Confused

[Deby64]

Looking for guidance. Quick back story. I've been married to my unpd-h for 40 years. Here lately the toxic behavior is making me crazy, wanting to give up on self and life. He agrees that it maybe time for us to separate. He says if I can't submit and follow his lead and continue to disturb his peace then we need to part. Once I agree, it flips to verbal abuse " I can't believe you'll be willing to give up 40 years instead of change your behavior towards me. You just want the easier softer way..... you don't know real love etc..." I have the only source of verifiable income. I'm in a financial crisis right now and he can't or won't help. I'm willing to give him our paid for house just to be free. Separation doesn't seem to be the answer since the emotional connection will still be there. If we divorce maybe it will release him from his "duty " to be my spiritual leader/covering. I'm just lost and tired.

[StartingHealing]

Deby64,

That's what they do.  I suggest going through the tool box and start using the techniques to not only help protect yourself, but to also be able to buy some time for yourself.  I know how it feels when the emotions are such that doing something, anything, appears to be better than what is currently going on.   

You will need to get a plan together so that you can exit the situation safely and also have at least the basics to start a life of your own. 

I also suggest seeing what resources are available in your area.  Since you indicated that you are the primary earner, if you work outside of the home, work things around so you can have a free consultation with a legal professional that is experienced in high conflict people.  Get a firm grasp on what options are available to you.

Once you have the plan together, have a trusted family member or friend look it over and refine as necessary. 

When things are in place to execute the plan, stick to the plan, and don't allow the emotions to sway you away from the plan. 

Wishing you all the best. 

[Rebel13]

Hi again Deby64,

Your question reminded me of a great thread and in particular a very specific and detailed post about how MaxedOut worked through the process of getting ready to leave a relationship. It's a long process for sure but there are some great ideas there. I hope it helps!

[Deby64]

StartingHealing, Thanks for the guidance. I don't want to be impulsive. It's like I need him to give me permission to just go. How crazy is this. He talks about needing his peace, yet I know he won't make a move. He's mentioned me getting my own place and us staying married. That sounds manipulative and controlling to me. The way his paranoid mind works I'd be asking for trouble doing that. I'm just tired of feeling stuck. So many tools in the box have helped keep me sane, yet I'm feeling a new level of desperation on my end. Like I've said before. I love him to death, but this relationship feels inhumane   

[Deby64]

Thanks Rebel13, I will check this out now.

[blunk]

I experienced very similar behavior with my bpdxh. He also refused to work despite our financial need. Over the years, he brought up divorce sooooo many times. This was, of course, before I was Out of the FOG. I would beg him to change his mind, say we can work on things, promise not to do XYZ that upset him, etc. That was exactly what he wanted, I was fawning.

Once I was finally done, he was shocked. He tried making (halfhearted) promises, suggesting counseling, etc. And when that didn't work it was hatred, rage, insults, and threats. Same lines...I can't believe you're willing to give up 20 years. Then it was...I can't believe I wasted 20 years on you, nobody else will ever love you, blah blah blah.

And while I did not give him my house, I did end up paying him alimony just to be done. But once I made up my mind I never waivered.

Wishing you peace and strength, whichever path you choose.

[Deby64]

Blink, wow. My story exactly. I refuse to pay him alimony, he chooses not to work. How long did it take for the wave of I love him I love him not to stop? I make myself tired with the back and forth. I believe I'm moving forward using the tools from the toolbox, then I backtrack and crash out by engaging with him in the attempt to defend myself against some irrational statements he makes🤦🏾I get so upset with myself because I know not to take his projection of blame personally. It gets hard to hear I'm the problem all the time. He's going off more and more. I think it's because he's seeing me pull back. Who knows that may be my wishful thinking. I'm a believer and this marriage is making it difficult for me to pray for guidance. He uses so many scriptures it hurts my head. All while thinking he's perfect, sometimes I think he doesn't even know he's not God. The real crazy part is I'm starting to think if I look at some of the stuff he says, I maybe a better person. It's just the insensitive, negative energy he puts into it. Lord Help🙏🏾

[StartingHealing]

Deby64,

To me what you have written is an indication that you are starting to come Out of the FOG (fear, obligation, guilt) having been there, I know it sucks, it's hard, the doubts about myself, it hurts, it hurts really bad, there are questions about being sane, questions about oh so many different things.  I realized that if I was truly insane, I wouldn't be questioning if I were. Then if I'm not off my rocker then what is really going on?  Is all of it my fault as the BPD claims?  Or is the claims just another behavior so they can avoid any accountability / responsibility? 

I was in it to win it, 100% in no reservations. And that got weaponized against me.  Blood, sweat, tears, sleepless nights, working two full time jobs at times, cooking, cleaning, on top of all the other things that I'm competent in, (vehicle repair, construction, etc) and when I started to return to myself, the small amounts of objectivity that occurred were like a bolt from the blue.

It just didn't make no sense that I was grinding away and I was getting fought with on everything at every turn while she refused to contribute in any fashion even with household tasks.  I realized that for me being able to categorize that as being a parasite. You know, something that lives and feeds off another being without providing a lick of benefit. That really hit me hard. Even now some 3 years on, that humbucker still stings.

  there isn't any sort of level playing field with BPD's.  They behave as if they are still 2-3 years old  in an adult body.  They say they want "peace" but their concept of that is everybody around them is to be a biological robot that will destroy it's self in order to provide whatever the BPD desires in the moment.  there is no fairness at all. 

There is no consistency either.  I could do exactly the same action two days apart like making breakfast and get polar opposite reactions.  One day, a smile and what sounded like a sincere "thank you".  The other day, off on a rant about nothing of any consequence.

 An example: There was a time where it was end of the day, getting ready for bed, brushing the teeth, everything appeared to be good leading up to a 6 hour circular argument. She took exception to which direction the toothpaste tube was facing in the drawer under the bathroom sink.  I now know that the rant was her outsourcing her emotional dysfunction on me to regulate it. And not surprisingly, keeping someone from sleeping is a form of abuse.  Work the next day was brutal on me.

The intermittent positive responses were just enough to keep me working at getting more.  And that is the basis for the trauma bond as far as I understand it.  This parasite hacked my emotional wiring is how I phrased it to myself.  That was a bitter pill for me.  Then I started questioning the how, how could I have been suckered in?  How could I have not noticed before getting married? 

It's not fair to myself to judge myself of then with the what I know now. We do need to give ourselves grace. Speaking of grace, read Son of Thunder posts, he is a believer as well and his reasoning and logic concerning getting out of a toxic situation is spot on in my opinion.

The parasite was doing what it does to obtain a host.  Camouflage, mirroring, off the charts bedroom fun, easy division of household responsibilities, agreement on which way to go as a couple in life,  it appeared to me at that time that she was "the one".  This part is the start of the hack. The love-bombing, the adoration, that drops the defenses and allows them to start messing about.  It's extremely effective since all types of folks, from all over the planet, have gotten tangled up just like I did. 

For me knowing that my emotional circuits were compromised allowed me the mental space to perceive things more objectively.  I even went so far as printing the 100 behaviors out (at work) (https://outofthefog.website/traits) and using that as a checklist to verify my own perception of things.  The former spouse did 97 out of the 100 traits. I was able to get a trusted person's take on her which confirmed my own perceptions.

I wish you all the best with this.  It's a hard hard place that your in right now. 

[blunk]

How long did it take for the wave of I love him I love him not to stop?

I had long since stopped loving him. I stayed because I was beaten down, isolated, gaslighted, and so much more. I was in a marriage, but I was so lonely. Like you, I was blamed for everything wrong in the relationship, including things that I never did, felt, or thought. How do you possibly defend what someone wrongly believes that you think about them...?

The things he said and did, were not the words or actions of someone who loved and respected their partner of 20+ years. I remember saying to him, if anyone else in my life ever did/said that to me, they wouldn't be in my life anymore. He asked, then why am I? And my answer was...I don't know.

I finally had to face the reality that he would never change, so I had to.

Now, more than 10 years out, I have no regrets.

[Deby64]

Wow, the reality of this illness is overwhelming. It does seem as if I continue to live focused in leveling the playing field. I know that irrational thinking on my part. I'm just MCing until I have a clear plan on how to escape. Once again if he'd just discard me, that would make my job easier. Currently I'm trying to keep my peace. Remember JADE at all cost. Sometimes he gets frustrated because he'll ask a question that is clear he's wanting me to engage. I don't answer and I can see him start to fume with the attitude. He asked if I was tired of him. I responded I'm tired of life. If I would have said yes, the fight and rage would have followed. Not being able to speak my truth is killing my soul.

[blunk]

So sorry that you are feeling the weight of all of this. And, yes, always having to temper what we say or express is it's own kind of exhausting.

I too got to the point of wishing for a discard...that he'd find someone else...that he'd finally follow through on threats of divorce. But in his mind that would have made him the bad guy, and I ALWAYS had to be the bad guy.

There was definitely a shift when I started No JADE and/or MC. He'd say things like, I'm just trying to have a nice conversation with you (Hint: it was not at all a nice conversation), and all I get a yes and no answers. He was also a lover of the no-win situation/conversation. If I agreed with him I was being patronizing, if I disagreed I was difficult or a b!tch, and if I said nothing I didn't care. So I asked, what could I have said in that situation that would not have upset you. His answer...nothing.

Sometimes just for a moment they show their true selves. The trick is believing them when they do.

[Deby64]

Blink, you are telling my story. I just hope and pray I'll get the courage to change the things I can. By walking away🙏🏾. I don't mind being the B**ch, or the bad one couldn't commit.

[MaxedOut]

Blink, wow. My story exactly. I refuse to pay him alimony, he chooses not to work. How long did it take for the wave of I love him I love him not to stop? I make myself tired with the back and forth. I believe I'm moving forward using the tools from the toolbox, then I backtrack and crash out by engaging with him in the attempt to defend myself against some irrational statements he makes

Deby64, two perspectives to share from my experience. First, documenting made a huge difference. It wasn't journaling, but more quickish recalls of things my ex did/said, what I then did/said, etc. I didn't beat myself up about JADEing or getting emotionally activated, but I did note it, and note what were sort of default tactics/behaviors of my ex. I used a Google doc as that was easy for me to use on tablet, laptop, etc. but log-in protected.

That did a few things: 1) I was able to see "cycle of abuse" patterns and I hadn't really thought of it that way (this helped me get unstuck and know better when things would soon be getting rougher); 2) It helped me detach a bit from the interactions and events, seeing things more as observational which meant they ruffled me less and I better saw categorical behaviors; 3) It helped me see what made things a bit better in terms of my emotional reactions or setting boundaries; 4) It revealed a few things like me asserting a boundary and sticking to it in certain circumstances would result in stepwise escalations in behavior that got pretty extreme as she (subconsciously) tried to regain control; 5) It showed just how much and often I was dealing with abusive behaviors (very sobering to see).

Second, part of my process was getting used to the possibility of alimony and house value cash-out as that is about the legal system and divorce laws in your state. You may or may not end up with temporary spousal support or no support or something ongoing. A consult with a lawyer can help shed light on it. But, I could either accept X years of alimony and settlement $ and work through that. Or I could put up with more years of abusive and manipulative behaviors where I was the primary earner, then still pay X+ years of alimony (at least, since length of marriage often increases length of alimony) and more settlement $$ as mortgages got paid, house values and investments appreciated, etc.

Here's the other thing: alimony is a set amount, predictable, controllable. That is so much better, to me at least, then being the main breadwinner, having to make sure we stayed afloat financially, getting angry outbursts about money or budget, not having a partner who could collaboratively discuss financials, etc.

[Deby64]

Ok, update on my current situation. I had a total right hip replacement on Friday. I posted elsewhere how horrible that experience was with my updn-H. I printed out a divorce decree to which he agreed to. It leaves him living in our home, me paying the mortgage. He gives up all rights to my retirement, 401 and any other assets I may have. I will remain 50% owner of our home until it's paid off. Just did a refinance so that's a good 15 years. Found a home to move into and will have family clean it and help me move my things out of our home. Updn-H vacillating from sweet let me help you to rage, you not leaving me,I'm the one that wants you gone. Can't believe you are throwing away 40 years because you can't submit to me.  My daughter praise God is being my rock, telling me set a firm boundary, don't allow him to help or come to the new place. He is really working on continues rage because every utility in our home is in my name. He wants me to leave it that way. I told him no, but I'd get the financial responsibilities put in his name on his SS#, I'm transferring my utilities so I don't have to pay new deposits. This is one of hardest emotional things I've done. I'm  doing my best to detach from emotions, stop feeling sorry for him and do what's in my best interest. Hope to be fully out within the week. I'm putting lots of pressure on my recent hip surgery, but I want my freedom and the opportunity seems to be here now.

[square]

Holy moly, Deby. We're all with you.

[blunk]

Your daughter sounds wise. So glad that she is there for you. Wishing you well in your recovery from surgery and your upcoming move.

Speaking from the experience of many here...it is hard, but it is worth it to have peace in a new home of your own.