Why you chose and were chosen

[square]

To expand on SoT's comment on why he chose his wife and why she chose him, I thought it could be interesting to have a thread where we share our thoughts on how we chose and were chosen.

Though SoT already shared, he is certainly welcome to expand in more detail if he wishes.

I will share my own thoughts later today or tomorrow.

[notrightinthehead]

I fell for my man because he was so handsome. He had a terrible childhood and I wanted to love him back to health. He was charming, a bit of a bad boy, well travelled and he wanted - like me to go abroad. He rode a motorbike, like me, and he told me, I was the best thing that happened to him. All this sounds very superficial to me now. At that age I was so concerned about what others thought of me, how they saw me. In todays world one could say, my self esteem was dependent on how many likes I got. Looking back at my younger self, I wish I could talk to her and help her see how this outlook on life sets her up for insecurity and dependency.
Why he chose me, I can only assume for the same reasons. I enhanced his prestige. And he wanted someone to take care of him, to cater to all his needs.

[NBRiverGuy]

Why I Chose:
I was young, she was gorgeous, she love bombed me hard at the beginning (i.e. "you are the smartest person I've ever met." "you are the nicest person I know." "you are the best I've ever been with." "I always wanted someone who looked just like you." "you are the funniest person I've ever known."). If there was a compliment to be bestowed, she bestowed it upon me. At 22 years old, when your ego needs stroking, those words are more valuable than gold. She was also a lot of fun at the beginning. She loved to go out to bars and listen to bands. She was fun at parties and was great at first impressions with friends and co-workers.

Why I Was Chosen:
I would listen to endless tales of her childhood trauma and rub her head as she cried. I would try to play the therapist in "Good Will Hunting" saying, "It's not your fault. It's not your fault." I didn't notice at the time that her behavior was becoming more and more controlling and that I would bend to her will because I saw her as fragile and I did not want to set off another crying spell. So I would buy her little gifts to cheer her up after she had one of her, often random, episodes of depression. I remember specifically in the beginning that I had plans with friends one night. She got "sick" and convinced me to cancel my plans to stay home and take care of her. I was more than willing to be her knight in shining armor. She realized early on that she could use tears to manipulate me. When that stopped working, it became fits of rage, often in public.

[zad7242]

Why I chose:

I chose my current uBPDw because I didn't know how to handle the grief of the loss of my first wife to cancer. It was only 3 years after her death and I felt like I couldn't be alone nor raise my two small children without them having a mom. I have low self-esteem, and she was so into me and loved my children so much. She does have a loving heart most of the time. I ignored the red flags and the knots in the stomach, which were my bodies way of telling me I was making a big mistake because of my fears and insecurities.

Why she chose me:

I am still learning her dynamics but I from what she has admitted to me recently, she chose me, because she needed to get away from her family and their abusiveness- even though at the time she made me feel guilty for not wanting to move near her family. She thought I was a vanilla, reliable Christian man and provider, that she could live the stereotypical American dream with. She didn't tell me she had substance addiction issues, but just that she wanted a fresh start. Now she says my family and I are just as bad as her family, and I get to be just another abuser in her perpetual role as victim.

[Queenfrog]

Ah. I chose my uPDh because we "clicked" intellectually. He has an amazing mind. I wanted to spend all my time hanging out with him. His background and life experiences, so different from my own, were (and are) interesting and exciting. I thought I could teach him to experience joy in life after an extremely difficult childhood.

I had a little pattern of going with guys who came from less comfortable backgrounds than my own - not sure why. Maybe I wanted to be a rescuer, or maybe I was just slumming. Maybe I lacked the self-esteem to pursue relationships in my native social circle. Choosing him was a commitment to being an outsider.

He chose me because I was young (we are 16 years apart) and attractive (he said many times that he married me because of my butt) and he thought he could shape me. I was smart but naive, he was streetwise and worldly. Maybe he lacked the self-esteem to go with someone who he could see as closer to an equal, someone who would stand up to him. He was practically homeless at the time, so the fact that I had an apartment and some family stability probably factored into it too.

[Queenfrog]

Interesting to note the "terrible childhood" theme that is developing in this thread. We're the ones who ran toward the damaged person instead of running away from them.

[NBRiverGuy]

Interesting to note the "terrible childhood" theme that is developing in this thread. We're the ones who ran toward the damaged person instead of running away from them.

I would guess that we are rescuers, every one. The PDs are drawn to the rescuers because they need to be rescued. When I first started dating my wife, she had a roommate who did not fall for her bs. She wasn't mean to her by any standard. She just didn't fall the the manipulation. At the time, I thought to myself, "Man. That roommate is so cold. How can she just turn her back on w when she is so upset." That's my rescuer personality. Roommate did not possess that unfortunate trait, so when she saw the breakdown, she just said, "Oh. This again. All right. I'll be back when it passes," and leave the room. Oh, how I should have followed her lead.

[zad7242]

Interesting to note the "terrible childhood" theme that is developing in this thread. We're the ones who ran toward the damaged person instead of running away from them.

Yes! My late wife had an NPD mother and absent father, i.e. terrible childhood too. She used to cut herself years before I met her. Difference between her and my current uPDw is that she had done the work to heal for years before we married. She still had symptoms of C-PTSD but never projected stuff onto me. I was a loner in college and my only friend there was a fellow loner who suffered from undiagnosed bi-polar, I followed him around on campus like a puppy, never stated my own desires, etc. I do gravitate towards those who have no one else. Only time in my life, I did not follow this pattern was when I was in the military. I had several quality friendships there that I maintain over 20 years later.

[MaxedOut]

Queenfrog, I have the opposite in terms of childhood, but episodes of Dr. Ramani's podcast with other folks from nurturing families with healthy attachment have helped me understand it can come with certain vulnerabilities. Stuff like default to trust and assume good motivations, assumption that everyone wants reciprocity and mutual support in relationships, high empathy and compasssion and deisre to be helpful, belief that lack of understanding of where each person is coming from resolves stuff. I look through the lens of vulnerabilities and see beleifs around love that are too unconditional for partnerships, modeling after a reliably supportive and loving parent but in a relationship where that is not even, and in my case not a lot of modeling for healthy conflict due to very low conflict overall.

[SonofThunder]

When I started research on my FOO, I had already educated myself on PD behaviors enough not to focus on better understanding my difficult relationship with my NPDfather. 

It was not my NPDf that caused this gazelle to choose a hungry gazelle-eating cougar of a wife in which to share a savannah. It was my caretaking (Fjelstad) mother whom I modeled.  She became the focus of my studies. How she became a 'caretaker' was what interested me so deeply.  I looked back multiple generations before her and found the grooming that turned her into the perfect gazelle for my NPD lion of a father. 

If I modeled my father, I would have never been selected by my needy, crafty and hungry wife.  What I believed to be the model wife, mother, downright angel of a woman in my mother, turned out to be my modeling downfall.  I modeled my mother and married a female covert version of my overt NPD father. Then spent 30+ years in the savannah getting constantly gnawed on by my physically beautiful, never satisfied hungry cat with whom I chose to live. 

Caretaking is very important to understand, so we do not model a caretaker or be a model-caretaker for our children to model, just enabling the terrible water-hole cycle to continue. It's US that need to change. 

SoT

[NBRiverGuy]

It was my caretaking (Fjelstad) mother whom I modeled.  She became the focus of my studies. How she became a 'caretaker' was what interested me so deeply. 

That is a lightbulb moment for me. While I do not believe that my father is an NPD, my mother was definitely the caretaker in the house and waited on him hand and foot. They were from the day and age in which the husband goes out to work all day and the wife takes care of everything else. At dinner time, she would prepare his plate and bring his food to him at the table. She paid all of the bills, cleaned the house, did all of the laundry, made sure the lawn was manicured, etc. She continues to serve my father to this day. I have taken on my mother's role in my household. I always wanted my father's approval. He gave me plenty of positive attention growing up, so I am not complaining in that regard, but I was always worried that I would disappoint him and I never knew exactly where I stood with him. I take care of my wife in much the same way my mom takes care of my dad. This is a lot to unpack. Interesting that I never saw it before.

[SonofThunder]

I have taken on my mother's role in my household.

I take care of my wife in much the same way my mom takes care of my dad. This is a lot to unpack. Interesting that I never saw it before.

When the previously delicious servant-gazelle at the water-hole becomes aware and alters its behavior to better care for itself, it then loses its flavor and favor to the hungry PD cat.  That causes whole new levels of pain to arise in the savanna.   

The cat will surely feed because it must, but it may turn even further covert/overt in its desperate needs (and sharp abilities) to feed. Eventually, if the changing gazelle becomes skilled enough with the toolbox, making it extremely difficult for the cat to even obtain a meal, then the 2nd D = Discard in the IDD will set in to try and break the gazelle to submit.

That is my experience in the chose-and-chosen process and eventually I had to make the most difficult choice for myself under great duress; boldly depart to another savanna that this gazelle can call home.

Yes, NBRiverGuy, like you it was a kind, calm, grass-eating gazelle of a mother that I modeled.

SoT

[Poison Ivy]

I chose my then husband and he chose me because we liked each other. We still like each other, several years post divorce, although not as much (on my end, at least).

True as this is, it occurred to me many years into our 31-year marriage that while I had thought I was marrying someone like my father (specifically, a good provider), my husband was more like my mother (specifically, both have had almost life-long mental illnesses). This was a somewhat horrifying and embarrassing realization!

[SeaBreeze]

I chose my first husband because I mistook his arrogance for confidence and his anti-social personality for a freethinker. I chose his "perfect family" for being the one I'd always wanted and failed to recognize them for the PD cult that they were. He chose me because 1. I put up with his abuse and 2. his family chose me for him, their Golden Child, and he wanted to please them. His family chose me because I was the perfect recruit for their cult.

I chose second husband because he lovebombed me and presented himself as the exact opposite of first husband in every way. Once the mask dropped, I stayed thinking I'd get back the man I fell in love with if I just tried harder to be a good partner to him. He said he chose me because I was smart and beautiful and motivated, but I think he wanted to rescue me, a damsel in distress, because then I'd be easier to control. He decided I was pretty dumb and my aspirations were dumb; he did still say I was attractive, but that seemed to be all he valued about me toward the end, like a dusty trophy on a shelf to admire on occasion.

I was ripe for the picking with both marriages thanks to a PD mother who normalized dysfunction.

[square]

Poison Ivy, why do/did you and your ex like each other?

[square]

Why I chose

I think one thing was that I felt stifled by many people in terms of wanting to figure out how things worked and assemble a framework for the world. My mom in particular would kind of shush me if I shared my thoughts, and other than a few friends from ages 13-19, I felt like nobody wanted to talk about anything of substance.

H is a listener and would draw out my ideas by asking questions. My teen friends tolerated me, but nobody would actually draw me out and challenge me like he did. There is a trope that men hate listening to their wives talk. But when I withdrew from H years ago, I found out for sure that he wanted me to talk, specifically about my dumb ideas about the world, because he made it clear (in angry ways) that he hated that it stopped.

The fact that he came from a difficult childhood made him interesting to me because he cared about important topics like morality and integrity. He was interested in what motivates people and had a lot of insights that I added to my framework. I found him to be very intelligent and insightful.

Finally, he had a high tolerance for people's foibles. This was very important to me and I was aware of it at the time. I liked that he was able to see the value in folks who irritated me, and I wanted to learn to do that myself.

But that last trait changed, he became dark and came to hate people. Early on, he still had an optimism but it ran out.

Why he chose

He is very anxious and I am very soothing irl. My voice is soft and my approach is very "this is going to be just fine, here's Pan A and if we have to fall back on Plan B that'll be no problem!" I helped him through various things, and he has never had anybody looking out for him before. His parents focused on their own problems and he was expected to sink or swim, even while dealing with the trauma of witnessing periodic physical abuse not to mention ongoing general toxicity. Sadly, he came to take my soothing ways for granted, demanded more and more, and stopped any form of reciprocation. He seemed to feel I was invincible and thus owed him infinite help.

Similarly, he liked that I'm a problem solver. I'm not just soothing, I have solutions. He came to expect that I could and should solve everything, even things well out of my purview or control. I would have thought that he would be happy to have this resource, and I do love to solve problems, but instead of feeling like "my wife is great, she always has my back, we are a team, I don't know what I'd do without her," he felt like "ugh why won't she ever help me" because I could only solve 98% of his problem.

Am I a rescuer? I don't know. I like solving problems. But I like them to stay solved. I don't feel like my value is based on being needed by anyone, I just enjoy solving something (and keeping it that way).

However, I do have a prior (nonromantic) relationship with my teen friend (who died), and I may have been seeking a better outcome.

[NBRiverGuy]

H is a listener and would draw out my ideas by asking questions. My teen friends tolerated me, but nobody would actually draw me out and challenge me like he did. There is a trope that men hate listening to their wives talk. But when I withdrew from H years ago, I found out for sure that he wanted me to talk, specifically about my dumb ideas about the world, because he made it clear (in angry ways) that he hated that it stopped.

The fact that he came from a difficult childhood made him interesting to me because he cared about important topics like morality and integrity. He was interested in what motivates people and had a lot of insights that I added to my framework. I found him to be very intelligent and insightful.

Interesting. I had dated ditzy sorority girls up until I met my wife. When I tried to have a real conversation with them, they got bored and wanted to change the subject to the latest tv drama. W didn't really understand the deeper things that I was talking about, but she was great at pretending to be interested and asking the right questions. And she would regularly say "you're the smartest person I ever met." Maybe that makes me a narcissist, but I loved the fact that she was into me on an intellectual level and seemed to want to learn about things.

[Associate of Daniel]

This is such an interesting and helpful topic.  I suspect that, in my case, my answers will change or grow as the years go by.  For today though,  here goes:

Why I chose him:  I'm the youngest in my family and am considered to be the "dumb" one.  All of my FOO members are extremely bright academically and very high achievers.  I've always been considered by them to be "sensitive", not academic, not able to cope, not capable.  I'm definitely not a "high achiever".  When uNPD exH entered my life, he treated me in much the same way.  I guess I believed my FOO and him, and I guess I felt "safe" because he came across as being similar to them. 

The hook for me was that I was 29, had never had a man look at me even sideways, and to boot, he professed to be, and seemed to be living the life of, a christian.  I was naive enough to think that because he chose me, he must be the man I was to spend the rest of my life with.

He professed to believe all the same things that I did, to want all the same things that I did, to enjoy all the things that I did etc.  Classic mirroring, along with love bombing.

Why he chose me:  I'm not exactly sure.  On the surface I think he just wanted me to be his mum - do his washing and cook his meals.

I think also, because I thought he was more intelligent than me, I believed that everything he said was right, despite having niggling doubts.  So I probably came across as being compliant and therefore a good source of supply.

I was so innocent and naive.

But, I try not to have any regrets.  If I hadn't married him my beautiful ds18 would never have been born.  God needed him to be born and I can't imagine my life without him.  It doesn't bear thinking about.

I'm also now in a position to help others in similar situations.  I've grown to become fairly discerning (I hope) and I value the lessons so hard won.

AOD

[SonofThunder]

Hi Square, your writeup on this thread topic you started is very interesting!  Everyone's posts here have been captivating to read. 

Thanks for starting the thread!

SoT

[Rebel13]

Ditto, this is a great thread! You all are so full of insight!

I like solving problems. But I like them to stay solved. I don't feel like my value is based on being needed by anyone, I just enjoy solving something (and keeping it that way).

LOL, me too! That must be why I like you so much.