Phone convo w/ waif mom has me drained

[KrystalBlue]

I just got off the phone with my uBPD mom, and man.

She started off with how she was worried about the amount of money she spent over the Thanksgiving holiday. I offered to help her out, but she refused, and immediately went into how she felt I didn't appreciate everything she'd done for Thanksgiving and my birthday and that I never thanked her (an outright lie) and how she felt that "all I did was fuss at her" (I asked her, once, gently but firmly, after an embarrassing social situation to not put me on the spot in similar situations in the future.) And the ball kept rolling and the dam broke and it went into the umpteenth rant about the divorce and losing custody of me when I was 8 (I AM 33) and alternating between vague self-harm ideation, self-deprecation, and compulsive apologies.

My own emotional regulation has been the pits since 2020. I still feel an incredible, terrifying wave of guilt on those rare occasions when my own dam breaks and I feel like I'm just echoing the same sentiments about myself in front of my roommate that my mom did about herself in front of me for years. I've had my own regular fits of depression and self-deprecation followed by compulsive apologizing. So this time, I tried to communicate this to my mother, and she wouldn't hear a word of it.

"But you're so smart and accomplished! At least you HAVE friends! I have nothing except for you, no hobbies no friends, I'm so lonely" etc. etc. etc.

I tried, DESPERATELY, to relate and connect and express that I've found myself mirroring her fits of self-deprecation and that I am TERRIFIED by it. I tried to attempt to gain some sense of sympathy/empathy between mother and child. And the response was "me me me" (including, of course, the passive-aggressive "well now I've just upset you")

I even tried to offer us to get some kind of therapy if I can find an office that will accept my insurance for a joint session. Some hemming and hawing was had and the conversation ground to a halt.

I'm so tired.

[Liketheducks]

I'm so sorry you're going through this with her.  It is monumentally draining.   They DO have a way of making it all about them.   Barring getting into therapy asap...there are SO many books dealing with toxic moms. 

Hugs.

[NarcKiddo]

You can't win against this sort of thing.

My uNPD mother is generally full of herself but she can get waify if it suits her ends.

Grey rock is the only thing that makes me able to cope with her. In your position I would probably not try to empathise in any meaningful way. I'd just do the verbal equivalent of smile and nod. "Oh, dear, poor you. That must be very difficult." Rinse, repeat.

[Leonor]

Hi Krystal, and welcome!

I think you might find these titles helpful on how to engage with a waif mother without drowning alongside her or abandoning yourself:

Christine Lawson's Understanding the Borderline Mother

Susan Forward's Toxic Parents

Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents

So, so wise and helpful and understanding. I hope you find them healing.

[moglow]

Krystal, welcome. We feel ya. My mother was queen/witch most of my life, has gone further off into waif/hermit the past several years. I'm just now [60s] able to shut off the witch and remove myself, the waif is harder because she is old and alone. Poor health. Isolated. And just when I soften up the witch reappears so I never really know which will appear, just that it's apt to change when I least expect it. So I limit my involvement on multiple levels - she's not good for me and just about all I hear are baseless accusations and spite I don't need anyway. It's hard to shut down the compassion though, I know, even if that is one shiny abyss of need that we can never hope to fill.

You're not to blame for what's gone wrong in her life - she's the *parent* who it sounds like failed you on multiple levels. That's her stuff, not yours to explain or excuse away. Revisiting ancient history just drags the scabs off again and who wants that? We have to do the best we can with what they gave us, and that's quite enough. To not get much comfort or compassion from your mother, when she's dragging it all back to herself? Painfully familiar.

Maybe start giving yourself time limits for calls? If she's good for about 15-20 minutes a few days a week, go with that for a while. Outside that you have appointments, work, car, dog needs walking. Be pleasant and keep on redirecting to the gorgeous weather, the neighbor's garden, anything uplifting and positive. Do what's best to keep yourself on an even keel, is the main thing. She has to do the same for herself really. No one can do that for her.

[Sneezy]

KrystalBlue - If your mom is lonely, that's on her.  She needs to figure out what to do with her time and she needs to put effort into making friends.  There are plenty of women in her age group who would love to have someone else to do things with.  But you can't do it for her.  Your mom has to put her own effort into taking care of herself.  She can't expect you to entertain her.  She is an adult.  And sometimes being an adult means being bored, lonely, etc.  That's when you join a club, adopt a cat, order a puzzle from amazon, volunteer at the local food pantry, binge a netflix show, take a walk, and so on.  It's up to adults to figure out how to entertain themselves.  Do you expect others to entertain you all the time?  Of course not.  So why does your mom think it's your job to entertain her?

You are wise to nip this in the bud now.  Because it will get worse with age.  Your mom needs to learn how to self-soothe, and if she can't (and it's likely that she can't), then you need to practice medium chill and grey rock.  You can be kind without becoming your mom's go-to source of attention.  You are a young adult with your life ahead of you.  You get to decide how to spend your time.  And I have a feeling that no matter how much time you spend with your mom, it will never be enough.  No matter how much you give, she will suck up more and more.  I often say that my mom is a black hole of despair, and I can't let her pull me in.  Sometimes it is tough, but set your boundaries and live YOUR life.

[treesgrowslowly]

Hi KrystalBlue,

I agree with the other's advice here.

What you did on that phone call, would work well with an emotionally mature person - a parent who can empathize with you and understand where you are coming from. But with an emotionally immature parent, those things just don't work. She sounds immature, I'm sorry to say.

Whenever I adjust my approach because I know I'm talking to an immature person, the conversation goes better. The problem is, our needs are not met. Our need to feel heard is not met.

According to Lindsay Gibson in a youtube video she was on recently, EIP's can grow - if they have self reflection. Otherwise, in my opinion, it's very unlikely that they can learn, even if you drag them to therapy.

You're better off looking at how different you are from her, and that you are (thankfully) not an emotionally immature person. And have a therapist focus on helping you recover from having an emotionally immature parent. Adult children of emotionally immature parents have a lot of emotions that were dismissed by the one person they needed loving attention from. It is exhausting, and I can relate to the feeling of just being so tired. 

Trees

[Boat Babe]

Hi Krystal Blue. Your mother sounds so very very difficult and draining to be around. BPD waifs are so, so infuriating because it doesn't look like abuse but you come away feeling just awful. It's a very manipulative and tricksy pathology. I recommend sitting down with a pen and paper and making a list of the sort of things she says that are not designed to elicit solutions but rather to control your emotions and therefore yourself. Then, using grey rock techniques, write down what you will do and say when she says these things. I say things like "I'm sorry to hear that mum" and then I immediately change the subject. Definitely check out the tools in the website. 

[wisingup]

BPD waifs are so, so infuriating because it doesn't look like abuse but you come away feeling just awful. It's a very manipulative and tricksy pathology.

Thank you for this Boat Babe - it's just what I needed to hear right now.  I always get a wave of guilt when my mom leaves one of her sad "hope you're doing well" voice mails.  But you are right - she is still manipulating me.  She's acting a part to get the response she wants. If she knew she was causing a guilt wave, I think that would please her.