Friend brings teenage daughter along to every get together

[TimetoHeal]

I guess I just need some feedback as to if this is normal.  I have a friend I have considered very close for many years.  We have been through a lot together.  When our kids were little and we were both stay at home moms, we got together for play dates like the zoo, the park, etc.

Now we are in a very different stage of life.  My kids are both grown and working.  Her kids are a little bit younger, but the oldest is away at college and the youngest is in high school.  Whenever I make plans with my friend (lunch, dinner, movie, whatever) she will tell me after the fact of making plans that her daughter will be joining us and sometimes her daughter's friends too!  Don't get me wrong, I adore her daughter.  I have literally seen her since my friend was pregnant with her and growing up all these years.  I wouldn't even mind if she came along with us sometimes.  But every time?  This child is a teenager and plenty old to stay by herself for an hour or two or even longer.  Also, I feel it's a little inconsiderate for my friend not to even ask me, "Do you mind if 'Janie' comes along?" but just tell me she is. 

Any thoughts?  I swear I feel like I have almost no models of healthy relationships, I don't even know what's normal! 

[GoodPesto]

Hi Timetoheal,

I am happy to share my thoughts with you. Regards your question about "normal", I do not know. It could be depending on the involved familys' history (did they meet in groups most of the time over the years?) but maybe it's not that important. It bothers you and that is what's important beside any norm, I guess.
Especially when you've been friends since forever and watched each other's kids grow up, it could be that it simply does not cross your friend's mind that you'd rather spent time with her alone to e.g. talk about grown up stuff. It could also be that her daughter thinks you're absolutely fantastic company and wants to come along because she adores you, too, enjoys spending time with you, etc. It could also be her mom lacks whatever it needs to leave her youngest alone at home and she has to come if she wants or not. Do you know?
Whatever the reason and the norm is, I think this could be an excellent opportunity to ask your friend for what you want. You could ask her for some 1:1 time and see what happens. You could invite explicitly both of them next time. Enjoy!

[Rebel13]

Whatever the reason and the norm is, I think this could be an excellent opportunity to ask your friend for what you want. You could ask her for some 1:1 time and see what happens. You could invite explicitly both of them next time. Enjoy!

I agree! You get to want what you want, no matter what is "normal." And making a date with your friend specifically saying "just the two of us this time" could give you some good information about your friend, what is going on, what the relationship is like for her, etc. Then you can make further decisions based on what you learn and how you feel about it.

[TimetoHeal]

Thank you Good Pesto and Rebel,
I'm sorry if this is a double post, I thought I posted and then it was gone.  LOL

Good Pesto, I know that part of the problem is that I have a very hard time asking for what I want without fear of retaliation or even losing the relationship.  If you've read my posts about my uPD mother, you understand I have good reason to feel that way!

I think asking her directly for just some "adult" time and seeing how it goes is a good idea.  You're right, Rebel, iit would give me a lot more information. 

[GoodPesto]

I am very familiar with that fear timetoheal, it has been immensly hard for me as well. Sorry if my reply did not seem understanding, I totally get it but was maybe cheering you on too much. I hope all goes well.

[TimetoHeal]

I am very familiar with that fear timetoheal, it has been immensly hard for me as well. Sorry if my reply did not seem understanding, I totally get it but was maybe cheering you on too much. I hope all goes well.

No, I didn't think that at all! You sounded very supportive.  Thank you! 

[square]

Just some phrasing ideas.

Next time she says that her daughter is joining, you could aceept that time but use it as an opportunity to give a heads up:

"Sure, it will be lovely to see Jane tonight! I was thinking that nsxt time it would be fun to do just the two of us, though, what do you think?"

"Just like old times"

"Sometimes it's nice to do one on one"

Or you could set the expectation upfront:

"Shall we meet at __ tonight? Great. I was hoping it could just be us two girls this time, will that work? I love seeing Jane but I also love getting some one on one with you."

[TimetoHeal]

Just some phrasing ideas.

Next time she says that her daughter is joining, you could aceept that time but use it as an opportunity to give a heads up:

"Sure, it will be lovely to see Jane tonight! I was thinking that nsxt time it would be fun to do just the two of us, though, what do you think?"

"Just like old times"

"Sometimes it's nice to do one on one"

Or you could set the expectation upfront:

"Shall we meet at __ tonight? Great. I was hoping it could just be us two girls this time, will that work? I love seeing Jane but I also love getting some one on one with you."

Thank you, square!  This helps me so much to see thing in black and white like this!  I will print and use these!

[walking on broken glass]

I agree with all the above!
You could also ask her to go out for a drink later at night, when she couldn't bring her daughter, and say something like 'it will be nice to be the two of us for a change'.

For the record, I don't think this is very healthy. I hope she is not enmeshed with her daughter.

[Catothecat]

Does your friend also suggest get-togethers where she brings her daughter?

Unfortunately, I wonder as well if this is an enmeshment situation.  Since you've known your friend for such a long time, what type of dynamic do you see going on? 

Also, could this be her way of placing a barrier (i.e., her daughter) between the two of you as a way of avoiding certain conversations? 

I can understand your discomfort over this, because if it was me in your situation I would certainly wonder what was really going on, as well. It would make me feel as if I wasn't interesting enough and the visit needed more participants!

Yes it could all be nothing, or it could be something, but if your gut is telling you this is getting a little weird, it merits attention.  And I agree with the suggestion that the next time you suggest a get-together, you specify "just us" and see how she reacts. 

[treesgrowslowly]

It's the way she's doing it - she's adding this info after the fact, and not asking you in a real way. If you are very close friends, you should be able to talk to her about how you would like some visits to be just the 2 of you.

If she's able to actually ask you "I want to bring my daughter but if you want it to be just the 2 of us I totally understand" that would give you a real choice. The way you describe, she didn't give you the option. If you are not close friends, then you probably won't be able to talk with her about it. There could be lots of reasons why she's doing this. But the bottom line is that if you want time with her alone, you could say that and see what she says.

Trees

[TimetoHeal]

Tree, Cat, and WOBG,

I'm so sorry I didn't see your later replies until just now! 

I do think there is some enmeshment going on with my friend and her daughter.  Often, when we go out together, my friend spends most of her time finding things to buy for her daughter, making sure she has just the right thing to eat and drink, and spending quite a bit of money, even though she constantly says she is in debt and needs to quit spending...so, yeah, there is some unhealthiness going on there.  Also, there is an element that my friend tries to "book" every single second of her life and her daughter's life, so it's like she is trying to do 2 things at once just to "fit everybody in".  This has been going on for a while, and I feel silly that I have not brought it up.  I have a strong avoidance to confrontation, and it often presents as me just brushing things under the carpet until I can't anymore. 

Our last get together didn't happen for various reasons like the weather, so I will have an opportunity to suggest a "grown up" activity with just us and seen what happens.  I guess it will tell me a lot. 

[Rebel13]

Please let us know how this goes for you TtH!

[TimetoHeal]

Please let us know how this goes for you TtH!

Thank you, Rebel!  I will!

[TimetoHeal]

Update since some of you had asked me to  : 

My friend and I had a nice dinner last weekend, just the two of us.  I didn't say "just the two of us" up front, because I felt like that might start off on the wrong foot, but I decided I would say I was hoping it would be just the two of us if she said she was bringing her daughter again.  Thankfully, she didn't. She did make a comment though when we got to talking about our kids in general that her daughter is her best friend.    That felt weird to me, maybe because my mother who is very enmeshed with me, or has been, would say the same thing.

Anyway, overall, it was a very pleasant dinner, and I do value our friendship.  On the whole, I feel like it is one worth continuing. 

[Rebel13]

That's a very encouraging update! I hope the relationship will continue to be good for you.

I've always been suspicious of the mother-daughter "best friend" narrative as well, but I don't know if that's just because my mother was the opposite of a best friend to me. I imagine you will observe more over time and be able to draw more conclusions about this specific situation.

[TimetoHeal]

Thank you so much, Rebel!  I agree, it is weird to me as well because of my own relationship with my mother.  She acted like she hated me most of my life until my father passed away, and then she started with the "best friend" thing.  But maybe in some healthy families it can be a good thing?  Who knows?  I've never been in a healthy family.  LOL.

I really appreciate your encouraging words.   

[walking on broken glass]

I would also be very suspicious of the 'best friends' statement. It doesn't sound healthy to me. Is she watching too much Gilmore Girls? 😜

I am glad you had a nice time out with your friend without needing to have a difficult conversation!

[1footouttadefog]

I am guessing this will need addressed at some point, keep it on the edge of your mind.