Schemas

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This article was interesting because it listed the general schemas - core beliefs - of each PD. I pasted each of them below.

These are of course generic to each PD type. What schemas would you suggest for the individual PD(s) in your life?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/up-and-running/202201/10-core-beliefs-of-personality-disorders

ASPD

"Rules are for fools. Nobody looks out for me; I'm looking out for number one and doing whatever is necessary to get what I want."


AvPD

"I'm so inept, undesirable, and stupid that no one would ever want to be with me. My undesirable characteristics are irrepressible and easily detected, and therefore I'll always be seen as 'less-than.'"


BPD

"I'm a victim, you're my savior. You're either entirely accepting of me or entirely rejecting me, period."


DPD

"I'm incompetent and incapable, so rely on fastening myself to others, so they can care for me and make my decisions."


HPD

"Unless I dramatically seek attention, I'll be invisible and forgotten and never feel cared for."


NPD

"Status, wealth and power trump all other values, and others could never meet my expectations."


OCPD

"Failure is unacceptable, and in order to not fail, I must be very focused on control of myself and my environment, including people."


PPD

"People will invariably, intentionally, betray, or otherwise take advantage of me. It always pays to be wary of others."


Schizoid

"The world, especially dealing with charged emotions and other people, is overwhelming. I can't juggle all the stimulation; an insular life, unplugged of emotion, is much more manageable."


Schizotypal

"I don't understand the world around me. It's better to secede and create my own world to live in."

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I don't know if my H just has fleas or what. But I feel he has traits most closely matching PPD (preoccupation with  perceived malicious motives with a focus on exploitation) with some BPD thrown in (fear of rejection and abandonment, black and white thinking). Here is a schema I think could fit his perspective:

"People will maliciously exploit me, which I don't deserve, and they will inevitably abandon me, which deep down I feel I do deserve. No matter what I do, there is something working against me. The evil in the world needs to be punished."

[walking on broken glass]

"People will maliciously exploit me, which I don't deserve, and they will inevitably abandon me, which deep down I feel I do deserve. No matter what I do, there is something working against me. The evil in the world needs to be punished."

This fits my PD sister perfectly!

[notrightinthehead]

When it's destilled in one sentence like that my h would qualify as ASPD.

[xredshoesx]

I find the ASPD one interesting.  what happens when the 'to get what I want' clause is traded for 'to survive'?

"Rules are for fools. Nobody looks out for me; I'm looking out for number one and doing whatever is necessary to get what I want."

[Call Me Cordelia]

I would agree with that, redshoes. But in my experience, "to survive" and "what I want" are really the same thing. At least my emotionally immature relatives really could not tell the difference between needs and wants. And they had the impulse spending debt to prove it.

Um, it's actually a bit uncanny to me that the BPD core belief ends in, "Period." Because my uPD father would end sentences with, "Period," constantly!!! It was something of a running joke among my siblings. We would count the "periods" while we were trapped in a lecture and compare our counts afterwards. Something to do while disassociating but keeping up the safe appearance of engagement. It really captures the black and white thinking and splitting aspects of the disorder. With the self always being right, of course.

These statements ring true to what I would have amateur-diagnosed my parents with. I believe my father fits ASPD, BPD, NPD, and OCPD. Mother: BPD, NPD, OCPD, DPD.

The Avoidant statement is interesting to me. I wonder how often AvPD is concurrent with other cluster B disorders. Because the grandiose false self would keep this schema subconscious, but the core belief as described here as the true self being permanently and unforgivably flawed is all part and parcel of cluster B. I guess the difference is in how it manifests.

[MaxedOut]

Yep, BPD fits well: "I'm a victim, you're my savior. You're either entirely accepting of me or entirely rejecting me, period."

With a bit of PPD. A huge focus is about no one ever caring about her as much as she did for them, can't make people care, splitting being about various betrayals. I think it's that BPD allegiance, black-and-white victimhood played out over time and worsened by worsening bipolar/schizoaffective issues.

What's interesting to me is how commonly these different core wounds play out in their expression in relationships. I think due to a more universal core and the emotional maturity stunting plus basic operant conditioning on what worked to get needs met in early years.

It's all pretty sad. And I think helps wrap one's head around there being a basic difference in "operating systems" for someone with significant traits. This isn't a thing like non-PD people with issues around insecurities, or anger, or communication. I think a lot of us, especially chosen relationship people, sort of figured it was like that.

[SonofThunder]

My stbx is imo a mix of npd, ppd and bpd traits, determined by my experiences with her for decades.  I personally believe in a mixed recipe and so then multiple 'core-beliefs' of this post would apply.

I like that Dr Ramani uses the term narcissist in most of her teachings. Since I believe that self is always the main focus which guides the PD's motives. So then imo self-focused, out of balance narcissistic traits would be a foundation that the other PD type traits build upon.

For example using my experiences; my stbx loves possessing things and living in ways that reflect high society status combined with beauty, regardless of financial realities.  She's also extremely paranoid she is a high target of potential theft or sexual assault because she believes people desire to apprehend what is not theirs.  If she believed that I was somehow restricting her constant bar-raising desires to achieve those reflections for herself, or if I was behaving or carrying myself in ways that misaligned with her desires for herself or us as a couple, she would manipulate to achieve.  If unsuccessful at low/medium levels of her efforts to achieve, or felt cornered by inability to achieve, she would then escalate at me in BPD traits and victimhood. All of that has self as a foundational trait, but includes traits of npd, ppd and bpd.

SoT

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The Avoidant statement is interesting to me. I wonder how often AvPD is concurrent with other cluster B disorders. Because the grandiose false self would keep this schema subconscious, but the core belief as described here as the true self being permanently and unforgivably flawed is all part and parcel of cluster B. I guess the difference is in how it manifests.

Interesting. It does seem like overlap is probably the norm.

I don't know anything but I know someone who I've wondered if AvPD could apply. He really does avoid everything he can. He is unable to say no or push back on people. Is single and lives with his dad at 30. Don't know anything about his mother except she died a few years ago, his dad seems decent but slightly controlling. But the thing is, patient and kind people frequently end up yelling at him out of frustration because his inability to say no or tell someone something they don't want to hear makes problems for the people around him.

At work, he often just disappears. Customers and coworkers get frustrated. But he's so passive he doesn't even try to please anyone, he seems to feel it's inevitable that people will be upset and seems to feel no agency to change anything.

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What's interesting to me is how commonly these different core wounds play out in their expression in relationships. I think due to a more universal core and the emotional maturity stunting plus basic operant conditioning on what worked to get needs met in early years.

It's all pretty sad. And I think helps wrap one's head around there being a basic difference in "operating systems" for someone with significant traits. This isn't a thing like non-PD people with issues around insecurities, or anger, or communication. I think a lot of us, especially chosen relationship people, sort of figured it was like that.

I certainly did spend a long time assuming this was just a matter of communication or whatever. And I do understand that even healthy relationships have problems and unresolved frustrations. But with PD there is a sort of delusion deep down in their thinking.

I learned from reading a 100 year old text with a group of case studies we would now label as factitious disorder and the cluster B personality disorders, that "borderline" was used to describe people who were borderline delusional. Because we conceputualize being delusional as seeing bugs on the walls or aliens or other more bizarre things, PDs seem only "borderline" delusional since the nature of their delusions seem to be just a greater degree of what most of us experience one way or another (that we are great, or persecuted, or whatever).

But yes, it seems like there is something in there that is more than just a matter of degree, more than just a high degree of overconfidence or insecurity or anger.

One piece seems to be broken empathy. This can warp reality because there is no ability to balance - to say "well, I've had a hard day, but you have too, so let's just figure this out later" or "this isn't everything I wanted but I guess it's fair because it'sa compromise for both of us."

[MaxedOut]

Yeah, Square, the "musical genre" so to speak presents differently and the specific "notes" hot with BOD versus NPD versus APD and such are different but damned of the lyrics and the tune aren't all very similar. That's helpful, I think at this point, as it means stuff like Dr. Ramani's work still mostly resonates as that toxic relationship pattern part is much the same. At yeah lack of empathy, fear of abandonment/rejection, and insecurity/not being good enough/being "seen" seem like the deeper stuff across disorders (and disordered attachment).

[Catothecat]

The one for NPD gives me pause.  From what I've seen in NPDs I've known, their core belief seems to be that they're a fraud and everything they do is designed to disguise or distract from that "fact."  As in, "I'm really really insecure about myself so therefore will create a self that's unassailable."

[walking on broken glass]

From what I've seen in NPDs I've known, their core belief seems to be that they're a fraud and everything they do is designed to disguise or distract from that "fact."  As in, "I'm really really insecure about myself so therefore will create a self that's unassailable."

That's true!
I was thinking of something similar: "I am really insecure about myself so I will try to gain power and control over everyone, making them feel small in the process".