Wavering on NC?

[Penny20657]

I think I "accidentally" ended up in NC with my mother and am questioning if I have enough "reason" to be NC. We had a big fight on the phone almost 9 months ago because she wasn't happy with how often I was visiting her (I had just been at her place or she at mine 3 weekends in a row then had a 2 weekend break), that I didn't want to go to a family cottage for a weekend, covid is over so things should go back to "normal", etc. The thing is, I was happier with our relationship since Covid started because I had a "legitimate" (external) reason to limit my visits with her. Anyway I was so mad on the call with her blaming my husband for not seeing her and she was yelling, I was yelling, I eventually hung up.

Didn't speak to her for 3 months when she said she needed some information from me (address) for emergency contact for something, but I've lived in my house for many years and not sure why Google isn't a valid resource but I digress. I answered that request with facts only. A week later she showed up at my house while I was home alone with my kids. The door was unlocked and because she knew I was home, she let herself in (I had been ignoring the door, usually the door is locked!). I have never been so enraged by the audacity. I told her she disrespected my boundaries (stated many times - do not come to my house without an invitation) and I needed space, do not contact me, I will reach out when I'm ready.

Fast forward to after my last baby was recently born, she said she was having surgery and needed to talk to me. I sent her a message to say my baby was born, what did she want me to know about the surgery. Of course she never answered that part and showed up at my house the next day and left me a voicemail crying about wanting to see my baby. Next day, her sister came to the house also asking to see the baby and my husband told her no. She also said to him that I could call her and she just wanted everyone to get alone or something along those lines. I didn't hear from my mother until she called me yesterday leaving a cheery vm asking me to call her back as "it would be nice to hear from you".

These last several months have been good, maybe even great?! I am not constantly worrying about how many days/weeks it has been since our last call/visit. I am not dreading her phone calls and actually having talking to her. I have not had the thought of "I wish I could share this with my mom" or "I wish my mom was here to help me with the baby". I have not missed her at all. When the call came in yesterday I looked at my phone, saw Mom on the ID, went "huh" and put it back in my pocket. A few months ago the phone call would have filled me with panic and anxiety. I just got some amazing news at work this week and she has not been on my thoughts of people to share the news with.

I have been in therapy on and off since 2013, but I am still ever struggling with "am I making the right decision" and constantly feel like my abuse wasn't really abuse as it wasn't bad enough, was it? And generally questioning whether I should be NC with her. After writing this out I now have had the thought come to me that during covid our relationship was definitely LC and it still was unsatisfying, mildly upsetting, mildly encroaching on my boundaries, etc. and it wasn't "enough" for her that then the argument months ago occurred, so it's not like I haven't tried LC. I just also feel that I have put so much time, effort and money into working on me and she has done no work at all on herself, not that I thought she ever would. I just feel guilty that I may actually be doing the silent treatment? It is easier to not deal with her at all and I feel guilty that I'm not "dealing with the issue", but avoiding it. And I'm still angry at times. But telling her my boundaries, having them trampled, and cutting off contact is enforcing my boundaries, right? Feeling a little defeated.

[moglow]

FWIW I don't think any of us owe anyone an explanation of our boundaries - we live them. They are ours. Others don't have to debate or even agree with what we feel is best for us. WE make those decisions for our lives and we enforce them as necessary. It doesn't have to be a big fracas and a whole lot of emotion. Somewhere along the way I think we were fed fantasies that if we just tell them enough, state it a different way, explain "this is why" and "if you'd only" that things will change. That's not what boundaries are for - We change our behavior, our way of looking at things, our responses. They are quite literally a separation between us and others, and that's not limited to the PD individuals in our lives. 

Think about it - when's the last time you had to explain to your spouse, children, friends, that xyz wasn't okay or that it was hurtful when they abc? When you did, in all likelihood they stepped back, reevaluated, possibly apologized and/or explained and everybody moved on. That doesn't happen with our parents. Every little thing becomes WWIII, we realize as a result that we simply don't enjoy their company so we limit our exposure - but somehow that's not acceptable either.

All that said, it doesn't have to be "that bad" to decide you've had enough. I guarantee that if you were to explain yet again to her that "this is why we are where we are" she wouldn't understand. Every explanation would trigger another question and it'd turn into another big ole circular argument right back where you started. At least that's been my experience, over and over and over, until I stopped explaining myself. I realized mine wasn't remotely interested in me, my thoughts, my opinions or anything else. She was still going to talk over me, run with a shitton of baseless assumptions, twist my words and beat me over the head with them.

If you want to see or talk with her, do that. Limit it and don't be bullied or guilted into "more" if it's not what you want. Do it without expectations or apology, but with the sure firm knowledge that you're the person you want to be. If that's not enough for her, it's just not. You don't have to pretzel yourself into some make believe to pacify her or anyone else.

Just my thoughts from the porch this morning.

[moglow]

And one thought re: silent treatment - To me, silent treatment is punitive, pouty, attempts at proving a point. I don't see any of that in what you've shared here. I see you as resolved, at peace, and fighting off the belief that you should somehow feel guilty. Working your way Out of the FOG [fear obligation and guilt], as it were.

As a therapist asked of me years ago: if this were anyone else, say a friend who disregarded, openly treated you badly and talked to you the way she does, what would you do? My immediate gut response was, I wouldn't consider them a friend and wouldn't have anything to do with them! My friends don't treat me that way. "Then why does your mother get a pass?" And she sat back and watched me while her words sank in. Obligation and guilt. Because "she's the mother" and " she did the best she could." Maybe, maybe not. But I was her child who she chose to treat that way. Her own child.

I'm just saying, maybe you could put down that stick you're beating yourself with. And go hold your child.

[bloomie]

Everything Moglow said!

So many of us here face gaslighting ourselves. I kinda think it is a rite of passage in our healing journey. To finally, finally face how unreasonable, immature, entitled, limited our parents' behaviors are and how much unnecessary chaos and confusion it brings to our good and worthy lives.

These last several months have been good, maybe even great?! I am not constantly worrying about how many days/weeks it has been since our last call/visit. I am not dreading her phone calls and actually having talking to her. I have not had the thought of "I wish I could share this with my mom" or "I wish my mom was here to help me with the baby". I have not missed her at all. When the call came in yesterday I looked at my phone, saw Mom on the ID, went "huh" and put it back in my pocket. A few months ago the phone call would have filled me with panic and anxiety. I just got some amazing news at work this week and she has not been on my thoughts of people to share the news with.

I have been in therapy on and off since 2013, but I am still ever struggling with "am I making the right decision" and constantly feel like my abuse wasn't really abuse as it wasn't bad enough, was it? And generally questioning whether I should be NC with her. After writing this out I now have had the thought come to me that during covid our relationship was definitely LC and it still was unsatisfying, mildly upsetting, mildly encroaching on my boundaries, etc. and it wasn't "enough" for her that then the argument months ago occurred, so it's not like I haven't tried LC. I just also feel that I have put so much time, effort and money into working on me and she has done no work at all on herself, not that I thought she ever would. I just feel guilty that I may actually be doing the silent treatment? It is easier to not deal with her at all and I feel guilty that I'm not "dealing with the issue", but avoiding it. And I'm still angry at times. But telling her my boundaries, having them trampled, and cutting off contact is enforcing my boundaries, right? Feeling a little defeated.

I wonder... have you cut off contact? Or have you tried to work with your mother expressing where your life begins and hers ends and she has refused to honor and respect your separateness? Because, my guess is the stuff you describe her doing is just the tip of the iceberg and this has been seriously hard for all of your life.

You describe living in peace. Protecting your peace and honoring the very hard work you have done to separate yourself and live as a fully fledged adult that chooses how they want their weekends and time to be spent is priceless not cruel.

When we step back, because we truly have been given no other choice, and allow those we love who bring so much conflict and angst into our lives to experience the consequences of their own choices and make their own decisions about how to better manage themselves going forward - that is what love actually looks like. For yourself and for your mother.

Taking this one step at a time and practicing self compassion, recognizing when I am gaslighting myself and shifting blame onto myself, undeserved, has been so helpful to me.

An article from our toolbox came to mind that you may have already seen, but if not, I thought to share it:

Abuse Amnesia

A great video that I found helpful further explains the tendency to gaslight ourselves that may be helpful:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uw8wYGYvGsU

[Penny20657]

Thank you moglow and bloomie for your responses, they have honestly been more helpful than working with my latest therapist, which has prompted me to look again for someone with experience with narcissism/BPD. I read the comments through initially, and that helped me feel more steady about remaining NC. I then have come back to read a few more times and let it all sink in, and last night I just felt a lot of sadness. And honestly, it was a lot of work to write out my first post and also to think about writing a response back! Sometimes I just feel so tired of dealing with it all. Reading through the link bloomie provided on Abuse Amnesia, I definitely have that, and the YouTube link was great (albeit a little depressing) as well, and overall I was feeling sad that people in all of our lives have treated us in such ways that we in turn treat ourselves terribly.

Thank you moglow for pointing out that put simply, the same behaviour would not be tolerated if it was anyone other than my mother, but what makes her any different? Your comment that it doesn't have to be "that bad" to be "enough" hit home, and validating that I don't appear to be doing the silent treatment is also so helpful (always gaslighting myself!).

Bloomie, to answer your question, I have not contacted my mother in the last 9 months other than in response to her asking for my address for an emergency contact. Then, when she asked to see me, I sent her a text to tell her that entering my home the week before (despite the door being accidentally unlocked, who just tries the door and walks into someone's house?) without an invitation was a blatant disregard for my request for her to have an invitation to come to my house. I needed space and would not be contacting her or responding to her contact attempts until I am ready. That was 5 months ago. She did drop off Christmas gifts for my two older kids that I didn't return, and I did "slip up" when she contacted me 2 weeks after my baby was born to say she was having surgery (she wouldn't have known the baby had arrived, it was a last-minute scheduled yet early c-section). I felt like she should know I had the baby. I have not blocked her on social media, but I also do not post often, and what I have posted, I have restricted her and that side of my family from viewing (the extended family dynamic is also dysfunctional with at least one other family member having nearly identical behaviours as my mother). I have not had specific/calm discussions with her about my expectations for a relationship with her, other than during arguments to say I don't have to call her every week or visit her every weekend. I work a very demanding job and have kids to care for in the evenings before I work again from home (I have no downtime lol). I just essentially skipped to NC, which is why I said it was "accidental" 😂 I'd just had enough, but you're right, these recent things are just the tip of the iceberg!

As I'm currently deciding to remain NC, my game plan was to continue ignoring her - any calls, texts, knocks on the door will go unanswered (we don't answer the door unless we know someone is coming). My current therapist has suggested that if she comes to the door again to open the door and say "I have asked you for space. I am not ready to speak with you. I am going to close the door, and my expectation is that you will leave." but I just feel like this still gives her "access" to me that I don't want to do (and yet again I feel like that's punishing her). Is there another or better way to deal with contact attempts?

[walking on broken glass]

Hello Penny!
I am so sorry you are dealing with this. Something that jumped to me from your post was the feeling that 'it wasn't too bad'. This is something I also struggle with in the current relationship with my mum. I feel I am being unfair or mean wanting to cut contact with her because, well she has been cold and unfair and mean, but she wasn't always like that. It's sobering to hear it from another person though because my immediate reaction to your post was that you get to decide that enough is enough, and if it is bad for you it is bad full stop. Why should it be a question for *how much* hurt and stress you are allowing in your life? How about not at all? Why is that unreasonable?

I am saying all these things for my benefit too. Since you went no contact, have you found peace? Why would you change anything to jeopardise that? Stay firm! What I would do if she came to the door would be to completely ignore her (assuming you can see it's her without having to open the door) until she goes away. Any interaction with her may carry risks.

[Penny20657]

Thank you so much for validating, and sorry to hear you're dealing with a very similar dynamic, it also feels like I am "being mean" and I very much find that feeling uncomfortable.

"Why should it be a question of *how much* hurt and stress you are allowing in your life? How about not at all?" really hits home, thanks for this. I sometimes feel like, well, she was on "good for her" behaviour for a fair length of time and I just got fed up with the one argument. But it wasn't the one argument really, it was being fed up with all of the small (day to day manageable) things, and all of the big things in the past coming to a head at once. I just felt like how dare you demand more from me when you've taken so much?

I have found peace since going no contact, and you're right, I don't need to jeopardize my peace for her sake! I hope you have found peace as well and our similarities have also strengthened your resolve