Do they like to be sick?

[mary_poppins]

Both my PD parents are sick-diabetes, HBP, high cholesterol and they also suffer from spine/back-related problems that were caused by lifting too much weight, not protecting themselves at the job AND lack of exercise and weight problems.

Me and my brothers have told them to change their diets, start an exercise routine and drop the fat from their meals. It's years since I told them to take care of themselves because, sincerely, they never do it so I stopped the advice. It's embarassing to tell an adult to take care of their body so they don't cause too much injury to it (eg. have a diet to control blood sugar and BP or exercise for their back problems..) Any normal adult KNOWS this already, why should I teach them what's normal.

Then I realized that they get pleasure from being sick and unwell. People pity them when they hear about their back problems (my mother spends an hour talking to her sister on the phone about her condition)-they also get out of social obligations by using their health issues (I threw my back out so I can't attend my friend's husband's funeral).

Someone like me who's used to taking care of her body cannot understand why some people enjoy putting their bodies through so much stress just to get narcissistic supply in form of attention and pity from others.

what are your thoughts on this?

[NarcKiddo]

I have never found it productive to tell grown adults what they need to do to take care of themselves, PD or no. If they ask for advice I will give it. My PDs rarely ask for advice and if they do it is usually for the purpose of ignoring it.

My mother and sibling have a somewhat complicated relationship with health. They will take a huge and intrusive interest in that of other family members and my mother in particular engages in performative care and compassion. When the spotlight has been on the patient for long enough she will turn it on herself by whatever means possible - a bad knee or whatever.

She seems frightened of any major health issue she might face, however, and does not easily share anything truly alarming until she is satisfied that there is no danger, or the danger has passed, at which point the condition is milked for as much drama as possible. She is utterly terrified of being told to go to hospital. She avoids hospitals like the plague, even to visit the sick, and if she has to visit the sick she will not go alone.

Despite her fear of major health issues she does not do anything to help herself if it disrupts her pleasure. She will happily take medications but she will not exercise, lose weight or stop smoking. In fact, according to her, the entire medical profession is wrong about smoking and drinking. Such activities are quite harmless. 

Some while ago she complained to me about cancer sufferers - according to her they shamelessly use their condition to get attention and sympathy and to cause as much disruption as possible for those who have to care for them. Projection, much?

[TimetoHeal]

It really seems so in the PD people in my life.  My ex-husband, his mother, my mother.  For my mother, this is relatively new since she has gotten older.  She used to take immaculate care of herself, but looking back, I think it was more for "looks" than for "health".  When her youth and looks went, she didn't really care anymore, and gets a lot more supply from being sick than from looking good now at her age.  It's so hard for me to relate to, because, as a single woman, my worst fear is becoming unable to care for myself.  I am not perfect, but do my best to stay strong and healthy so I can keep working and live in my house as long as possible.   

I agree with NarcKiddo that telling adults what they should do for their health is futile at best. 

[Call Me Cordelia]

Someone like me who's used to taking care of her body cannot understand why some people enjoy putting their bodies through so much stress just to get narcissistic supply in form of attention and pity from others.

For those people, the payoff in the form of narc supply is worth more than the payoff of good health. My parents definitely had that tendency too. My uBPD MIL, quite the opposite. She lived in a part of the country where fitness and self-care were extremely valued, and she was extremely competitive. She and my mother would get into these bizarre contests where my mother was saying how sick and pitiful she was and my MIL would respond by bragging about how perfect her health and fitness was. One-upsmanship where the contestants couldn't agree which end was up!

[clarityjane]

I can see this common theme with my own NP parents, to the point that I have somehow learned not to share my own struggles(having struggled to add this very sentence) for fear of looking like a foolish attention seeker. One thing Narcs are good at is finding people who will fix their problems for them. May we let them wallow in their own.

[mary_poppins]

Thanks, everyone for your reply. I agree these people are adults and I shouldn't tell them what to do. I guess I still have some codependent traits to work on.

@Call me Cordelia: well, I didn't know that the narc supply for a narc is so needed and crucial for their existence. I think, deep down, I can't empathise or understand anything regarding needing narcissistic supply to function well. I can live without many things and still be happy (have gone without food for cleansing and felt so good). But I'm not PD so it's hard to get into their mindset and see where these people are coming from.

[mary_poppins]

May we let them wallow in their own.

AMEN! This is what I am planning on doing.

[Liketheducks]

Oh yes....raising my hand here.   When my BPD Mom had a heart attack....and we were NC at that time....I immediately phoned her when I received the news.   Her response "you have to fix this".   I remember thinking "fix what, exactly".   Granted, I'm a middle aged triathlete.  I have vices, for sure.   But, I wasn't sure how I could possibly somehow be responsibly for fixing the pack a day smoking habit, the fad diet binges, the constant looking for alternative medicine approaches for the next best supplement. Now I now, she was taking that opportunity to yell because she was scared and wanted me to fix the relationship she broke.   Look, I don't begrudge alternative medicine as a tool.  But, heart disease might need further intervention.   I'm not giving that advice.  It is hard for me to hear about the issues and her "fixes" for them.   Dad is the same.   

What nags at me a bit.....I've tried hard to stay active, I usually eat right....yep I could lose a few pounds, but I'm in a healthy place for my age...but when I see mom, she tells me what is "coming for me".   That certain chronic diseases run in our family.   I wish it felt like she was trying to be helpful, but usually it doesn't.

[blacksheep7]

A bit late but I want to add to this conversation.  My M eats healthy, the Mediteranean diet...of course she was born there.  But wait.  She always boasted not liking sweets but still exagerated in her portions of pasta, bread, cheese. When the doctor told her that she needed to lose weight, she replied that she has been maintaing her weight.  Denial. She was telling NF and I, I made no remark. Zip.
When my brother put on a bit of weight, she would tell us how he was overweight blah blah blah. The nerve.

My ex., father of my children is proud to say that he has six doctors looking out for him. I never embark on his conversation! No way am I going to give him fuel. He is a diabetic type 2 and he always injects himself at the table before we eat. Look at me.   He didn't take care of his health....too much alcohol.

I also don't pity them. Yes I believe it is also good supply/attention.

[escapingman]

Interesting topic.

My uNPDxfil used to brag about how the doctors told him he wouldn't see 60. He made no change to his lifestyle other than a few fads everyone had to know about. He completely relied on all his various medicines which he paraded in front of everyone, he died at 62.

My uNPDxw suffered from eating disorders which she almost bragged about, however she always blamed me for them (despite having issues long before we met). She did go to therapy for it and after every session she told me the therapist told her what I need to change to help her get better - never anything she needed to change.

So glad I am out of that kind of drama but they certainly like being a victim one way or another.

[mary_poppins]

Oh yes....raising my hand here.   When my BPD Mom had a heart attack....and we were NC at that time....I immediately phoned her when I received the news.   Her response "you have to fix this".   I remember thinking "fix what, exactly".   Granted, I'm a middle aged triathlete.  I have vices, for sure.   But, I wasn't sure how I could possibly somehow be responsibly for fixing the pack a day smoking habit, the fad diet binges, the constant looking for alternative medicine approaches for the next best supplement. Now I now, she was taking that opportunity to yell because she was scared and wanted me to fix the relationship she broke.   Look, I don't begrudge alternative medicine as a tool.  But, heart disease might need further intervention.   I'm not giving that advice.  It is hard for me to hear about the issues and her "fixes" for them.   Dad is the same.   

What nags at me a bit.....I've tried hard to stay active, I usually eat right....yep I could lose a few pounds, but I'm in a healthy place for my age...but when I see mom, she tells me what is "coming for me".   That certain chronic diseases run in our family.   I wish it felt like she was trying to be helpful, but usually it doesn't.

OMG, I think we have the same mother. Christ!
My mother also wants me to fix or explain her health issues. I remember when we were VLC, she called and asked me to fix a stomach bug she had. We were 3000 km away and she still acted like I was her doctor/therapist/health provider.

I hope you resumed no contact. See, they don't really need help from us or trust us with our wisdom, they only want attention and to torture us endlessly with some things they know will never be fixed (eg. their heart issues or weight problems or back issues). 

[mary_poppins]

I also don't pity them. Yes I believe it is also good supply/attention.

I did not know that all these health issues they have are supply for them. Normally, you are worried for someone who has diabetes type 2 and eats unhealthy meals and sweets (dad does this and has bad side effects from it) but now I see that all they do against their health is JUST FOR SUPPLY.

THANKS everyone, my trauma bond glasses are less blurry now.

[mary_poppins]

Interesting topic.

My uNPDxfil used to brag about how the doctors told him he wouldn't see 60. He made no change to his lifestyle other than a few fads everyone had to know about. He completely relied on all his various medicines which he paraded in front of everyone, he died at 62.

My uNPDxw suffered from eating disorders which she almost bragged about, however she always blamed me for them (despite having issues long before we met). She did go to therapy for it and after every session she told me the therapist told her what I need to change to help her get better - never anything she needed to change.

So glad I am out of that kind of drama but they certainly like being a victim one way or another.

This is just mind blowing. It shocks me to hear from people whose NPD person died because of their desire to be an endless victim. Thx for contibuting to the topic!

[easterncappy]

My dad (suspected NPD/APD) died about a year and some months ago, his death certificate was crazy. Uncontrolled hypertension and medical noncompliance, leading to a brain hemorrhage and heart attack. I was NC with my parents at the time, but after I started LC (from another continent as my mom had to move in with her parents after he died) I found out that about 4 months before he died, he was in the ER with various symptoms relating to high blood pressure, poor heart health, etc. and was basically told in polite doctor terms that he was going to have a stroke and die if he didn't immediately stop smoking and drinking (he did both to an excess), watch his salt intake (he loved fried food and junk food snacks), etc. and he literally scoffed at the idea. He always did. Even I believed as a young woman that he was basically immortal. I remember first being conscious of my health and thinking, "what's the point - my dad's made it this far and he treats his body like a garbage can". He always made fun of people who watched what they ate, and healthy food was rabbit food.

And then he died.

However, I do agree with the others that there's no point. It's one thing to have a private and very carefully worded one on one with a well-adjusted individual who you are close to, whose habit are starting to worry you (ie. normally healthy person who is generally mentally well-adjusted, who has been binge eating pizzas and put on 50 lb in a matter of months, coincidentally after a bad breakup or something...), but it's a whole other thing to try to have this conversation with someone who has a distorted view of reality due to a PD and has never cared about their health. Waste of breath TBH. You're not gonna undo the layers of logical distortion there, I think.

[easterncappy]

This reminds me of another person I knew. Suspected NPD. Older woman from church who really preyed on me after I had my first baby and had bad PPD (in the midst of all of the family drama and difficult emotions surrounding my dad's death - I took the bait so hard and I'm so ashamed but I was so lonely and lost), who did have one genuine medical issue (there is no debating that she really did have chemo and recurring cancer) but also a slew of really weird made up ones. One that was interesting enough to mention was her convenient allergies to anything people brought around. She said she had a severe allergy to poinsettias, urged people at church to get them OUT of the building NOW. She swore she'd go anaphylactic. Well I did some research and no one has ever actually gone anaphylactic from poinsettias... in fact, it's such a rare allergy that it's not counted as an allergen, and if it does trigger an allergic reaction in a person, it's similar to a normal pollen allergy. Different thing altogether - for that, you take a Benadryl and don't immediately start barking orders that all of them are removed from a building NOW. I suppose it's theoretically possible that she wasn't lying about this, but she'd also constantly eat things she'd claim she was allergic to as well, and was really into snake oil types of "medicine". My suspicion about her, after getting to know her very well, was that she enjoyed the attention for her fake medical events, control over others by forcing her to do things on her behalf to "prevent" the "medical events", and feeling like she found a solution to a problem with the snake oils. One time she called us to get my husband to drive her to the ER, really freaking out and crying, and it turned out she was fine... I wonder, if that was another made up thing.

[NatachaJ]

This question has me unsettled. My mom is frequently sick, and I never viewed it as part of the PD. She's had health issues since she was a teen. I'm not sure she "likes" being sick, but I do see how she uses her health issues to her advantage, to make the focus on her, and to make me feel bad for her, or beholden to her.

[Breadroll]

Older relative ( npd?-now deceased) used to visit with a list of conditions that needed daily trips to medical services - definitely thrived on the attention, to the point where falls and bumps were semi- deliberate. Exhausting.

[mary_poppins]

My dad (suspected NPD/APD) died about a year and some months ago, his death certificate was crazy. Uncontrolled hypertension and medical noncompliance, leading to a brain hemorrhage and heart attack. I was NC with my parents at the time, but after I started LC (from another continent as my mom had to move in with her parents after he died) I found out that about 4 months before he died, he was in the ER with various symptoms relating to high blood pressure, poor heart health, etc. and was basically told in polite doctor terms that he was going to have a stroke and die if he didn't immediately stop smoking and drinking (he did both to an excess), watch his salt intake (he loved fried food and junk food snacks), etc. and he literally scoffed at the idea. He always did. Even I believed as a young woman that he was basically immortal. I remember first being conscious of my health and thinking, "what's the point - my dad's made it this far and he treats his body like a garbage can". He always made fun of people who watched what they ate, and healthy food was rabbit food.

And then he died.

However, I do agree with the others that there's no point. It's one thing to have a private and very carefully worded one on one with a well-adjusted individual who you are close to, whose habit are starting to worry you (ie. normally healthy person who is generally mentally well-adjusted, who has been binge eating pizzas and put on 50 lb in a matter of months, coincidentally after a bad breakup or something...), but it's a whole other thing to try to have this conversation with someone who has a distorted view of reality due to a PD and has never cared about their health. Waste of breath TBH. You're not gonna undo the layers of logical distortion there, I think.

Yes, correct. I agree with your last sentence.

Btw, my dad also made fun of people who were eating healthy-of me as well (I'm obsessed with veggies and salads) and of my siblings, too. I think making fun of healthy people is their way of expressing how envious they are on others who enjoy healthy eating because they just can't do it. Narcissists in particular are very envious people.