I am spiraling

[Dinah-sore]

I just got off the phone with my
BPDm, she ended up laying into me about my marriage. She said that I don't get over things like other people. That I am like an elephant who never forgets the bad things that my husband does, that I don't forgive. She said I don't let myself just be happy. That I should think of the things my husband does right, not just the ways he lets me down.


I am wondering if she is right. I have looked at his behaviors as if they are a pattern of narcissism. But what if I am making a big deal out of just normal mistakes.

At first listening to her I felt defensive, like these aren't just normal mistakes he makes. But like a big deal. Like a pattern of narcissism, rages, emotional abuse, neglect, etc.

But what if I am wrong and these are just normal people mistakes. She said I need to decide now to leave him or to forgive him. And that I won't be happy if I leave and I won't be happy either way.


Am I the problem, I have posted the things he does on this forum for a long time. And I hope I haven't been bothering you guys over stupid stuff.

In my values I feel that forgiveness is part of love, we forgive people we love. But when people we love keep hurting us it is necessary to create boundaries.

But what if what I thought were boundaries were just ways for me to stubbornly stonewall my husband. What if I am bad because we haven't been intimate since he drove without chains on black ice even though I cried for him to stop, what if I am withholding intimacy from him because I am disordered and not because it is hard for me to be intimate with someone who I don't trust.

What if I am causing all my problems by having too high standards.



I am so sorry if this post triggers anyone. I am spiraling. Please don't let my own personal doubts that are probably rooted in a conversation with my mom who is BPD, cast doubt on your very real and significant experiences and situations.

I don't want to ignore the possibility that I am the problem.


Do you guys think that I am overreacting to my situation with my NPDh, and not being gracious and forgiving enough to him? Is that maybe a sign that I have a PD?

I don't want to hurt my husband or let a bad attitude hurt/destroy my family.

[jumpin]

Can you give an example where you think you could be overreacting? Whats an example of something he does?

[square]

Hon, your mother is an extremely toxic woman. She has a vested interest in making you feel crazy and beaten.

If she supported you, you would be harder for HER to abuse.

You might start realizing how similar your mother is to your husband and start pushing back.

She is on his team because they are cut from the same cloth.

How forgiving is SHE? How forgiving is HE? How much do they bend and scrape and work to pacify YOU so the relationship goes smoothly?

It looks sort of normal to you because your mother raised you that way, but your instincts are correct - it's not normal and not okay.

[Dinah-sore]

Hi, sure. He rages pretty bad, usually 2-3 times a year, he will snap and explode and raise his fist and get in mine or the kids faces and physically intimidate us. I have had to lock
Myself in my room before, I have had to take the kids and leave, we have stayed overnight at my parents house because of his rages. He always blames us for them. He has pushed my daughter to where she has fallen. And lied about it, looking me in the eye and saying it never happened. Like he really thinks he can convince me he didn't do it.

He had not protected me or the kids from a sex offender in his family that repeatedly assaulted me, and tried to molest the kids. He pressured me to not break contact with this person because it would upset his family.

When our oldest was 12 she was sexually assaulted by a boy from the school at the church he works at. He refused to take my dds side, and even promoted the boy who assaulted her to a position of leadership in the school. And when I would get upset or my dd would ask him why, he would scream at us like we were wrong for being upset that he is being too nice to the boy who assaulted my dd. He never once showed any anger at what happened to her, just at us for being upset at what happened.

My kids and myself have chronic illness, and he ignore it. He has seen me and the kids faint and have seizures and he will step over us to walk past us, without helping us, he won't pay for the medical care so my parents do, he won't help or nurture the kids when they are ill so it falls on me. He will stay out with friends and hang out socially while I am at home taking care of the kids. It was much worse when the kids were sicker, but I still remember because when things get bad he still goes back to being unhelpful.

He won't let me participate in the financial decisions, I have no say about our money, he had a credit card (I don't), and he will max it out and I have no idea with what, then he asked his dad for ten thousand dollars. I haven't talked to his family for 12 years because they were upset with me about setting boundaries with the sex offender. So his family hates me and he went and lied and  told them I wanted their money to pay off my husbands credit card. Then when he brought it home he lied to me and gaslighted me into thinking that I told him I wanted the money. But I know I would never tell him that, so I said no, and he admitted he was trying to get me to doubt my memory and believe his lie.

He humiliates me and the kids in Front of our friends for all of his jokes, even making fun of his 12 year old daughter in front of her boyfriend and friends saying her underwear is crusty, and she was totally embarrassed and shocked. Like those kinds of jokes.

He will be everyone else's hero but never there for us. He is a minister and he visits people in hospitals for work, but When my dad had a heart attack a few months ago he needed emergency surgery and my husband waited in the truck instead of the waiting room with me, waiting to see if my dad would live, he texted me to ask if I wanted him to go home or wait in the parking lot.

One time 25 years ago, he threw ice water on me in a parking lot of a burger place, and I ran to get away from it and I moved in front of an SUV pulling into the parking lot, I got hit by the car and hurt really bad, he didn't take me to get medical care, or tell my parents. I was 20 he was 26. He tells the story like it is the funniest joke.


So idk he isn't physically abusive (yet), but the stuff he does is more like stuff that makes you feel like he doesn't care about you at all. He cares about people outside the house though and they give him a lot of admiration because of his job, and he will be there for them in trouble.

But like a couple months ago we were driving and it was black ice, and the roads were mandatory chains, and we don't live in snow so it isn't like he is used to it. But he wouldn't listen to the highway patrol and we were skidding bad on the roads and I was screaming for him to stop and put the chains on, and he just snaps at me like I am the problem, and he won't listen and I think omg we are going to die. And he never says sorry or shows remorse. It is just frustration, I upset him by being upset. So he will snap at me, not listen to me and do things safely and legally, he just does what he wants, my concerns bother him. Whether it is black ice or a sex offender in his family, or heath problems or financial problems. I bother him. And he will snap at me, and he may rage at me with veins bulging out of his neck and his face as red as can be, if I make a fuss about any of it.

In the very least I can't trust him or depend on him, and when it gets really bad, he feels like my enemy who wants to work against me.

[Poison Ivy]

I don't think you're overreacting or that you're the problem.

[notrightinthehead]

Your mother has done so much damage to you, don't take anything serious she tells you. Your husband treats you and your kids very badly. You are suffering so much. It seems to me that you're trapped and your mother sides with your husband, so both keep you gas lighted in this state of suppression and confusion.
Next time you have to lock yourself in a room because he rages, please consider calling the police and get the abuse on record.

[Rebel13]

Oh my gosh, I couldn't even read through your entire list of your husband's behaviors. You are SO NOT the problem. There is nothing wrong with you. His behavior is abusive. I have recently started working with a trauma-informed therapist and have learned SO much in just a few months about how being raised by a disordered person created destructive, self-defeating patterns of thought and behavior in me, before my brain and nervous system were done developing. I would encourage you to seek out resources for yourself.

A couple of examples are Ingrid Clayton, PhD, on Youtube, and Pete Walker, who is a trauma counselor with many helpful articles on his website.

I have put some things that were helpful to me in the Resources section of this forum as well but you could also start to research the effects of trauma and CPTSD and find things that are helpful to you. I wish you well and I hope you can find the support and peace you need to create the best life for yourself that you can.

[SeaBreeze]

Before leaving stbx-uNPDh, I went through a stage where I asked myself: am I the problem, or perhaps making him the problem, due to being influenced by all my research on NPD and time spent on sites like Out of the FOG? I had to remind myself, I didn't just randomly get bored one day and decide to Google topics like "abuse" or "personality disorder" for the heck of it. I researched these topics, and found answers at places like Out of the FOG, because I *needed* answers to explain and understand what I was already experiencing in marriage. I didn't make H out to be an abusive narcissist; rather, I finally found labels that described years of mistreatment and matched his behaviors.

I suspect you didn't just randomly stumble across Out of the FOG and think oh, hey, I'm going to MAKE what I'm reading here match what's going on at home! Rather, I'm going to strongly speculate you sought out resources to help you navigate and understand what was already happening in your life. And a site like Out of the FOG resonated with you.

In short... it isn't you.

[Call Me Cordelia]

 

You could get near universal affirmation that all of the awful things you wrote about are not your fault, are horrible abuse, you deserve better, your husband and mother are not just making "normal people mistakes."

But what stands out to me is that your mother outed herself in my opinion. She thinks you should "forgive" him, that is, gloss over all the really horrible abuse. Can't emphasize enough that it really is that. But she goes on to tell you that whether you leave or not you *won't be happy either way.*  Your own mother tells you you are doomed to unhappiness? That is messed up. The very opposite of supportive. You have every right to seek happiness in your life and you don't need those toxic words keeping you down.

My father told me similar. He told me from the age of six that "everyone" would despise me my entire life and I should just get used to it. It was a lie and a projection. He told me everyone would despise me because he despised me. She tells you you won't be happy because she doesn't want you to be happy. She's a beastly, contemptible, good-for-nothing woman.

[square]

Beastly.

[SonofThunder]

Dinah, what you describe is physical and emotional abuse of you and your whole family.  If you have ever seen an interview with a person who finally escapes a cult compound, they describe their experiences as normal when its horrors that have been normalized. 

I agree with the others who have commented here as well. Im so very sorry you experience this and my wishes are for you and your children to become free from the horrible situation.

SoT

[sunshine702]

I AM SO TIRED OF TOXIC ABUSERS MINIMIZING EMOTIONAL ABUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!

No you are not "over reacting" or "too sensitive". NO! You are a frog in a very hot boiling water pot trying to describe it accurately!!

This is societies BIG PROBLEM right now - rug sweeping ABUSE.

Read what you wrote out loud  and replace the abuse sections with "broken leg"

So I called my mom about my broken leg and she said I just couldn't be happy and go jogging like a normal happy person - that those pain feelings that are radiating are you just being "too sensitive" — sounds pretty dumb right...

[sunshine702]

Rage storm on/

I also want to talk about FORGIVENESS.  I keep being told that too.  Especially by dumb "church" people.

Now eventually I do get that.  Lifelong bitterness can corrode.  But healthy natural ANGER about ABUSE is not something we need to be telling anyone to FORGIVE until they are SAFE and READY!!!!!

I want to tell these people to shove it up their bleep.  A lot.  I haven't yet but I think it in my head and you should too for a bit.   Again not forever clearly but for a bit

[sunshine702]

Abuse is not "normal mistakes". It is CALCULATED and DELIBERATE.

I am reading this book right now -  I encourage you too.

(A link to Amazon and a amazing book on The Mindset of a Domestic Abuser)

https://www.amazon.com/Why-Does-He-That-Controlling/product-reviews/0425191656/ref=cm_cr_arp_mb_paging_btm_2?ie=UTF8&reviewerType=all_reviews&pageNumber=2

[Rebel13]

There's a free PDF copy of that (wonderful) book here:  https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf

[sunshine702]

The TYPES wow that rang true.  Mr Always Right.  Mr Sensitive.  The victim.  The Terrorist. The Drill Sergeant.

It's about how they VIEW you - not a separate person and less then.  It's about power and control.

Yep yep yep

[MaxedOut]

You are not overreacting. That is significant abuse. I am sorry that your mother is minimizing things and blaming or both-side-ing things. As others mentioned, it sounds like she has her own issues.

You mention church context, know that there is often pressure to stay together regardless of a husband's treatment (especially if US evangelical, Baptist, Catholic, etc.). That may not be the case with your faith community, but the church abuse, mother's reaction, and apparent view of him as a good man despite public humiliation, raised some flags for me.

If some of that maybe rings true, I'd encourage you not to seek counsel/counseling from affiliated people. You need support from someone looking out for you. There are also resources specific to escaping abuse when the faith context is significant.