"family therapy" was terrible

[Tribe16]

The therapist kept saying "I am at a loss" and "what do you suggest" and "you agreed to reconciliation therapy." WHICH I DID NOT AGREE TO! I agreed to MEDIATION. How on earth could we "reconcile" and "repair" (two words she kept using) a relationship that my parents refuse to agree to stop actively harming first?! We can't repair anything if they are still harming! 

SBS, I'm so sorry for you. Sounds like a stressful disaster that didn't do anything other than confirm how your parents have snowed their therapist. I've never heard of a "Reconciliation Therapist" and I looked this up:

How is a "reconciliation therapist" different?
While reconciliation is a common goal in many types of therapy, a therapist specializing in this area has specific training and expertise. This differs from general counseling in a few key ways:

Goal-oriented: The process is highly structured and focuses on specific, measurable goals related to repairing the relationship, rather than being open-ended.

Specialized skills: The therapist guides parties through difficult processes like rebuilding trust and managing extreme conflict. This is different from the general advocacy of a traditional therapist, and it may require challenging the perceptions of a resistant party.

I'm no expert, but the fact that this therapist is taking your parents money, and I'm assuming wants to continue, she is more or less advocating for them and not you. And in her eyes, you are probably the "resistant party" (understandably so!!!) and I can see why it felt like you were being thrown under the bus.

Not all therapists are trauma-informed. I've learned this the hard way. But the ones who are, aren't going to be so easily snowed by charmers with PDs.

I'm glad for you that the therapy nightmare with your parents is over. Free at last!

[Liketheducks]

Therapists are human.   I have a cousin who is one specializing in PTSD.   My mother was able to rope her into being a very hurtful flying monkey.   At one point, the lady private messaged me on social media to tell me that she could stand to see how happy I looked in photos when she "KNEW" what I had done to my dear mother.        I instantly blocked her.   

Sounds like you have the answers you need to keep those boundaries intact.   I'm sorry it has to be this way.   That being said, if this was a stranger, you'd have no hesitation to be NC.   

[bloomie]

SaintBlackSheep - So, according to this therapist, you can't discuss the past... How do we work through behaviors that are deal breakers for us without discussing them? What is the set point to work forward from then?

My mom made some sad plea about how they just can't possibly be careful with how they treat us because Ive shut them out and they don't know what's going on in my life so how could they know how to treat me?

Common courtesy and respectful, truthful communication which creates an atmosphere of personal responsibility and safety to everyone.  Behaving in loving ways, speaking with consideration and kindness toward family members, taking care to be equitable to the children, does not require your parents having access to what is going on in your life to know this the appropriate way to live.

These are starting gate behaviors in family relationships if the parents/grandparents want to continue to have the great privilege and joy of being a part - whatever part you decide - of your lives.

Your parents don't seem to understand that the power differential that was there when you were a child in their home is LONG over. And it is not yours to explain that to them as it truly seems they do not have ears to hear and eyes to see the consequences of their own behaviors.

Let the healing begin as you can know you have gone a long ways to try and try again. May peace wash over you today as you gather your beautiful family to you and refuse to abandon yourself and your children in order to have a 'relationship' with these folks and line up with a therapist who does not know you OR your parents.

[Rebel13]

My mom made some sad plea about how they just can't possibly be careful with how they treat us because I've shut them out and they don't know what's going on in my life so how could they know how to treat me?

Common courtesy and respectful, truthful communication which creates an atmosphere of personal responsibility and safety to everyone. 

 

I mean, these people and their garbage. For real? Like, how do they know how to treat the checker at the grocery store since obviously they don't know what's going on in her life??!?!?

There are social norms and everyone knows it, and knows what they are, like bloomie says. That kind of twisted nonsense is mind-boggling. They're so good at making us feel like maybe we really ARE the problem. There's a reason Chumplady talks about the "mindf*ck blender" and advises not sticking one's head in it.

SBS, your description of leaving the house during the scene after your mother-in-law's funeral made my stomach hurt. I'm so sorry. Please take care of you and your immediate family.

[Tribe16]

Therapists are human.   I have a cousin who is one specializing in PTSD.   My mother was able to rope her into being a very hurtful flying monkey.   At one point, the lady private messaged me on social media to tell me that she could stand to see how happy I looked in photos when she "KNEW" what I had done to my dear mother.        I instantly blocked her.   

Ugh, LTD, I'd be sorely compelled to file a complaint against a therapist that used those kind of tactics. That's awful.

[SaintBlackSheep]

Like, how do they know how to treat the checker at the grocery store since obviously they don't know what's going on in her life??!?!?

For real! That's what I'm saying! Mother also "set a boundary" that when we do talk one on one (lol!) that we limit our conversation to avoid THEM getting their "feelings damaged!" She said she needs to talk to catch up and say what SHE needs to say, but basically doesnt want to hear anything else we have to say. For a while now, I'm always getting calls from them during events that make the national news, such as wildfires and hurricanes, just because their friends watch the news and see the disasters near us, then ask my parents how we're doing. Since July, they've had ZERO updates on how we're doing. Clearly, they just want the updates so they have something to tell their friends. Then they want to be able to make whatever thoughtless mean comments to me, but cut the conversation short before I get a change to tell them how their behaviors and comments are hurtful, which "damages their feelings." I'll call the WHAaaaaambulance for their poor damaged feelings! And of course, they make every single thing about themselves and how they are feeling, never once considering the feelings of me or my family, and actively avoiding everything that isn't about them, or the information they want from us.
My question is, how do I stop caring? Now I feel like, since I told them and their therapist I won't be engaging in their "family therapy" anymore, what now? I have 100 different scenarios mulling around in my head, and I really just don't want to waste another braincell on them. But these intrusive thoughts won't quit.

[Call Me Cordelia]

My question is, how do I stop caring? Now I feel like, since I told them and their therapist I won't be engaging in their "family therapy" anymore, what now? I have 100 different scenarios mulling around in my head, and I really just don't want to waste another braincell on them. But these intrusive thoughts won't quit.

I really don't think you'll be stuck there forever. My take is this is fresh, it sucks, it really really sucks, and it's such a mind bender that talking it out and working it out and exercising/writing/grieving/angering it out it 100% appropriate and needed. If both of your parents died, just about anyone would expect you to be grieving for a time. The loss you are facing is like that, but more complicated and harder to come to terms with. I suggest just letting the feelings be, at least for a little while. I believe it would be worse long term to suppress it all. You will get to where you're just so over the whole thing.

Speaking to myself here too, because gosh I've been NC for years and yep, I still do need a place to grieve sometimes. Is it annoying? Sometimes. But it's not nearly like it was. You're in therapy, you're doing healthy things besides stewing on your parents. You will get to where you have more energy for the positive things in your life and the grief will quiet down. You are setting boundaries and protecting your peace exactly so you can have that joy in your life. I think you are doing so well!

[doglady]

I agree with CMC that you're doing a wonderful job SBS. Please be gentle with yourself and treat yourself as you would a good friend.

I completely understand the wish to not have the intrusive thoughts and to not want to care. But you care because you are a decent person. And your brain keeps trying to work it all out because human beings want solutions, hence the intrusive thoughts. The difficulty is that there usually is no solution when it comes to dysfunctional families. The only solution are far as I have learned is to do what protects your own mental health.

Your parents seem so invested in protecting and defending their warped version of events. Let them, I guess. And I wholeheartedly support your decision not to participate any further in whatever the hell that 'therapy' was.

I hope that you are able to get some much deserved distance from this insanity.

[SaintBlackSheep]

Well here I was, enjoying the last remnants of my weekend, when nMom decided to text me out of the blue. She said
"We are fine. Wishing the same for our family. We  have therapy tomorrow which it is progressing with learning communication skills.

Since our visits during the holidays are causing an imposition on family time ,as you stated , we of course never want to cause a stressful time during the holidays.

We miss you and love you all always and hope we can talk soon ."

So, to an outside observer, this does not seem like a particularly inflammatory text. But does anyone else notice how, right after commenting on going to therapy to progress with communication skills, she refuses to come right out and say that they will not be visiting for the holidays?! (as if they were invited!) AND manages to do so with a hint of blame towards me?! I literally never said they were an imposition. Calling their narcissistic abuse, triangulation, and unfair treatment of my daughters "an imposition" is rich.
So now instead of enjoying this first cold windy fall day with my fireplace burning and cupcakes my daughter made, I'm actively trying to process the cortisol injection that text gave me. I have notifications from her silenced, but had been chatting with an old friend who just moved away so I saw the text come through.

[Call Me Cordelia]

You are right. She's still weaponizing communication to control the narrative. You know she does this. We won't come because we're so considerate of your feelings even though we haven't done anything but try to learn to communicate! Yep. I see it.

Can you block her all together?

[walking on broken glass]

I agree with Cordelia, block her! It will give you peace. That text is so passive aggressive and manipulative. It's so insidious, what they do.

[Lillith65]

I've read your thread and have to say that I agree with blocking her. It seems to me that she is weaponising therapy by emphasising the work they are doing and implying that you are unwilling or unable to do the work with them. As you and I both know, that's not what real therapy is for.

Up to you how you do it: silently or setting out your reasons (without allowing further engagement). Just remember that you are entitled to choose who you have an active relationship with, and you have the right to protect yourself and your family.

[moglow]

My immediate gut response:
Oh thank goodness you cleared that up! I was so afraid you were sitting there waiting for an invitation. Confirming for you that it wasn't going to happen, so do have a blessed holiday season. 

Send that in your mind only, and repeat to self: do not respond, do not respond, do not respond. Please go back and rejoin the lovely fall day already in progress.

[SaintBlackSheep]

Oh my gosh thank you, kind folks! Cordelia: "Yep. I see it." Man, wow, those few simple words are everything.
I have this "Shit Daughter" voice playing in my head that my poor old parents just want to spend the holidays with us, their only child and grandchildren, and how rotten I must be to keep them away from their only family, bla bla bla. I feel SO GUILTY! OMG. And then I reflect on all their bullshit and feel rage. Then guilt. Then the urge to reach out. Then I feel stupid for thinking that. Then rage again. Stop this merry-go-round! I hate it! I am also feeling such peace at times, when I consider a holiday season without having to consider them. I am realizing how much energy I've wasted trying to pretzel myself into pleasing them when they are displeased chronically, and then the rage comes when I think about how my kids haven't had a single peaceful Christmas in 5 years because my parents always come down and inevitably cause drama, every.single.visit. Yes, there are some nice moments too. Just like in abusive marriages, there can still be some nice moments here and there. But abuse is still abuse. (I have worked in the field of domestic violence and can support an abused woman like a pro, but struggle so much to give the same kind of gentleness to myself. I know better. This feels insane.)
Ugh the spiral! The merry-go-round! YUK! Thank you all for your comments. Aside from my therapist, they are all I have. My partner is supportive to an extent but also has narc parents, his mother just died in July, and he doesn't ever know the right words to say. His strength is more of an acts of service kind of love, not so much a words of encouragement and support kind.

[Rebel13]

I feel SO GUILTY! OMG. And then I reflect on all their bullshit and feel rage. Then guilt. Then the urge to reach out. Then I feel stupid for thinking that. Then rage again. Stop this merry-go-round! I hate it!

Ugh. I hate it too. My therapist calls this "the trauma swirl." For me it's partly physiological, so physical interventions that calm the nervous system have helped me a lot -- breathing exercises, rocking, tactile stuff like washing my face with cold water, holding/squeezing an ice cube, bilateral stimulation (tapping your shoulders with the opposite hands etc.) I also got one of those executive desk toys that spins and I spin that and watch it, telling myself that I'm externalizing the swirl so it's not stuck inside me/I'm not stuck inside it. (This is the one I have but there are tons of them.)

Like doglady said, our brains definitely want to find a solution -- and often we were expected to be the problem solvers in our families -- so another thing that helps me is telling myself, "I don't have to decide right now," or "I don't have to solve this problem right now." Or even "This isn't my problem to solve." I've been AMAZED at the amount of relief I get from letting myself off the hook for figuring it all out RIGHT NOW.

Wishing you the best. They sure do know how to get us.

[bloomie]

SaintBlackSheep -

Stop this merry-go-round! I hate it! I am also feeling such peace at times, when I consider a holiday season without having to consider them. I am realizing how much energy I've wasted trying to pretzel myself into pleasing them when they are displeased chronically, and then the rage comes when I think about how my kids haven't had a single peaceful Christmas in 5 years because my parents always come down and inevitably cause drama, every.single.visit.

Did you ever, one single solitary time, agree to spending every holiday with your parents? Set aside for the moment their toxic behaviors, just in general, did you and your beautiful family agree to 'be' their holiday experience at the cost of your own family of choice's freedom to make plans and enjoy making memories as you want, see fit, dream of?

I ask, because I didn't know to ask myself this question when in the gut clenching throes of the annual holiday round robin of crap behavior and unrealistic expectations of my own parents and in law parents that went on for far too long. 

The ramping up of one double bind and no win situation after another that began several months ahead of the holidays happened every. single. year. 

It is within your power to take a break from this and plan a holiday that will be filled with peace, memory making, gentle moments and joy. Given the years of dysfunction and this recent past damaging time spent with your parents and the 'therapy' that has taken a huge bite out of your heart and mind, there will also be moments of discomfort and grief as you choose differently this year. (if you choose to do so)

You didn't cause it, you can't change it, and you cannot control it. But, you can move forward making an agreement with yourself as to how much of yourself and the life and family you have built in love you will give over to all of this. I don't write that glibly... I know with all of myself how turning from the way we have always coped can feel like a free fall. I know this is as hard as it gets! Here rooting for you!!! 

[Call Me Cordelia]

I'm thinking of you and as we're coming up on another holiday season. The Christmas music is starting here in the US so here go all the triggers along with it! Bah humbug!

I am also feeling such peace at times, when I consider a holiday season without having to consider them. I am realizing how much energy I've wasted trying to pretzel myself into pleasing them when they are displeased chronically, and then the rage comes when I think about how my kids haven't had a single peaceful Christmas in 5 years because my parents always come down and inevitably cause drama, every.single.visit.

St. Black Sheep, I could have written that. If it helps you, an early Christmas after NC I expected that I was going to be an absolute mess, but come hell or high water I was going to protect my kids from any drama. I was half-certain the Jerry Springer show would show up on my front lawn. So we took a trip somewhere we'd never been and was hard to get to and told no one ahead of time. I took the week off from internet access. It was perfect. For Christmas week anyway, I felt safe. There was no drama. We had fun. I did zero entertaining or cleaning or fussing. I highly recommend this approach to the holiday if you can do it. After all I had gone through, I needed to completely break the old patterns for a year.

[Liketheducks]

I'm totally trying to find a way to be out of town for this holiday season.   Last year was a LOT

[SaintBlackSheep]

Did you ever, one single solitary time, agree to spending every holiday with your parents? Set aside for the moment their toxic behaviors, just in general, did you and your beautiful family agree to 'be' their holiday experience at the cost of your own family of choice's freedom to make plans and enjoy making memories as you want, see fit, dream of?

Excellent question, and no, I did not!! There have been very few holidays in my adult life where we did not get sucked into family crap, and we've always lived 10-12 hours away. I recall my parents having a total meltdown the first year out of college that my husband and I were working full time and we each only had like a week or two of vacation time saved up. There was no way we were squandering that on a visit to their rustbelt town, especially when we lived in a popular seaside tourist destination with beautiful weather and scenery. They just could not fathom us not going up there. Last TG, I had been having heart issues and uninvited them to TG. We spent it with close friends who also have an nMom, and we all relished in the peace of it all! WE CAN'T WAIT to do that again!!! I'd wanted to take a weeklong trip during TG this year, but when I proposed it to the kids, they were both very unenthusiastic and expressed a deep longing for a PEACEFUL break at home. Which I can totally understand. But at the same time, I'd like a new pattern.

Cordelia, your Christmas trip sounds like a dream! I might try to get my kids on board with that instead of a ton of Christmas gifts. Without getting too political, this is a great year to not support capitalism, and the gift of a vacation somewhere sounds really nice.

I got a chance to talk to my therapist about the family therapy session--I recorded it and sent it to her!! My therapist said "I'm outraged on your behalf! This "therapist" breached ethical standards numerous times and mine wants to report her!

[Rebel13]

I got a chance to talk to my therapist about the family therapy session--I recorded it and sent it to her!! My therapist said "I'm outraged on your behalf! This "therapist" breached ethical standards numerous times and mine wants to report her!

Wow, I hope that gives your outrage and frustration some validation!