Can you help me peel away the layers to this scenario

[Dinah-sore]

My BPDm has been in a period of worse symptoms. Since November she has started a huge fight with me, where we go a week without speaking, just about every week. It is weird because I have sick kids and she knows I am overwhelmed with dr appointments and sleepless nights. So for the last couple years that the kids have been dealing with illness, she has been mostly supportive. Controlling but supportive.

I think a lot of it is because she is into conspiracy theories. She wants me to believe them, but I don't. But it makes her so angry. Like I can't accept who she is. She wants to fight about politics and I don't. We don't agree about anything, and she can't get over it. She can't just respect that we are different people.

However, her BPD makes it worse I think because it makes her abuse come out. She won't stop bringing stuff up. I have set boundaries a lot. My boundaries currently are highest level. And she is so mad about it.

Our last argument she brought up someone I admire and called this person two racist slurs. I messed up and almost instinctively cussed at her ("fuck off"- which is very rude and I later apologized) and I hung up, then sent her a long text saying how disgusting her racist comments were. We went a week without speaking. She was waiting for me to apologize. So a week later i sent her a text apologizing for cussing her out, but said I can't talk about the argument, at all.

She apologized very generally for her part so I tried to move on, talk about a TV show, but she keeps asking me if I think she is racist. I can't talk to her about it at all because I am afraid we will fight again and I will lose my temper. She is crying and acting like she needs to hear me tell her I don't think she is racist. She is acting like she can't breathe until I tell her she isn't racist.

Here is the thing, it isn't heartfelt soul searching. She isn't worried that she IS racist. She only wants to hear me say that I don't think she is. She says, "I can't have you thinking I am racist."

I can't do that. She said something horrific and offensive, and she is acting like she is a victim of me not telling her she isn't racist.

What world does she live in.

I keep refusing, "I do not want to talk to you about racism or politics." I repeat that over and over, and then she says real angry and hurt, "well that is my answer then." Meaning if I don't say she isn't then I am saying she is. And whatever. I don't care if she thinks I think she is a racist; I think she probably is from how she talks. I just don't want to argue about it. So I am saying nothing. And she says, "How could you say something so horrible about me." I had said nothing. All I said was "I don't want to talk to you about racism or politics." She is the one saying horrible things about good people.

I literally said nothing, I just keep telling her I won't discuss it with her.

She is not in good health so I am just trying to have as little conflict with her as possible as she could die this year. I think her health makes me put up with a lot and fear upsetting her.

But she keeps saying things that feel like traps. Like she WANTS to argue with me. And she isn't serious about facts either, she believes easily unproven lies. It is so weird.

And she won't leave me alone about the things I believe and the people I admire. She keeps trying to send me gotcha stuff to get pleasure in showing me I am wrong about stuff? But it is lies or irrelevant. Idk. And then when she doesn't get a gotcha reaction she will say horrible racist things.

I think that is it. I have already set the boundary that I won't talk to her about politics or conspiracies. And she still tries, and then when it doesn't work she becomes more offensive and racist.

Is she getting dementia?

I mean this isn't the first time we have fought about her saying racist things. The last time she was disgustingly offensive too.

Is this evil stuff always in her heart? She used to teach Bible studies?

Every time I tell her I love her she scoffs and laughs that how could I love someone I think is racist. And then when I don't give her what she wants. Saying she isn't a racist, she crises last night I am in parked in front of a clothing store and she is on the phone CRYING again that I won't say she isn't racist.

I won't tell her. Idk what she has going on in her heart. But what she has coming out of her mouth should be what she is crying about, not what isn't coming out of my mouth.

I think the next step is to tell her I don't want to hear her being this up anymore, that I will get off the phone next time she asks me if I think she is racist.

Or should I just say yes and leave it alone? The only reason I don't say yes is because I don't want to be in a position of judging her heart. I only want to judge her words and actions, and I already said those were racist. Idk.

But it has been such a rough few months. As I typed this she just sent me a question that will lead into a political/conspiracy argument, and I have to go respond that I don't want to talk about that. And then she will cry and say I don't accept her, and she can't bring up anything anymore without me getting upset. And she KNOWS she is bringing up something that will upset me. It feels like a trap. And I am damned either way.

So sorry to bother you. I am thankful for this forum.

[Rebel13]

Hi Dinah, I'm so sorry you are struggling with this. I can tell it is bothering you a lot.

I think you have said some things here that indicate you are getting clarity for yourself.

I won't tell her. Idk what she has going on in her heart. But what she has coming out of her mouth should be what she is crying about, not what isn't coming out of my mouth.

That is gold right there. You are so right. This is her issue, not yours, and she has to figure it out for herself. I think you are so right to set and keep the boundary of not discussing those topics.

I think the next step is to tell her I don't want to hear her being this up anymore, that I will get off the phone next time she asks me if I think she is racist.

I agree! That sounds perfect to me.

And she KNOWS she is bringing up something that will upset me. It feels like a trap. And I am damned either way.

I think you are exactly right about this also. You might want to look up Son of Thunder's posts here. He has a way of explaining this dynamic that is so clear and understandable, it's easy to see from his explanations why we should not get sucked into these kinds of situations with our loved ones.

Wishing you the best and sorry things have been so rocky lately.

[Tribe16]

However, her BPD makes it worse I think because it makes her abuse come out. She won't stop bringing stuff up. I have set boundaries a lot. My boundaries currently are highest level. And she is so mad about it.

What she is doing is baiting you. This is manipulative behavior. She is trying very hard to get a reaction from you so that she can turn around and say something like "See! You're XYZ!!!" The fact that she keeps bringing up "You think I'm a racist" is her trying to get you to back pedal and coddle her by saying "No Mom, you're not a racist" which is her trying to get you to manage her emotional state. Also manipulative.

Good for you at managing your boundaries. I can only imagine how stressful this must be for you. Sometimes all we can do is put some distance between ourselves and the toxic person and give our nervous systems a little rest for awhile. I hope you're able to get some peace.

[Dinah-sore]

Thank you both so much for your thoughts. It really helps me to bounce this off of you.

I think I have forgotten about how bad things used to be with my mom. So when this happens I am shocked.

I get sucked into feeling guilty and like nothing I do will be okay for her.

I just have to focus on managing my own feelings and reactions. And not let myself get sucked into a situation that overwhelms me.

So when she texted me the other day about the question she had that is political/conspiratorial I just responded that I can't talk about it, but I pray she finds insight. She frames her questions like she is sincere and confused and needs my help. So I feel like I am helping her by sharing information, but she just uses it to bait me into an argument. She does it every time. She will act all needy and humble, and the when I start to share my thoughts she will slip and start arguing real mean with all these "facts" that aren't real. And there is nothing I can do or say to stop her once she gets going, other than getting off the phone.

Sometimes I just sit on the phone dissociating, and my heart will start pounding and my vision will tunnel. I tell her that when she argues like this it is hard on me, I told her about my heart pounding and dissociating, but she still wants to start these arguments. And she will purposely say things awful about people I admire, and say nice things about people who she knows I think are predators. So it is like she knows it will hurt me, or upset me. And I don't respond or change the subject.

But yeah, I was able to get out of the last argument easily enough. But she knows it was about someone in the news that I would want to talk about. So she was tempting me.I resisted.

[walking on broken glass]

Hi Dinah,
I think you exposed your mum's true self by showing her she is racist and she won't have it. She can't stand anyone thinking badly of her and she is determined to force you to acknowledge that she isn't. I learned with my parents not to engage in conversations about politics, because are opinions are vastly different, and my dad would constantly tried to bait me by sending me articles or saying provocative things and asking my opinion. I would ignore the articles and make very general remarks about the subject at hand, and then would be silent while he would go on and on offering his views. I would not and make various sounds but would not take the bait, and eventually change the subject. Could you try something like that?
How would it feel if you actually responded to her question by saying 'yes, the comment you made the other day was racist, and if it fully reflects your views, you are racist. No two ways about it'? What would she do?  If she got angry and shouted at you, you could say I am not going to be shouted at, talk to me when you are ready to have a respectful conversation. And then hang up. Would it be at all liberating? Or does it sound daunting and impossible?

[TimetoHeal]

Hi, Dinah,

I'm so sorry you are going through this.  This sounds very similar to the relationship between my mother and I.  She knows that political subjects are completely off limits because we disagree so vehemently, and because I find her beliefs disgusting and racist as well.  She has stopped trying to get me to see things her way, but she will make passive aggressive remarks like, "Oh, I can't talk about politics with you, or I would tell you about something I know".    How freaking immature. 

Anyway, a couple of thoughts.  Could you limit time talking to her on the phone?  I find it is harder to control the flow of a conversation when I am on the phone or face to face with my mother.  When she texts me, as much as I hate it, I can easily choose not to respond when she makes comments that are offensive or ridiculous.  When I am face to face or on the phone with her, I respond with complete silence and a blank stare.  She knows my boundary, and I feel like having to restate it over and over actually IS engaging in the conversation to some degree, and she knows it.  I would go to the next level of your boundaries like you said, and tell her you will not be discussing it at all any more, and hang up the second she brings it up. 

Alternately, I really like WOBG's thought of just telling her, yes, I do think you're racist because of what you actually said.  But I know that probably feels scary. It would be for me, so I understand. 

Hang in there, and whatever you do, definitely protect yourself to the highest extent possible.  These people are damaging, as difficult as that is to accept about our parents.  Take a time out, don't accept as many calls, don't respond AT ALL to off-limits topics.  You can do this.

[moglow]

FWIW, it sounds like she's baiting a fight - she sounds like mine and will pick pick pick until she finds a known tender spot, then pounce on it. She wants you to label her so she can object to that and make you out to be the bad guy, instead of stopping to think about and addressing her own poor behavior.

Case in point: Last summer one of my brothers and I visited mother in a rehab center following a medical incident. For whatever reason, she pretended she didn't know who we were for the entirety of the visit - went as far as literally asking "who are you with," and specifically what were our names. Even once given that information, no reaction, flat lifeless no emotion. [Mother is not a flat lifeless person, she lives for overblown drama.] It didn't end well. Months later I confronted her with the situation as I saw it, told her how I saw it and why - she immediately went defensive and accusatory, that we hadn't called her before our visit and "what did you expect me to do?" [I dunno, pretend some interest that your children were there?? Act like you cared??] 

She went off how rude and hurtful it was that we'd do that to her - Imagine that. I pointed out that it was rude and hurtful to pretend she didn't know who we were when clearly she did. She gave a very specific [and sneering] description of the visit, down to what we were wearing and her impression of how we'd supposedly changed. I told her flat out I didn't understand the need to lie. At that point she grabbed on and clung to "you called your mother a liar." I meticulously don't call names or place label. not with her or anyone else. I address behavior - the performance as she presented it wasn't real and she made up something to  appear a victim. To this day, in her mind I called her a liar and she's way more concerned with that than the truth: She. Lied.

[Rebel13]

[I dunno, pretend some interest that your children were there?? Act like you cared??]

LOL moglow, that's just crazy talk. 

[moglow]

 silly me!

@Dinah-sore - my point in my ramble above was, she can't get your goat if she doesn't know where it is. Understand she's trying to bait you, just because she can. Take the thorns out and carry on, changing your responses both external and internal. She really can't hurt you unless you allow it. 

Maybe suggest that "talking about others feels a lot like gossip and I don't want to do that anymore." And don't. She brings it up, you deflect, swift change of  subject, woops look at the time I got a go! End the call if you must. Someone's at the door. You have an appt to get to. The dog's on fire again. Just refuse to participate.  She won't like it but guess what? You don't like THIS either. Somebody has choices to make, so make the best ones for you and your sanity. She'll survive.