ADHD?

[DCF1952]

Perhaps this is a clinical question but I'm hoping maybe someone here can give me some insight. There are quite a few behaviors that I had previously labeled as ADHD or issues of attention. Then recently it clicked that it was narcissism. But... I don't know. I'm second guessing myself.. here's some of them:
Interrupting me nonstop
Constantly bringing the conversation back to himself (I try to talk about an issue with one of our special needs kids and somehow he launches into a monologue about his job)
Looking away from me when I'm talking, like literally having his head turned
No patience/ impulsive/ reactive
Doing things I have specifically asked him not to do over and over and over
Never asking follow up questions about important news
When I was pregnant with a high risk pregnancy, he never answered his phone. We discovered later he had his notifications for me turned off. He said he knew he wasn't getting the notifications but didn't care enough to put in the effort to figure out why. (Thought this was the adhd feature of avoiding things that require sustained or significant attention)

[Cat of the Canals]

Someone can always be both. However, with an emotionally mature person with ADHD, I'd expect:

-genuine apologies when their behavior negatively effects you. "I'm really sorry I was late." and "I forgot I had my notifications turned off, I apologize."

-attempts (even if ultimately unsuccessful*) to correct their behavior going forward. "I'm going to set a reminder so I'm not late next time." and "I fixed the notifications, so I will know when you call from now on."

*I have ADHD, and it sometimes takes me a LONG time to figure out techniques that work for me to keep a schedule/not forget things/etc. Also, sometimes a system works for 6 months and then just stops working, and I have to start all over again. That being said, I own my failures, apologize when it impacts others, and really TRY to do better next time.

I think his reactions will tell you a lot. If he interrupts and you say, "Honey, you're interrupting me again, can you let me finish?" What does he do? If he says, "Shoot, my bad. Go ahead." that's a sign of emotional maturity. If he says, "But now YOU'RE interrupting ME! And you do it all the time, by the way! I work hard all day, and I just want to vent a little, and you jump down my throat!" that's a sign of emotional immaturity/narcissism.

And what things does he do over and over even though you've asked him not to? If it's something like his dirty clothes don't always make it into the hamper even though you've asked him to tidy up after himself, I'd say it might just be ADHD. But if it's more like, "I've asked him not to sext with ex-girlfriends" or "I've asked him to stick to a budget instead of spending money on things we don't need" and he keeps doing it, that's a different story.

[DCF1952]

Thank you so much for this thoughtful response. To answer your last question- things I've asked him repeatedly-

 not to give our toddlers sugary drinks all day long (for a specific reason- they are autistic and dental hygiene is a major challenge and if there is something that can mitigate tooth decay we ought to do it),

 we had agreed that he wouldn't schedule things on Fridays so that he could be available to care for our boys so I can work. We talked about it repeatedly. For three years, he continues to do it, leaving me in a bind scrambling to find child care.

He had a habit of talking about my medical problems and medication in group social settings. I asked him to stop talking about it, repeatedly. It didn't stop until I publicly told him to stop and reminded him I had asked him repeatedly not to discuss my private information


These are just a few of the things that come to mind. I'm not one to care about things like dropping clothes on floor, in fact I'm more apt to struggle with something like that than he is...

[Latchkey]

Hi DCF1952,

We don't diagnose here and I'd encourage you to not worry about the diagnosis. Around here we often toss around acronyms like uBPD, for undiagnosed Borderline Personality Disorder. Some of us may be slyly slipping in an amateur diagnosis. But for the most part, it is a really very helpful way of saying that we are dealing with "this kind of person." We all understand the types of patterns, behaviors, and reactions one can expect from an NPD, and how it differs from BPD, and the others. Someone can easily be living with both NPD and ADHD.

Agree with Cat of the Canals here

And what things does he do over and over even though you've asked him not to? If it's something like his dirty clothes don't always make it into the hamper even though you've asked him to tidy up after himself, I'd say it might just be ADHD. But if it's more like, "I've asked him not to sext with ex-girlfriends" or "I've asked him to stick to a budget instead of spending money on things we don't need" and he keeps doing it, that's a different story.

The things you are describing put you and your kids into distress in multiple ways. Again, the diagnosis is less the issue than the effect even if the intent isn't clear or appears to be a miscommunication. When things happen repeatedly, and there is harm being done to themselves or others, you need to look at the ways you can protect yourself and your kids.

For me, dealing with exNPDH for example, I took over all child care responsibility in the scheduling because he was unreliable. Years after we split, he actually got an ADHD diagnosis in his 50s, takes drugs for it sometimes. But he still is unreliable with giving me dates for when he is going to be out of town and with any back up care for our now 12yo DS. This might mean for you, to set up childcare for Fridays regardless of what he says and remove him from the equation. I know this is easier said than done, but as they say, the best defense is a good offense.

[Cat of the Canals]

Totally agree with Latchkey's point. Let's say it is "just" ADHD, but he refuses to get help or make an effort to change and do better... that's still a pretty crappy thing to do to a partner. It's called weaponized incompetence for a reason.

Continuing to discuss your private business in public and only stopping once you've publicly admonished him for it is a big red flag, and doesn't sound at all like anything related to ADHD to me. It's basic human decency not to discuss other people's business and not something one simply "forgets" the way you might forget to move wet clothes from the washer to the dryer. So he either didn't care that it bothered you or did it because it bothered you. Ick to both.

[DCF1952]

Thank you for the response, Latchkey! The irony is that I am licensed to diagnose MH disorders in my state- of course, I should not and would not diagnose someone that isn't my patient. I consider myself to be a pretty seasoned diagnostician and this just makes my head-spin. It just feels like new territory and I guess I am coping by trying to look at this like a case study. I think I could figure out where to go next if I could accurately label it.

[moglow]

Totally agree with Latchkey's point. Let's say it is "just" ADHD, but he refuses to get help or make an effort to change and do better... that's still a pretty crappy thing to do to a partner. It's called weaponized incompetence for a reason.

Yep, this right here. I've seen some of the same kind of behavior with my mother, far back as I can remember. Every time behaviors are pointed out to her, she either shuts down or goes volcanic with denial. I suspect mother's an alphabet soup of issues, none of which she's remotely willing to accept much less address.

Oversimplification here but one thing you may want to consider is simply not sharing your private medical information other than on a need to know basis - like only if you're in distress or hospital. Appointments, tests, medications or adjustments in same? Not his business unless it's something he must administer for you. Him discussing it with others in front of me? You've told him openly and publicly to stop. I'd probably make abrupt change of subject or leave the conversation altogether going forward, he can do with it as he will. Others are probably pretty uncomfortable with that kind of personal conversation anyway.

[DCF1952]

Yes, those are good points. There is absolutely zero benefit for me to share medical information with him. He's pretty horrible to me when I am sick and complains about how it effects him. I almost died during childbirth and he has only ever talked about how he was scared that he was going to be a single father and that I was too sick to help as much as he wanted in the first few weeks.

[arcticfox]

Hi DCF,

I'm late to the game but this caught my eye. I'm so sorry for your situation, and thankful for the great messages in this thread that also help me! I also agree on all of the advice, so I won't repeat them, just try to add something that might help.

Also I'm absolutely not an expert by any means, but happen to have rampant ADHD myself and all around me.

I spent years running around in circles in my head, trying to figure out if my relationship problems with my ex spouse were because of his ADHD, my ADHD, his possible NPD, BPD, OCD (or mine), or what exact combination of these. I think deep down I felt that if I could "crack the code", the situation could be resolved. Especially if it was all "just" ADHD.

What helped me immensely, and felt and still feels quite liberating and empowering in a way, was changing the perspective to safe and not-safe persons and situations. I think this was from the Captain Awkward blog, or possibly the Stop Walking On Eggshells book.


To use your example, if someone consistantly doesn't provide childcare on Fridays despite promises, it really doesn't matter why. What matters that, at least in regards of friday childcare, this person is not safe to trust. Intent, good or bad, does not play a role in this.

Now, while this felt a bit cruel to me at first, it is not. It's actually been immensely helpful also with my own ADHD journey, which was only diagnosed with when I was way over 30.

I am not necessarily a safe person in all aspects of life to all people who I love and who love me. I would not recommend myself as a person to carpool with to work on the mornings. I will be late, or early, or on time, but it will most likely be inconsistent despite my best efforts. Younger me would've tried so hard, beaten myself up, made amends, felt so, so sorry, made new promises and ways to make up for the constant, stupid tardiness etc. A whole exhausting circus for all, and quite unnecessary.

Today, I'd be the first person to say that this is a terrible idea, and would wholeheartedly agree with a close one going "Right, this is not working, let's change the system".

My point is, that regardless of WHY, when you're making descisions based on previous experience on concrete outcomes, it doesn't need to be or feel like any sort of punishment. There is a great aspect of grace, mercy, good will towards all and good humour in these kind of descisions, regardless if you're discussing them with the unsafe person or just doing your thing and drawing your conclusions by yourself.


That being said, things like sharing your health information around despite being asked not to is quite inexcusable and  definitely an unsafe thing. It is up to you to figure out where your boundaries lie and what sort of balance with things you experience safe and unsafe you are willing to live with.

[DCF1952]

Thank you arctic fox!