Psyching ourselves up to talk to them

[TimetoHeal]

I'm sure many of you can relate to having to psyche yourself up to call or visit with a PD relative. I have to do this every time I call my mother on the phone or go to see her.

I found myself the other day with a sense of dread and fear in my gut leading up to a phone conversation I was to have with her.  Not about anything specific, just knowing I was going to have to talk to her.  Well, actually, a general sense of knowing I was in for one of her long drawn out moaning and groaning sessions about how miserable she is and how bad her life is, because she had texted me and said, "Time, I really HAVE to talk to you.  Last week was SO terrible".  I wrote out several affirmations such as "I can hang up any time I want to", "She can't hurt me".  "I don't have to rescue her or fix her problems", "I am safe".  Before I called, it just hit me the absolute ABSURDITY that I need to do this before talking to my mother!  I realized there is no other person on the face of the earth that I have to interact with like this, that causes me so much fear.

And I couldn't help but ask myself "Why do I do this?  When will enough be enough?"  Isn't 50+ years enough?"

I know nobody can answer that but me, but just wondered if others here could relate.

[Rebel13]

Very much so! For a number of years before going NC, I video chatted with my mom twice a year, Mother's Day and her birthday. I absolutely stressed about it a lot before the fact, but even worse for me was the detox afterwards. It could take me several days to a week to get back to equilibrium, depending on how much she dumped on me and how little interest or regard for me, my life, my interests, my activities, my relationship, my work etc. she displayed during the call. It's exhausting. Sometimes I didn't even realize how much of an "aura" of anxiety I had ahead of time until I felt the relief when it was over.

I've been NC with her for almost two years and it's such a relief to not have to think/worry/process/stress about that relationship anymore.

Wishing you peace.

[TimetoHeal]

Thank you, Rebel!

"Detox" is a perfect word for what we have to do after contact with the PD.   

I think I am remembering that your mother is older too.  I think that guilt and fear of what might happen is what keeps me engaged with her.  I realize just how cruel of an unspoken threat she holds over my head constantly.  "This is all going to fall on you".  "I'm going to collapse on you".  (She literally says or writes these things on a regular basis).  It boggles the mind to think of what she is doing to me. 

I am encouraged to read other stories of those who went NC later in life. 

Thank you so much. 

[walking on broken glass]

Hey Time to Heal!
I can definitely relate to that.
I felt like that every time I called my BPD sister. Before I went no contact, we would speak three to four times a year. There was no time I felt ok about calling her. I was always stressed and had to say to myself things like 'it's ok, you don't have to talk about things you don't want to talk about', 'it will only be half an hour', 'it's been a good day today, anything she says you can take it', 'maybe she won't be that bad' etc. Even when she did not make malicious hints or comments and was just talking non stop about her woes, our conversations left me exhausted. Now that I am no contact with her, I can't believe I was putting up with this.

But my mum is a different story. I think the FOG is stronger with my mum because she is old and ill, and because until recently she had not displayed malice and craziness, just coldness and awkwardness.  But even before things went really south, it was still a chore for me to call her. I never looked forward to it. I guess this is the price we have to pay when we stay in contact with them.

I have a friend with a NPD mum and she calls her every day. She claims that she has managed to emotionally detach from her mum and not get frustrated or hurt or stressed about the things she says to her. She keeps the contact just to check on her and make sure she is ok but doesn't let her close emotionally. I am not sure how this is to be achieved. I personally don't think I could it.

[NarcKiddo]

I totally relate to this. I also have had to spend quite some time decompressing after contact with mine - especially any sort of face to face.

I have notices all around my desk saying "Observe, don't absorb" which reminds me to protect myself when speaking to her.

However, I have been doing a lot of work around this with my therapist. In my case the problem has to do with me not trusting me to be strong enough to deal with her. So the fear immediately kicks in. I mean, she is awful and tiresome and knows how to push my buttons, but I am an adult with agency. I can understand that in my dealings with other people (although even that has taken a long time to sink in) but with her it has taken much longer. I will say that I am noticing a lot of improvement in my trust in myself and this, in turn, is helping keep the more extreme emotional reactions to my mother in check.

Since you can't affect the behaviour of others, I guess if you plan to remain in contact with your mother and want to lessen this dread, you might think about doing some more work on your reactions to it. I do not at all mean this comment to sound as if it is blaming you, because I do not blame you at all. It is just that you are the only person who can control you, even if it does not always feel that way.

[TimetoHeal]

WOBG it sounds like we are in the same place in regards to our mothers!  Especially after reading your latest post about "slip ups".  I don't think I could do what your friend does either.  Maybe if we could have like, 10 second phone calls just checking in. But I'd literally have to hang up in my mom's face every day, and I don't think that would improve the situation. 

NarcKiddo,
That gives me a lot to think about.  I was working with a therapist last year, and I probably quit too soon.  But I felt like the relationship became too close and like we were "friends" and she started talking about herself too much in our session, so I stopped.  At the time, I felt like I was handling myself with my mother pretty well, and setting good boundaries. I'm not sure if I slacked off or if she upped the game. Maybe a bit of both.  The thing is, and maybe this is a limiting belief, but I feel like no matter how strong I am, a toxic, selfish person is capable of bringing me down because that is just normal to react like that to someone who is like that. I know I need to work on having less fear of her.  (Not sure how to do that, but it would be nice).  And trust myself to handle any situation she manufactures.  But still, regular contact with her WILL make me unwell, and I don't think that is something I can change. 

[walking on broken glass]

The thing is, and maybe this is a limiting belief, but I feel like no matter how strong I am, a toxic, selfish person is capable of bringing me down because that is just normal to react like that to someone who is like that.

This is almost exactly what I was discussing with my therapist today. I told her that it is exhausting to be faking a conversation that is not really a conversation and she said yes, non authentic relationships are exhausting. It is normal to feel like that! She suggested I implement small changes for now since I am not ready to go no contact, like less frequent calls, and that I work on my guilt: just being aware of it, staying with it, and acknowledging it, and try not to succumb to what it tells me to do. Maybe this is something helpful for you too?

By the way, it is definitely not a good sign that your therapist was talking about herself in your sessions! It is very challenging to find a good therapist, but if you do, it is extremely helpful.

[TimetoHeal]

The thing is, and maybe this is a limiting belief, but I feel like no matter how strong I am, a toxic, selfish person is capable of bringing me down because that is just normal to react like that to someone who is like that.

This is almost exactly what I was discussing with my therapist today. I told her that it is exhausting to be faking a conversation that is not really a conversation and she said yes, non authentic relationships are exhausting. It is normal to feel like that! She suggested I implement small changes for now since I am not ready to go no contact, like less frequent calls, and that I work on my guilt: just being aware of it, staying with it, and acknowledging it, and try not to succumb to what it tells me to do. Maybe this is something helpful for you too?

By the way, it is definitely not a good sign that your therapist was talking about herself in your sessions! It is very challenging to find a good therapist, but if you do, it is extremely helpful.

Thank you for this, WOBG!  Yes, it is very helpful to me. And thank you for the confirmation that I made the right decision about my therapist.  Of course, I second guessed myself a thousand times, and even had to Google "Things a Therapist Shouldn't Do".  LOL.  But I just felt like it was a waste of time.  It's a shame, because she was the first one to suggest that I had been raised by a narcissistic mother and had trauma from it.  But after that, she wasn't much help.  I haven't given up looking for another one though!  It's tough!

[OverHere]

TimetoHeal I am sorry you are going through this, it's very hard, and hard to know what to do.
Thank you for this post, at the moment I have reached a crossroads in my project of emailing my extended family of origin and a lot of this is relevant even though the parent has passed away.

Reading through the whole thread I found myself thinking about something that struck me, someone I quite admire online said that the reason you are anxious is not because you have anxiety, but because that's all you have.

I take that to mean that we have to give ourselves good things and experiences, and in the case of these families, a LOT of good things.  And the time we devote to them and people like them, stops us doing that.

Then I was agitated about a contact who behaves oddly and was feeling FOG, and I realised that thinking about this type of person is like having advertising in your head especially when you know that advertising plays on someone's vanity, fear, greed.....

Anyway I had the experience you describe when I went to see my parent, not so bad until the emotional numbness started to wear off and then things really got bad and I went NC.  Years later I wondered, "why that? why then" and I think it was because my relatively new husband was a mirror image of that parent and I could absolutely not cope with both of them in my life at the same time. 

PS  I hear people when they talk about making themselves strong before contact, but to me it's like, we just make ourselves tastier to them that way, and the real way forward may be weakness - "oh I just can't get organised to reply, oh, I just get so upset and confused, oh I don't know, I'll get back to you if I can, I'm sorry to be such a mess...." and recently this has been helpful to me although nothing works every time. I know I wouldn't have attracted my first big uNPD partner if I had done this.

[TimetoHeal]

Thank you, OverHere,

I relate to so much of what you said in your reply.  My ex-h was EXACTLY like my mother, and they would gang up on me.  In fact, they still communicate and I've been divorced for 13 years.  Having 2 of them in my life was a living He__.  Are you still with your husband?  Is it any better? 

I took the exact approach in your last paragraph when extraditing myself from my marriage to my ex.  I played scatterbrained and stupid and boring.  I can't remember exactly where I read about the approach at the time. It was before I found this website.  It was definitely the safest way to deal with him, as any direct confrontation ended in frightening rages on his part.  With my mother, it used to be rages, but more frequently, as she has become the waif, it is hysterical crying, like I have mortally wounded her or even physically hit her!     To me, it still feels safer to just play dumb rather than try to speak my truth. 

[OverHere]

TimetoHeal thanks for the validation there.  You asked if I am still with the husband and if things have got better, yes I am still with him but whether things have got better or not I cannot tell.  If I refuse to make him coffee when asked, and this actually makes him feel happy and settled, is that "better"?

Yes I wish I had known about the benefits of playing dumb, earlier.  Or maybe we actually are all dumb, and it's time to just stop playing smart. 

 

Thank you, OverHere,

I relate to so much of what you said in your reply.  My ex-h was EXACTLY like my mother, and they would gang up on me.  In fact, they still communicate and I've been divorced for 13 years.  Having 2 of them in my life was a living He__.  Are you still with your husband?  Is it any better? 

I took the exact approach in your last paragraph when extraditing myself from my marriage to my ex.  I played scatterbrained and stupid and boring.  I can't remember exactly where I read about the approach at the time. It was before I found this website.  It was definitely the safest way to deal with him, as any direct confrontation ended in frightening rages on his part.  With my mother, it used to be rages, but more frequently, as she has become the waif, it is hysterical crying, like I have mortally wounded her or even physically hit her!    To me, it still feels safer to just play dumb rather than try to speak my truth.