Discernment Needed

[Pig wrestler]

Hello Everyone,

It's been a minute. Just want to give y'all an update and ask for some help with a few situations (I'm too close to this and have a hard time discerning intentions and when I'm being manipulated).

Ok, I am still separated from my uNPDw and kiddos. I am in a friend's rental house right now. It has been on my heart to find a different place to live so I started searching. One thing I have going for me is our family went nomad for about 2.5 years. It was a great nightmare but we still have the fifth wheel. I started asking around at RV parks for a place to live and if possible, to work my rent and utilities off (doing maintenance and odd jobs). Low and behold, the Lord does answer prayer. Not only did they ask me in for an interview, but I ended up getting an RV spot for the 5th wheel, all paid for, and they offered me 20 hours per week with pay. This of course is on top of my FT job but its manageable. Ok, once I got news of my new living situation I had to tell her. I told her the situation, that it would not cost a dime and it was something I needed to do. She agreed to allow me to use the fifth wheel.

Ever since I told her I would be moving out of the rental house into the 5th wheel, she has turned up the charm. Here are some examples: I went over to our house for a scheduled visit to have breakfast with the girls (and of course she is always there) and then work on the yard. She brings me into the bedroom and apologizes. She tells me clearly she is the one to blame for all the events that have transpired. She did use the word "control" (like I have tried to control you...) but that was about all she would elude to other than a lot of I love you's, you make our family complete, etc. She said we could go to my counselor (who does not recommend couples counseling). She said it would be 2 against 1 and you could get all of this "stuff" out in the open. My only reply was, I'll think about it. A few days later she shows up at the rental house, unannounced, comes into the house un-invited and brings beer (which she hates when I drink and some of our past battles have been about having a single beer) and an energy drink (which she has battled me for the past 15 years on) and eggs since we have chickens. Ha! She says she is wife 2.0, the new version who will allow me to have a fridge full of beer and all the energy drinks in the world...I don't respond and then she goes into how the girls are developing a sense of abandonment and if I only knew what their hearts were telling her. Since then, I have talked with the girls alone, explained in a watered down version of why I cannot live with Mom right now. They seemed to take it in stride.

Now for the grand-daddy... Today is Valentines Day. I made the girls chocolate covered strawberries, bought them balloons and wrote them each a card and delivered it this morning, early before anyone was up. Well I didn't quite get out in time. She woke up and thanked me profusely for the strawberries and the other things. She quite literally threw herself at me. I wont go into detail but she moved my hands around. It was quite uncomfortable. I got out of the house and then she shows up my work bearing gifts: a picture collage and a map of Texas (something I have always wanted). Then uNPDw told me she emailed my boss a few days ago and asked if it was ok for ME to go to daily Mass with her and the girls during the lunch hour. My boss is in the dark so he said of course, we don't have any meetings, he can go. I'm at work, the door is open for all to hear, the girls are sitting in the car waiting for me to go with them. To not make a scene, I comply.

I feel this stupor after being with her, much like the past many years of marriage. It is really hard to see the truth. Please spell it out for me. Thanks everyone 😊

[square]

Hey there,

I have just two thoughts.

To preface those two thoughts, I will add that I am a marshmallow.

1) After I announced I had an apartment and was moving out, at one point I got the "I'm completely different now, totally new husband" speech. It lasted maybe 18 hours?

2) She was violent toward you. From where I stand, there is no coming back from that. You know what she is capable of. Next time she is in a similar mood, violence will be an option for her again. She believes it's okay under certain circumstances - like when you don't comply.

[Rebel13]

Hi Pig Wrestler, I feel for you. This is so tough. All of the below is just my opinion based on my experience with my mom and a few other narcissists in my past:

This is classic love bombing. She realizes you are pulling away and she's trying to get you back under control. If you give in, things will go back to the unpleasant norm so fast your head will spin.

People who have been in this situation with a partner will probably have more specific comments, but one thing that jumped out at me is, even though she's trying her hardest to win you over, she's STILL busting boundaries and behaving inappropriately (IMHO). It's a boundary violation for her to contact your boss (barring an emergency like you've been in an accident and can't make it to work). It's completely inappropriate and manipulative for her to invade your personal space by placing your hands on her body without your explicit, enthusiastic consent. Someone who really cared for you would want to make sure you were interested in physical contact and would initiate that contact gently, maybe through words, maybe with a hug or hand-holding, NOT with one-sided forced groping.

It sounds like you are being such a great dad and human being, taking care of logistics, taking on a second job (!) to make things work out in this situation that SHE has created. (Congrats on that, by the way, and make sure to take care of you and your girls as best you can despite your new responsibilities.)

Your story here makes my skin crawl and my stomach ache -- flashback I guess! I wish you good luck in figuring out what YOU want, what is comfortable for YOU, what works for YOU, and doing your best to get that. For example, you don't HAVE to go to mass despite her setting up witnesses and an uncomfortable situation for you at work. If anyone questions you, you can say, "Thanks for your concern, but that's a personal matter."

All the best to you.

[notrightinthehead]

Wow! You are being love bombed massively. And you have grown because it makes you feel uncomfortable. You know it's not going to last. How about putting forward some demands of your own? If she loves you so much, and your biggest wish is to spend more alone time with your girls, will she grant you your biggest wish?
Try denying her something - watch for the response. Sadly she holds your girls hostage and successfully uses them to get you to do her bidding. Are you working on a plan to change that?
I suggest you go back to the Toolbox and study medium chill and grey rock again. You can also search for medium chill on youtube there are some role play videos available.
You have the right feeling and you are on a good track - this change will only last so long as you are trying to free yourself.

[hhaw]

Hi, PW:

I want to add ....
If you fall for your stbx's lovebombs, it's likely going to negatively impact your ability to be taken seriously by police, family, friends, the kids and third party onlookers, bc inconsistent messaging from you creates confusion.

Your stbx relies on confusion to muddy the waters and appear innocent and the "victim" of your confusion.

When you take her back, typically evidence goes away and you're seen as not knowing your mind, crying wolf, making mountains of mole hills, bc why would you take her back IF your claims are true?

Also, some ignorant/confused people might ask what you DID to stbx to MAKE her act crazy?

In order to avoid adding, time, expense and more trauma I suggest:
1.  Examining your evidence.
2. Firm a narrative, around that evidence, to use consistently and without fail, to move yourself through and out of this divorce/separation turmoil with stbx.
3. Hold the stbx accountable at every turn with regard to documenting, reporting and requiring she experience consequences of any and all PD behavior.
3. Report any illegal offense to the police in order to properly document.
4.  Never miss opportunities to legally record and otherwise document your situation.
5.  If you can't use some evidence in court, it can still help court officers/attorneys/third parties  and police understand the reality of your situation.
6. Sending inconsistent messages about your situation can expand everyone's suffering, particularly your children's and your own.
7.  Expect your stbx to escalate her unstable and manipulative behaviors and accept things will get much worse, before they get better, IME.
8. Accept you can't protect your children from the PD behaviors.
9. Focus on mitigating trauma to your children and offering a safe environment where they can be honest, rest and depend on without fail.
10.  In all the chaos, remember to look your children in the eye, be truly present with them and cultivate joy mindfully, bc the PDstbx's chaos can take all your focus and energy if you let it.
11. Secure important belongings, bc stbx will likely use them to gain compliance at some point.  Family heirlooms and documents, etc....photis, art.
12.  Cultivate a small group of trusted supporters (who get your situation.) Make a logical plan and depend on them to keep you level or return to level, along with the good poster's on this board. Don't waste energy trying to convince skeptics and stbx's flying monkeys, who already have a narrative in mind, regardless of your evidence.

13.  Protect your evidence.
14. File your evidence and make copies....I put together notebooks with topics such as Emails,safety,visitation, meds and recorded calls/conversations, which had to be transcribed at my expense.

The most helpful evidence will depend on your audience...often different people care about different things, to different degrees. Expect it.

I'll end with this..... you'll find it easier to speak and be heard IF you
Drop expectations...
Speak without judgement....
Resist telling people what to do,think or feel....
Leave space for listeners to come to their own conclusions,as people can and will punish you and your children for how you speak and what you say, IME.

When speaking to court officers, sometimes pretending you're addressing a nervous bird, or small child, can help keep one on track, bc becoming unhinged takes attention away from the PD and can make you appear like part of the problem, IME....same as inconsistent messaging....so look at your evidence, form a solid and probable narrative to base your case and
Limit
The
Stbx's access and ability to manufacture chaos, confusion and EVIDENCE against YOU.

Once that's established as fact, you're expanding everything bad, expense, time and suffering of all.

The goal is separation, establishing safe space for you and your girls and mitigating PD harm to the girls, IME.

Therapists can be an allie, but PD's are amazing at sabotaging everything touching the children, IME.

Best to get yourself into trauma informed therapy, be present for your girls and resist speaking negatively about their mum.

That way they can be honest and you can help them understand and build strategies and resilience for a lifetime of dealing with a PD parent.

I don't post much these days, but wanted to wish you luck and economy of motion as you navigate this difficult journey.

You'll be more help to everyone if you learn to respond and be responsive rather than reactive, which limits choice.

That requires cultivating emotional distance......
Getting your nose off the pebbles, problems, children's upset, for example.

Once you gain some distance, you see the pebbles/problems, but also the trees, grass, lakes, streams and possibilities and CHOICEs.

Going down emotional rabbit holes with your children, for instance, limits your ability to respond and be responsive in the best possible way.

You can still be ok, even when your children aren't ok....and it's ok.

Even when things aren't ok.... it's still ok.  Keep returning to feeling safe and doing what you can.

Most of us worry worry worry, all the time....it wears us down.  Breaks us. Ribs us if joy.

Do what you can, then put the story on the shelf.... so you can turn back to being present and cultivating joy for yourself and children.

I promise, you'll regret living in survival mode all the time, bc the problems and fear are all you see.

There's magic in being fully present....in looking your children in the eye and SEEING them, listening, creating new family rituals and just plain being curious and non judgemental in their presence.

Model tsunamis of self compassion....
Curiosity instead of judgement...
Release expectations.....
Embrace radical acceptance of things you can't change....

Make time to seek out joy in nature, art, cooking, ideas and activities with your girls.

THAT would be proactive and miraculous, IME, during divorce with a PD, yup yup yup.

[SonofThunder]

If you succumb to the lovebombing/hoovering, the next term is idealization, the first part of the IDD cycle. 

You've received excellent feedback already. Well done on the proactive parenting and hard work to make your RV situation work out positively.  Brush off her manipulations and move forward. 

SoT