Tips for difficult conversation with PD mother

[sweet1987]

Hi all,
Hoping for any advise and support with this situation. My mum has an uPD, I stayed home until 30 a very unhealthy enmeshed, codependent relationship,mum being verbally and emotionally abusive, manipulation, shaming, love bombing, rages that last for hours etc..went no contact, then low contact, 10 years on the relationship is much calmer, my mother hasn't done any self work so still has these traits but mainly via text now as I'm not there and way less often. My mum also has a disability which makes things even harder, she is mainly house bound, refused cleaners up until recently, and I am down as her carer, I have been doing what I can but I also suffer with cptsd and get triggered by even entering the home and can't be around my mum for long periods of time even though she is being fine, it's still affected me.
I am currently going through my own mental health, anxiety and depression  along with health issues, and taking care of my son and just finding the whole thing to much. I also feel that I am probably not fit to be my mother's carers as she needs more support than I can give, I want to tell her that I want to hand this over so she can get more support as it's not healthy for her to just be inside all day every day in a home that's impossible to stay fully clean  due to hoarding clutter and my limitations with what I can do, I finally got cleaners in after my mum agreed but even they don't do allot.
I feel she needs more support someone for appointments, help around the home, going out etc, which I do help with but not to the scale she needs. Any who I know when I say this to her it's going to be a huge reaction and the little girl in me is so scared. I know I'm an adult but I still feel like ima  and daughter if I don't do what she wants, I feel sick in my stomach every time I think about having this conversation with her and I feel stuck, but I'm so overwhelmed I just don't want to have this pressure on me on too of everything else. I feel like trying to have a relationship with PD mother is enough on it's own outside of the caring addition. I want to say to her that I will still help with some things and I will still see her but I want to remove being the carer and get more support to help her as I am also worried about her. She is very overweight and stuck inside all the time. I feel guilty that it should be me to fix this. Even though I know it's not down to me, idk I have allot of compassion for my mother cos I know she has been through allot but I also can't cope myself. I'm just scared of the back lash her usually response is fine I'll do everything myself. But she cant and then what do I do?

[sweet1987]

Forgot to mention when I do something she doesn't like. I get bombarded with horrible messages, shame guilt and blame, then she Starts comparing me to other peoples children and what they do for their parents. Putting things up on her status about me, threatening suicide even at times. It's just allot and even though I know it's part of the manipulation it works because I feel like a bad daughter, and I don't have much mental strength at the moment

[GoodPesto]

Hi sweet1987,

it's understandable you are being stressed over this, even if you were fit this could quickly be too much.
After having read both your posts I wondered if it might be a strategy worth trying to tell your mother that you would like to help her very very much, but that unfortunately you are too weak/sick yourself to support her in the way she deserves.
I don't know if you have shared personal information about your health with her, you wouldn't have to tell her the truth, you could serve half truths or bend the truth as much as you like.
This is the only thing my brain came up with considering your situation (apart from not having the talk at all which could be an option as well). I imagine that if you approach the talk like that it could be possible she feels safe enough because you display your love and an impersonal reason why you're not able to do what you would "like" to do if you weren't sick yourself.

If she says fine, I'll do everything myself, then why not take her word for it and let her be? You are not responsible for her the way you feel. But you are responsible for yourself and your son.
And your son.
It's not your fault she has a PD, it's not your fault she is disabled and you did not force her to become overweight. You have sympathy for her, that's plenty and maybe it helps you to realise that you truly can't help her but that helping her would also mean to enable her at the cost of your own health.

If suicide is being threatened at some point it would be a clear-cut case to call 911. This is too much on anybody regardless of relationship or kinship. I am typing this because you might not be able to see this.

-> I want to say to her that I will still help with some things and I will still see her but I want to remove being the carer and get more support to help her as I am also worried about her.

I would rethink this, especially the first part because I imagine it invites her to hear "I will help and see you". Thus if she needs help, and it sounds like it, she will keep thinking it will be coming from you.

Be gentle with yourself. This is difficult. You worked hard to get out of this and you are still feeling the aftermaths of your upbringen. You can be proud of yourself and withstand being sucked back into her orbit, I am positive.
GoodPesto1986
 

[NarcKiddo]

 

I would suggest that you maybe find out what organisations or people can do the things that need doing. Much as you did with the cleaners.

I guess she needs to agree to pay for this help and to allow access to her home for them to carry it out, much as (I assume) she had to for the cleaners. But this does not need to be a rod for her to beat you with, even though she may try.

Maybe you speak with somebody who can do the tasks, and who is prepared to try to help in the face of a possibly difficult reaction from your mother initially. They must be used to this sort of thing. Especially if maybe local authority social services could point you in the direction of the correct person. Then you just visit your mother one day with this person in tow. Inform her, in the presence of this person, that you cannot continue. This person (or their organisation) can and they are there to discuss the logistics. You agree in advance with this person that if your mother pitches a fit you calmly inform her that you cannot help and this person can. You maybe give her a list of contact numbers for other avenues of help if she cannot reach agreement with the person you brought. And then you leave. And you block her texts and social media for a while, and get a report afterwards from the person of what actually went down.

Of course it would be "nice" to discuss it with her first and get her agreement, like you eventually managed with the cleaners, but if you know she is going to raise hell then you need to protect yourself. Also, if you are truly worried about her and she refuses new help, you do at least have a point of contact via the cleaners if anything bad starts happening.

You say you are "down as her carer". With who? Maybe you need to contact whatever authority thinks you are her carer and inform them that you can no longer do this.

I realise this all sounds a bit harsh and of course it is much easier for me to suggest it than for you to actually do it. But you are not wrong to look after yourself, too. Your primary duty is to your son, not her.

[sweet1987]

Thank you all so much for reading and your replies🙏🏽🙏🏽

[bloomie]

sweet1987 - this is such a gut wrenching position to be put in as you are sandwiched between your mother's needs, your own, and of course, your son's. It always helps me to ask myself this question when faced with so many pressing issues as once.

"What is mine to do?"

Caring for yourself so that you can care for your child seems like a wise priority.

It is also important to recognize that the best possible thing you can do for your mother, as her adult child, is to return to her all of the things she is capable of, or able to do, for herself. Doing as much as she can for herself for as long as she can is a vital part of healthy aging.

Can your mother make phone calls? Seems like she can text, so assuming she can. There are great social service resources through organizations like Counsel on Aging - if available in her area.
https://www.ncoa.org

And that support and help could be accessed by a phone call from your mother for her own needs. And that is just one suggestion of a comprehensive resource.

Sometimes I have found myself in the midst of serving an elder's needs to the point of severe depletion. I never agreed to the level of care and support I was doing, it was simply expected of me and everyone else had gone into the woodwork when an elder's needs could no longer be ignored.

Reclaiming your energy and peace is NOT unkind. It is NOT failing someone. Knowing your limits and living within them is healthy and an important part of adulting. Having the time and space to care for your child and yourself is what love looks like.

From what you shared, it seems like your mother's choices over time have greatly contributed to the fix she finds herself in. You didn't cause this, you can't change this, and you can't control it.

I feel like trying to have a relationship with PD mother is enough on it's own outside of the caring addition.

Yes! You are 100% correct. This is enough. And that is quite generous and lovely of you to do.

[bloomie]

popping back in to mention... tips for difficult conversations...

"this is a hard conversation for both of us, but going forward I am not able to coordinate your care or living needs.."
"This is not easy to say..."

Say it one time. Don't apologize or fawn or change your direct message. Rip that bandage off and set yourself free! Do it afraid and then drop the rope. If she responds abusively... you protect your peace and end the conversation. And come back and let us know how you are!

[Adria]

Sweet1987,

I'm so sorry. What a difficult situation to be in. 

Would it help to sit down and write a list for yourself of the things that you would like to help her with. And, then go talk with her and say, "Ya know mom, these are the things I'm able to do for you at this time as I'm busy with my son and I'm exhausted myself right now." Then, maybe follow up and ask her what are the tasks that she is capable of and write a second column for her.  And, then you could maybe say something like, "Let's make a plan on finding some help for the rest of these issues and see how it goes. We can always adjust later."  Just trying to think of presentation that could get her more in tune with you. If you made it sound like you were coming up with a plan along with her to tag team this.

You have to be strong and know that you are doing the best you can with this situation.  She sounds quite demanding. If she gets upset with you, that is on her. Keep your boundaries, try and maintain an unbothered stance, knowing that you love her and are doing the best you can. And do it oh, so kindly. Hugs, Adria

[TimetoHeal]

Great advice from everyone.  I agree completely, as I was just in this same situation with my mother, and still am to a great degree, but I am finally getting help.  Please find all the resources that you can to help and take the burden off yourself.  Get this in place ASAP before the walls come crashing in as they did for my mother.  She is not going to like it, but that doesn't matter.  You absolutely have to put your health first, and then decide what, if anything, you are able and willing to do and give under the circumstances. Legally speaking, unless you are her POA and she has been declared incompetent, you don't HAVE to do anything.  I know this a gross oversimplification though, because we often feel the need to help out family members and would even like to, to some extent.  Just not to the extent that they feel entitled to and that depletes us.  But it helps me at least to know that anything I choose to do for my mother, I CHOOSE to do and I can stop it at any time.  No one can make me but me. 

As far as the conversation, I can't predict how your mother will react, but for mine, it took my brother stepping in (her POA) and saying, "I am taking over from here" (mom has not been declared incompetent, but her life had become a mess, and she was willing to let him do this).  No gentle asking, prodding, or reasoning worked with my mother the last 6 years.  She literally needed someone to say, "That's it.  This is how it's going to be".  I don't necessarily suggest you do that, especially if you are not her POA and don't have that authority.  But you need to state what you are and are not willing to do very clearly and firmly and do not ask her permission to implement it.  Of course, if it involves someone coming in her house or her using her financial resources, then she will have to agree.  But if she refuses this, it does NOT mean that it falls on you.  Read that again.

Good luck!  I know how incredibly hard this is!  If your mother is in the "elderly" age group, you might benefit from reading and posting in that forum.  I spend most of my time there. 

[TimetoHeal]

Forgot to mention when I do something she doesn't like. I get bombarded with horrible messages, shame guilt and blame, then she Starts comparing me to other peoples children and what they do for their parents. Putting things up on her status about me, threatening suicide even at times. It's just allot and even though I know it's part of the manipulation it works because I feel like a bad daughter, and I don't have much mental strength at the moment

Oh, I can quite relate to this as well.  If she says it again when you are with her, I would respond very Medium Chill, like, "Oh, isn't that nice that works for them" or something. And as far as social media, I have blocked my mother and don't know or care what she posts on there. Have also stopped caring what she tells other people about her useless daughter.  Actually, right now I am on her "great daughter" side, because I have been helping her move into assisted living, taking her to follow up doctors' appointments, etc.  All my choice to get her settled and get her (me) some help.  But when I back off again, as I intend to do, the passive-aggressive comments are sure to resume!  Oh, well!

[sweet1987]

Thank you all so much for your replies, I honestly didn't expect this much support and it really means a lot. Reading through everything has been so validating and reassuring, especially when I've been second guessing myself.

I can really relate to what a lot of you said about fear and how hard it is to be direct. I do struggle with confrontation, and I can see how my inner child still gets scared of being told off or seen as "bad."

I'm back in counselling and really trying to work on being clearer, more direct and holding my boundaries, even when it feels uncomfortable.

I really appreciate all the advice, shared experiences, and resources, it's helped me feel less alone in this. Thank you 🤍