Therapist Appointment Tomorrow

[NBRiverGuy]

I'm sorry if I am dominating these boards over the past couple of days, but I am an anxious mess right now and at a pivotal point in my life so I'm leaning pretty heavily on this community.
I'm visiting with a therapist tomorrow to create a plan of action to end my marriage of almost 20 years to my PDw. Long story short, but I hit a point of no return last weekend after two straight days of emotional abuse, belittlement and threats, interrupted randomly at times by over-the-top love bombing. I have supportive family and friends, but I know their advice will be "just leave." It's good advice, but they do not understand things like trauma bonding and other complex damage that being in a long-term relationship with a PD does to somebody psychologically. So, I'm going to visit with a therapist tomorrow. I already explained why on the intake form, but I feel like I am on the verge of an anxiety attack just thinking about saying out loud to someone, "I am in an emotionally abusive relationship and I want out, but I don't have the courage to follow through."
When my heart starts racing, I tell myself, "I don't have to do anything until I'm ready" and "I'm the only one at this point who knows that these thoughts exist. I don't have to share them until I feel like I have a plan." Is this a healthy attitude, or am I just finding ways to avoid the issue? If anyone has any experience with therapy for similar reasons, do you have any advice on how to approach the sessions. I've been lying to myself and gaslighted by my spouse about this relationship for so many years that I'm having difficulty seeing the reality.

[square]

This board is for the purpose of providing support for folks in our type of situation. Post away. I've been cluttering up the place myself. Everyone who reads, wants to.

Your plan of seeing a therapist for an exit plan is freaking brilliant.

Your coping strategies of reminding yourself you haven't done anything you can't take back/undo is fantastic. You're walking to the edge of the cliff, but you can back away at any point. You can look down but looking isn't jumping. Have a look. Have a good look. You're not committed to a thing.

I personally found myself kind of emotionally revving up. With weight lifting, folks do a bit of "hype" before taking the weight, breathing hard and doing hype movements to get their blood flow and oxygen up. But even the hype isn't the commitment. You can hype and then just go sit down. Or you can shoulder the weight and go.

Spotters are there for your safety in case you can't complete your lift. But a lot of spotters, when they see you grinding on a hard lift, will command "up up up!" This really can help a lifter summon everything to move the weight.

So we are here, helping you hype, and if you unrack we'll be chanting "up up up!"

[Rebel13]

When my heart starts racing, I tell myself, "I don't have to do anything until I'm ready" and "I'm the only one at this point who knows that these thoughts exist. I don't have to share them until I feel like I have a plan." Is this a healthy attitude, or am I just finding ways to avoid the issue?

You are absolutely right to say these things to yourself. I started trauma-informed therapy a few months ago, and my therapist says this to me about EVERYTHING. "You get to decide." "You get to do whatever you want." "You don't have to do anything that isn't comfortable for you."

This kind of abuse, I think, cuts us off so much from our own needs, wants, wishes, etc. We get so focused on doing what the other person wants in order to stave off their temper tantrums. After a while (or, in my case, after being raised that way) it's easy to forget we even HAVE needs, wants and wishes of our own, let alone act on them. I have gotten so used to pushing myself through things, that it now seems WEIRD to be able to say in therapy, "No, I don't think I want to talk about that/do that exercise right now." But I am already seeing the effects of being self-referential in my life, and they are all good!

Best of luck with the therapy and getting yourself to a peaceful, abuse-free life.

[NBRiverGuy]

Thank you both for the words of encouragement.

Square. In regards to your brilliant weight lifting analogy, I think that I have spent the past year getting in my car and driving to the gym, but then veering into the McDonald's parking lot at the last minute. I'm just now mentally prepared to actually step foot in the gym. Might have to do a few stretches before I sit down at the bench.

We get so focused on doing what the other person wants in order to stave off their temper tantrums

This really spoke to me. I have more or less arranged my whole life over the past 15 years or so in a way that limits public embarrassment, uncomfortable family gatherings, and temper tantrums at social functions. As a result, I convinced myself that things were getting better, when in reality I just locked out the rest of the world so that it could not get to her. But every time the outside world got in, I got a harsh reminder that nothing had changed.

[NBRiverGuy]

Appointment is today. It seems like most of you post in the evening, but if anyone happens to see this, do you have any tips on how I should begin the appointment? I have limited experience with therapy and the last time I met with a therapist, I was still holding out hope for the marriage. I know none of you can tell me what to say, but should I do anything to prepare? And is it frowned upon to walk in with a few things jotted down on a sticky note just so I don't forget to mention them?

[square]

Notes are great

"I'm here because I am considering ending my marriage and would like to work through making a decision and a plan (either way)."

"I haven't made any decisions but am currently past any hope of working toward constructive change with my wife, and feel it's up to me to meet my own needs at this point."

Recommend not lay diagnosing your wife to the therapist, but certainly describe behaviors. Or you could say "I'm not a therapist and I don't know what's going on, but I've found the label 'covert narcissist' to be helpful to me in untangling what's been going on for all these very confusing years."

Good luck.

[square]

Sorry, wrote 'covert narcissist' because I thought I remembered you using that label, but I may have remembered wrong. But just as an example for whatever label you might have.

I think the big thing is just that it goes over better than marching in there and saying "my wife obviously has NPD/BPD/whatever."

[NBRiverGuy]

So helpful as usual, Square. I was wondering how to bring up the PD issue. Like you said, I'm not qualified to diagnose any disorders. However, I did write on my intake form that a close friend of ours first shared some literature with me on covert narcissism and that after doing much reading, my wife checks the boxes for a majority of the related behaviors. But, I like the way you worded it better. I agree. Marching in and proclaiming my wife to be a narcissist sounds like something a narcissist would say.   

[NBRiverGuy]

"I'm here because I am considering ending my marriage and would like to work through making a decision and a plan (either way)."

"I haven't made any decisions but am currently past any hope of working toward constructive change with my wife, and feel it's up to me to meet my own needs at this point."

Both of these statements express my feelings perfectly. I'm feeling less nervous just having a good opening. That's always the hardest part for me when starting a session.

[LemonLime]

I now describe my sib as having "lots of signs of emotional immaturity, like temper tantrums and rages".

Usually people are more receptive to that and less judgy of me.  Not that I talk about my sib much anymore.  But when I do, people seem receptive to those terms.  I think it's because they have probably had someone like that in their life at some point and they understand how frustrating and exhausting that type of person is.

Of course they probably don't REALLY "get it", but it's a way of opening a conversation that doesn't make people instantly defend the narc. 

[NBRiverGuy]

Update: I visited with my new therapist yesterday after work. It was pretty overwhelming for me but also cathartic. I had never honestly admitted anything that I have been dealing with for the past 20 years out loud. She just let me talk for about 40 minutes straight. I did not know I was capable of that.
Huge thanks to Square and Rebel for helping me with expectations and how to open the session.

Square. I said exactly what you wrote at the beginning of the session: "I'm here because I am considering ending my marriage of 18 years and would like to work through making a decision and a plan. I haven't made any decisions but am currently past any hope of working toward constructive change with my wife, and feel it's up to me to meet my own needs at this point." She said that was a very healthy approach and that she would like to help me work through it. Then I unloaded my brain on the poor lady, lol. After I finished, she asked if my wife had been evaluated for Bi-Polar or BPD. So, it's like you said. I didn't have to mention PDs to the therapist. She came to that conclusion on her own. I told her that uPDw had been attending therapy sessions for years with the same counselor, but to my knowledge had not been officially diagnosed. She said it might be beneficial for me to schedule a session with wife's therapist to fill her in on things that wife wasn't accurately reporting so that she can get her the help she needs before I make any life changing decisions that might push her over the edge. Said I was open to that if it was okay with both wife and her therapist. Session over.

I got home and my wife asked where I was. I told her that I scheduled an appointment with a therapist to work some things out. She immediately wanted to know "what did you talk about? Did you tell her about how your family does this and that? Did she agree that you need to learn how to compromise and everything is always on your terms?" I very calmly said, "I am going to have to set a personal boundary here. What was said in my therapy session is between me and my therapist and I do not have to share it with you. If there are things in our marriage that you think I should bring up at my next session, I am happy to do that but I will not share everything that was said." She said, "Oh. So you get to know everything that I say in my sessions, but you don't tell me anything that was said in yours?" I said, "I have never once asked you to divulge anything that was said in one of your sessions. You volunteer that information. In fact, I have said repeatedly that you do NOT have to share anything with me. That is your safe space." She considered that for a minute and I think she realized that was true. Then she said, "Well, you just lie to yourself all the time and only tell your side of the story. It's a waste of time and money if you're not going to be honest." I said, "I'll tell you what. At my next session, I'll ask my therapist if she minds if you take one of my appointments. That way, you can tell her everything you think she needs to know before we get too deep into things and I won't be there to filter it." She LOVED that idea. That poor therapist doesn't know what she's in for.

Anyways. I feel like I'm working toward something for the first time, although I know it's going to be a long road ahead.

[square]

Ha, that is not going to go over like your wife thinks.

I assume you are considering talking to your wife's therapist in hopes of her having professional support if you decide to exit.

You could do a swap where she sees your therapist and you see hers. But I think it might not work as well as it may seem. I like the idea of your wife talking to your therapist, as your therapist can learn a lot and support you better. And your wife MAY back off on your therapy sessions - but she probably won't and frankly may push harder.

As for you talking to her therapist, I'm thinking:

- only if you've decided to separate
- only shortly before (within a week) of you making the move
- this is critical: the purpose is ONLY to set up support for your wife. It's NOT to set any record straight, not to hint at possible PD or bipolar, none of that.

It's "I'm concerned because my wife sometimes makes references to self harm or suicide. I wasn't sure if my wife discusses this in sessions, so I wanted you to be aware and able to provide support if she needs it."

Therapist may ask if you are planning to leave or have a particular reason for concern. No. You just wanted them to be aware.

And the ultimate purpose is to meet YOUR need, allowing you to care for yourself knowing you did the caring and responsible thing of setting up replacement support to fill the void.

[NBRiverGuy]

Yes. My primary concern is for her safety and possibly mine if/when I decide to leave. She has not been physically violent towards me in the past, but she has been especially unhinged and erratic over the past few weeks and I honestly don't know what she is capable of.

I have absolutely no intention of setting the record straight and I don't care at all about being right or wrong in this mess. 50/50 Rule, right? I have met with her therapist a few times in joint sessions. I think I have said everything that I need to say on my end, minus the recent addition of suicide threats. Furthermore, my wife has been seeing this therapist for 10 years. If she doesn't suspect something is off at this point, nothing I say is going to change her mind.

I think I painted a pretty clear picture for the therapist yesterday, but I would like for her to meet my wife so that she can see the behaviors for herself and so that my wife will maybe realize that I am not trying to hide anything from my therapist.

[NBRiverGuy]

I now describe my sib as having "lots of signs of emotional immaturity, like temper tantrums and rages".

I used to make excuses for my wife before coming here. Bloomie actually gave me a great piece of advice which was "Allow people to live with the consequences of their behavior." If she throws a fit in public now, I just let her do it. She owns her behavior, I own mine. If she tries to draw me into the drama, I go MC on her. I used to try and calm her down. Now I just remove myself from the situation. And if someone asks me after she finishes her tantrum, "Is your wife okay?" I say, "I don't know. Why don't you go ask her."

[Rebel13]

Then she said, "Well, you just lie to yourself all the time and only tell your side of the story. It's a waste of time and money if you're not going to be honest."

OMG classic projection! It's like they have a playbook or something that they all operate by.

I'm so glad the appointment went well and that you are setting boundaries for yourself!!! You are doing great.