How to handle this sort of disrespect?

[Cenerentola]

This past weekend we had a family get together (me+DH hosting) that was superficially fine, but I left it feeling wrecked.  I told my therapist later this week that I still feel viscerally afraid when these things happen and we agreed that the fear is something I need to work on (besides the anger, which I've been processing for a while and am coming to grips with).  But (I guess because my therapist is there to affirm what I tell her) I keep questioning whether it is right/reasonable for me to feel afraid and angry when this stuff happens with uPD parent.

There were three subtle but big-to-me things that uBD parent did.  (1) These events have a food theme (uPD parent's idea!) and for this event I requested, in addition to the theme, not Food X.  uPD parent first offered in their reply to bring two different examples of Food X, or a different item.  I said "different item."  Then they showed up with different item ... and also Food X, because "we had it last night and there were a lot of leftovers."  I put Food X on the table (my mistake; I should have pretended it was invisible) because fawn response.  Ugh.  And I said (when asked) that they could leave it (also fawn, also mistake).  I'm retrospectively angry at myself (and uPD parent).  I'm especially angry because my (mostly former) problems with food are directly related to uPD parent insisting on our eating stuff we hated or else—something I've tried unsuccessfully to tell them in the past.

(2) uPD parent has wanted to do something during these get togethers, not just sit around and talk.  I had arranged an activity in the category uPD parent previously mentioned as fun.  We get set up to do it and uPD parent leaves to help clean up in the kitchen.  The rest of us did the activity without uPD parent.  It was probably more fun that way, but I'm still frustrated by the rudeness.

(3) uPD parent tried extending the visit in a few different ways, one of them patently absurd (I called out that one and nipped it in the bud) but one that really bothered me.  They had previously shared with the whole family about a fun new thing at their house; I had said we could come enjoy it on one of our usual visiting days.  Welp, when uPD parent (who interacts way more with me than my kids) is approached by little DD, uPD parent starts trying to sell DD on coming to see the fun thing: my sense was, they wanted to get DD begging to visit before I would otherwise be willing.  That left me feeling really icky.  (Lucky for me, DH was unresponsive to these suggestions.)

Everything has plausible deniability, of course; if I had confronted uPD parent about any of it they could have said they meant nothing by it, they were only trying to be nice, etc.  But I very much felt like my attempts to be kind (by hosting to a theme as requested, by having an activity as requested, by having regular visiting days) were treated with great disrespect.

If anyone has thoughts about how I could have better handled this, or what to do going forward, I would welcome them.

[SpiritedChange]

So anger is a completely healthy response when someone disregards a boundary -- and your parent disregarded at least three boundaries that night as far as I can tell. Like toddlers, PD parents have a need to engage in power struggles and to push against our boundaries and confronting them about it doesn't usually work. Because visits with PD parents are so draining reducing contact is often the best course of action, as well as limiting in-person contact to public venues, such as going out to a café for brunch or lunch, or doing some kind of activity like mini-golf, bowling etc., instead of hosting our parents in our homes, or visiting them at their homes, can be helpful strategies as long as you are prepared for a lot of resistance to the changes to the status quo which you will be making.
 

[Call Me Cordelia]

This whole thing is so familiar to me. Bending over backwards to please them and yet it's just never enough. Respect being completely a one way street. Feeling terrified the whole time. Parents basically ignoring the grandkids except to manipulate them for their own purposes. Ugh, I'm sorry.

Have you and your therapist discussed CPTSD? Because the fear isn't "right or reasonable" for an adult who after all has a lot of power now. But it IS reasonable when the amygdala is taking over in an emotional flashback. And that's where the trauma responses kick in.

[NarcKiddo]

I second the advice to consider CPTSD if you have not already. Maybe check out our sister site Out of the Storm which is specifically geared to that.

I have very similar trauma reactions to similar things. The fear reaction is sometimes quite overwhelming and can leave me responding to my uNPD mother as if I were a small, dependent child. I become literally incapable of applying adult reasoning or agency to the situation.

Things are getting better for me slowly, as I go through things with my therapist, identify trigger situations etc. Even if I get a terror reaction now, it is quite often the case that enough of adult me remains present to see me through with some modicum of functionality.

What is important to realise is that if you are transported back into a child emotional state this is not a shortcoming on your part. Clearly you don't want to be in that position but when it happens please try to analyse why it happened and what responses you might have liked to make without assigning any "if only" or blame statements to yourself. Learning to identify when you start to feel icky in the tiniest way can be helpful because you might then be able to keep adult you in the room, as it were, enough to keep the child emotional reaction contained to some degree and this gradually gets better as you start to trust your own adult self more.

And when you are brainstorming things you might do in the future to respond to this sort of thing, do pay attention to the sorts of responses you would like to make but dare not for fear the sky will fall in. Those things are worth really thinking about. Not necessarily doing, at first, because it can be too scary to stand your ground to that extent, but from an adult position really consider "if I do X what is the worst she can do?" And when you have identified the worst thing she can do, sit back and say "so what?" and think about whether you really, truly cannot cope with whatever the worst is. In my case I have in the past thought "she will rage at me" or "she will never talk to me again" or "she will disinherit me". Although I have never chosen to provoke my mother to the point she will do the latter two things I am satisfied that if SHE pushes me to a point where I am prepared to go that far, then I will, and will take the consequences. It will not break me. Now I know it will not break me I am more prepared to react in a way that displeases my mother. I have generally found she actually backs down and the sky has not fallen in.

[SpiritedChange]

I wanted to add, regarding the fear issue, I am personally not a big believer in most mental health diagnoses, but I do believe we learned very early in life that saying "no" to our parents came with serious consequences, either through physical abuse, or emotional abuse such as the emotional withdrawal which we would have experienced as a life-threatening abandonment, and as such we were conditioned to feel fear at the mere thought of saying no or setting boundaries.

In my case I was able to overcome this fear by doing a simple grounding exercise when I was on the brink of having a panic attack after I refused let my mother have her way for the first time in my life, about two years ago. My intense anxiety immediately vanished which seemed almost miraculous, and ever since then telling my mother "no" has been so much easier. It seems like all that was needed was one experience of realizing that if I said "no", I would not die, nor would my mother, and that allowed my irrational fear to instantly dissipate. I guess it was a form of exposure therapy and it was extremely effective and I highly recommend it.

[Cenerentola]

Like toddlers, PD parents have a need to engage in power struggles and to push against our boundaries and confronting them about it doesn't usually work

Yes, this is actually very reminiscent of my toddler.  Stating the rule, even one that is reasonable and known (e.g., "You need to put on your shoes before you get in the car") has been known to produce defcon 5.  So one ends up making suggestions instead.  ("Hey, can I help you put your shoes on?")  It's just ... man, it feels soooo manipulative and controlling when adults do that.

Your point about doing things on foreign turf is a good one.

[Cenerentola]

Have you and your therapist discussed CPTSD? Because the fear isn't "right or reasonable" for an adult who after all has a lot of power now. But it IS reasonable when the amygdala is taking over in an emotional flashback. And that's where the trauma responses kick in.

Yes.  Recently I took a few questionnaires for diagnosing Autism Spectrum Disorder in adult women.  (Background: we have a child who has an ASD/ADHD diagnosis, and I kept seeing similarities to my own thinking in the child's behavior.)  The results suggested that I might be on the spectrum, just high masking when it comes to social interactions--but I know there's a lot of overlap between ASD and CPTSD when it comes to social anxiety, difficulty reading people, second guessing one's remarks, etc.  When I took this to my therapist, she basically said yes, everything I was experiencing could very likely be CPTSD, based on what I've told her about my childhood.

So we've just opened that can of worms.  She does talk + bilateral stimulation and it's been good so far.  But I am NOT looking forward to reliving the fear part; somehow I doubt that it's going to have the cathartic afterburn that sorrow and anger do.   

[Cenerentola]

NarcKiddo, I did look at Out of the Storm and it feels somehow way more overwhelming than this site.  Probably a sign I need to spend more time there, but maybe not right away.

What is important to realise is that if you are transported back into a child emotional state this is not a shortcoming on your part. Clearly you don't want to be in that position but when it happens please try to analyse why it happened and what responses you might have liked to make without assigning any "if only" or blame statements to yourself. Learning to identify when you start to feel icky in the tiniest way can be helpful because you might then be able to keep adult you in the room, as it were, enough to keep the child emotional reaction contained to some degree and this gradually gets better as you start to trust your own adult self more.

Thank you for this.  I do tend to beat myself up even for minimal failures.  Probably a combination of a childhood where there was no such thing as perfect combined with a lot of emotional parentification.  I mean, if I'm not the tough cookie between emotionally labile parent, distant parent, teenage raging siblings, and immature little kid siblings, who's going to hold this mess together? 

Funny that you recommend a "worst they can do" exercise.  I will frequently go there in my head, not just with my FOO but also with everyday fears like fear for my children's safety on the playground, safety driving, bad responses from work emails, etc.  My husband thought it was a little crazy when I told him, but it actually relieves anxiety for me.  "Ah, the worst this person could do is cuss me out by email?  I can live with that."  "Oh, the worst my kid could do is break a bone?  Well, I guess I know where the hospital is."

I can think of two kinds of worsts with my mom.  (And yeah, I'm not comfortable writing that, even though I know she probably will never see this forum; but I'm tired of gender neutering everything.)  (1) She might get ragey or tearful, in which case I'd feel the need to placate/comfort her.  But I've made a lot of strides in the past few months in NOT doing the caretaking thing anymore, and I think I could stick to my guns in that way.  (2) She might play the super-cool, Honey Bear Don't Care card.  That's honestly more scary to me.  I think a very young part of me still assumes that angry/sad mom cares about me, she's just overwhelmed by her feelings.  Dead-faced mom still feels like an existential threat though.  Which I guess means this definitely needs to go to therapy.

[Cenerentola]

In my case I was able to overcome this fear by doing a simple grounding exercise when I was on the brink of having a panic attack after I refused let my mother have her way for the first time in my life, about two years ago. My intense anxiety immediately vanished which seemed almost miraculous, and ever since then telling my mother "no" has been so much easier.

Sheer gold.

[frogjumpsout]

Just a note that I've personally found Out of the Storm less than helpful due to the way the site is moderated. Others' experience definitely varies, but there are safer forums out there imo, including this one.

[Cenerentola]

Frogjumpsout, thank you for that input.  Good to know.