestion, if you do want to stay in a hotel, tell your mother that her bed does not work for your back.  Actually, you will be telling her the truth, because tension is one of the worst things for your back, resulting in pain from tight muscles.

I wish you all possible luck in dealing with your situation, whether you stay with her or not.  Remember that anyone would find this situation trying, and that whatever you decide is okay.  You have to do what you think is best.  Either way, you will have a lot of support here!