He Told Our Son To F Off

[Beachlife]

My son & daughter were helping my husband put items on our verge for a bulk rubbish collection. Suddenly I heard my husband scream and swear at my son. My son took off in his car and messaged me saying he was safe but he wasn't coming home.

My husband minimised what happened, just told me he yelled at son. When my son finally came home about 10.30 tonight he told me he was trying to warn his dad about a dangerous spider and his dad lost it and screamed at him to not to yell at him then yelled at him to 'f&ck off, he'll do it himself'!

I told my husband we can't deal with his anger issues anymore and I think we should separate. He blamed us for his anger issues, denied the countless times he's split on us, ranted/raged/sworn at us, stormed off and silent treatment without any apology afterwards. Said his needs are ignored, I'm so withdrawn and distant to him (which I've done because I can't handle his splits anymore and his refusal to take responsibility for them). Once again the blame falls on me and not him.

He doesn't want to separate, even though he only loves me 'sometimes'. He doesn't want to start over with someone else. He wants to do marriage counselling but wants me to organise it. He also told me he was 'looking in my drawers for chocolate' and found a pamphlet about divorce!

He can't see how abusive he is to us. He can't see that he is damaging his relationships with his kids.
He can't see why I've distanced myself from him.

How can he not see his own behaviour has caused this?

[notrightinthehead]

Well done to your son!  He did a healthy thing - he removed himself and thus prevented further abuse. That showed mature behavior.

I found that when I stopped wondering about why my abusive NPDh behaved like he behaved and why he didn't understand what damage his behavior caused to us, and began to wonder why I was still enabling his behavior, my situation shifted and I began to change.

[SonofThunder]

Beachlife, Im sorry you and your children deal with his repetitive anger.

You wrote:

"I told my husband we can't deal with his anger issues anymore and I think we should separate."

I take it that "we cant deal.." is meaning you and the kids. Therefore, I will assume you would like to reside in your current home with the kids and your husband live at a different address.  In my state in the USA, I do not need an agreement with my spouse to separate, but where you live, that may be different.

I will presume that it would be much easier for your husband to live elsewhere so the children aren't uprooted from their home.  Have you considered taking a more direct approach to your words, asking your husband to pack his things and go live elsewhere? 

Opposite gender roles from your situation but My PDw kept threatening me with divorce over many years in order to hoover me back to the beginning of the IDD cycle.  As the nonPD in the relationship and living in the fogginess, it worked well, sadly.  Once out of that fogginess, I called her bluff and walked out.  She immediately did what your husband did with "...doesn't want to start over with someone else" and "..wants to do marriage counseling but wants me to organise it." 

My opinion is that your husband's response to you is his foundational trait of Fear of Abandonment (FoA definition below) coming to the surface and him playing victim to flip the script on you to divert him from facing his FoA.  That imo will be a repetitive cycle and the only way out will be for you to be very strong and move forward to separate.   Imo FoA is a deep child-like overwhelming fear of facing the underdeveloped emptiness that PD's have inside of themselves.  Imo they will do whatever it takes to keep that FoA down, including denial, flipping the script, bullying, abuse and so much more. 

https://outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/fear-of-abandonment

Beachlife, its going to take YOU being the bold adult to protect you and the kids. Imo your husband is too needy and scared to be alone, and he abuses to keep everyone where he needs them to be. 

SoT

[bloomie]

Beachlife - I am really sad to hear how terribly your dear son was treated by his father. The atmosphere of risk, the damage your H is doing at the most crucial level with his family,  the blatant disrespect for those he is living with, and refusal to take full responsibility for his grown self is appalling.

It is not your responsibility to figure out the why of all of this on your H's side of the street. Therapy might be a great idea... for you and your kiddos. 

We advocate to Put Children First here at Out of the FOG.

From the article linked above:

Put Children First means making decisions based on "what is in the best interests of the children", regardless of the consequences for the parents and any other parties involved.

Your relationship with your H may be disintegrating in the face of his abuse, but your relationship with your children is life long and vitally important to protect and preserve. So far, it seems your H can rage and misbehave and the consequences to his behaviors are to all of you.

I will tell you from very difficult and personal experience, having grown up around the same type of thing, that eventually your adult children will be wondering why you didn't protect them and continued to allow them to be driven from their own homes by a father who refuses to manage himself and is hurting them.

They may already be asking how you can't see how your choices are enabling this and damaging them.

There is no good guy/bad guy here. There are two adults who have created a relationship that is toxic to the children who are trapped in the middle of it all.

If any other adult treated you and your children how you describe your H treating you all... what would you do? Is the standard inside of your home as high as it might be outside of it? Wouldn't your response be to protect and do whatever you have to to stop focusing on a man who would behave this way and shift to securing a safe home environment for you children to the best of your ability?

[Rebel13]

eventually your adult children will be wondering why you didn't protect them and continued to allow them to be driven from their own home by a father who refuses to manage himself and is hurting them.

Exactly this. So true, and so well stated. My mother didn't protect us from my raging, abusive father because she has a personality disorder and was only worried about the consequences of leaving for herself. Not to minimize how difficult it is to leave a relationship, especially financial and custody issues, but still. When will the kids come first?

[Beachlife]

Thank you everyone for your replies and advice.

My son and I have had talked a lot since the incident. My son knows I am 100% on his side and that I am seeing a counsellor and have seen a lawyer and trying to take steps to separate.

I reiterated to my son that he comes first and acknowledged the damage his dad's anger issues are doing. My son knows I am a safe space to talk to.

I would like to say though, and I know this is going to come across as defensive, that abusive situations are not easy to leave. The gaslighting, the minimising, the use of anger to control...we have a disabled son and our house has been modified for him. When I tried to separate a few years ago, my husband said we would have to sell the house. When I try and talk to him about his anger, I get blamed and he twists things around to be the victim.

It's so freaking hard and I have tried to be there for my children the whole time, telling them it's not their fault, acknowledging their dad's anger issues and his failure to take responsibility.

[Poison Ivy]

It IS hard to leave. It sounds as though you're doing a good job of protecting your children and yourself as you continue to survive.

"How can he not see his own behaviour has caused this?" Maybe he does know that his own behavior has caused this and doesn't want to admit it; maybe he doesn't know that his own behavior caused this. My spouse (now ex) admitted that his behavior was problematic; he wouldn't or couldn't change; that left me with two choices: stay in the marriage or end the marriage.

[blunk]

Beachlife, I am so sorry you and your children are having to live this way.

If you have not already, I would recommend that you read "why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men" by Lundy Bancroft.

It really helped me to understand the abuse that I was facing, and that it IS likely that the abuser is aware that their behavior is wrong. It was truly eye-opening. I was able to divorce my bpdxh, who acted in many of the same ways you describe, and I was able to keep the house. It is not easy, but it can be done.

I wish you well on the path forward.

[Rebel13]

Hi Beachlife,

I would like to say though, and I know this is going to come across as defensive, that abusive situations are not easy to leave.

I do know it's hard, and I don't mean to minimize that. My previous comment wasn't directed at you, I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. It was more of a general comment about society, the attitude I hear so often that "kids are resilient" etc., my own childhood experiences, and some observations of people I know personally who I feel are subjecting their kids to a lot of unfair treatment. I'm sure you are doing your best, and it IS really hard to separate, so I wish you the best of luck with all of that.

Here's a free PDF copy of the Lundy Bancroft book if you have a safe place to download it to.

https://archive.org/download/LundyWhyDoesHeDoThat/Lundy_Why-does-he-do-that.pdf