Back to square one but at least now I know the game and rules….

[Lillith65]

I'd been no contact with my uPD mother and uPD younger sister since March 2018.
Then a few weeks ago my mother rang out of the blue ill and crying. I answered the phone and agreed to drop her some things that she needed.

Long story short she's now in hospital and apparently very ill. My sister contacted me via social media to let me know. I replied that I was away on holiday (which I was). She then rang my son and lied to him that they couldn't get in touch with me. Of course I told him what had actually happened.

Went to visit my mother and my sister was there. She ignored me with a face like thunder. My mother was intermittently crying and clearly unwell. Unable to walk, catheterised, weak. She has bowel cancer along with other health problems, but was assessed as 'fit for discharge into a nursing home.' That's where she is now. It's in a different city, about 17 miles from my sister.

I'm coming under pressure from my sister to get involved. She chose not to learn to drive. My mother chose to live about 12 miles away from her, but close to me. When it became clear what the plan was - I was in line to be general transport, carer and support for them both I told them that I was not going to be involved beyond visiting. This precipitated no contact after they both exploded and hurled abuse at me - including in public on social media. After a lifetime of abuse and manipulation from them both I was done.

My sister is already telling lies - claiming she has a full time job and struggling - she hasn't, she chooses her hours and her partner is very well paid and pays all the bills. This pops out in conversation as neither my mother nor my sister can keep their stories straight.

Anyway, I have chosen to see my mother regularly (once a week) while she's in nursing care, and my sister seems to have assumed that we are now jointly responsible for her. We're not. I will visit my mother (she's approaching end of life according to the discharge co-ordinator), but I want little to nothing to do with my sister. She, my sister seems to think that we're back to where we were, with me supporting her and my mother while they bitch and gossip (behind my back) about me and my family and ignore any needs that I have - including basic respect and consideration.

My route forward is to ignore contact from my sister for several days, then reply in a brief, factual way. However, the anxiety is affecting me and I feel as if I'm being sucked back in at square one again!

Any advice or just solidarity would be welcome.

[walking on broken glass]

Hi Lillith65,

Your story hit close to home. My situation is very similar: I have an uBPD sister who has always targeted me, while bonding with my uPD mum. After the recent death of my dad, they have become fully enmeshed and have scapegoated me and my partner. I have gone no contact with them both, but I always worry about the future, given that my mum has several health problems. I can definitely envisage a scenario where I am expected to look after my mum and put up with my sister's shenanigans. I know the dread and the anxiety: I am sending virtual hugs and solidarity.

For me, I have found that once I have decided on a plan of action, I feel much more in peace and less prone to panic. You seem to have done that: you have decided you want to be in touch with your mum during her last days, and that you will ignore your sister. I wonder if the knowledge that you are very secure in your decisions and what you need to do can give you some solace and confidence. I like reminding myself that what they want and expect from me doesn't matter because they have no way of imposing anything on me anymore. I am my own person and they cannot touch me. I can also positively reassure you that even though it feels like that, you are not back at square one, because you are fully aware of the pitfalls and you have consciously made your decisions – not under the pressure of FOG. These are challenging circumstances and it is absolutely normal to have anxiety and fear but give yourself credit for the progress you have made, and trust yourself that you are in control. You can also re-adjust your decisions, if thins shift in an uncomfortable way. Nothing is set in stone. Sometimes it is the meta-fear (fear about the fear that we have experienced in the past) that holds us captive, and once we realize how much we have grown, it dissipates. Keep writing to us here and hang in there!

[NarcKiddo]

I'm glad you have a plan. Now the objective has to be to stick to that plan even though you feel you are being sucked in. Clearly your sister is trying to suck you back in, and that will be provoking your memories and anxiety. My approach to that, when feeling anxiety, would be to try to notice it and remind myself that the feeling of anxiety relates to a historic bad situation. Just because you are scared of being sucked back in does not mean that you are actually being sucked back in. You have a plan and you are sticking to it. And as WOBG has pointed out, you are in control of that plan. If it needs adjustment along the way you are perfectly within your rights to adjust it.

[Liketheducks]

I feel this.   VLC with my mom.   The only time I hear from her is when something is wrong.  When I don't step fully back into the role that she has determined is my place, the disappointment in her is palpable.  She no longer rages with me, but plays the "poor me" card.   I meet her stonewalling with distance now.   She does still trash me to anyone else who will listen....though she has to go further afield in our family for that now.   

But the feelings associated with the FOG get really difficult when these things happen.   Whenever I hear from my mom it produces "I'm not doing it right" within me something fierce.  (I know that is a voice that she instilled within me).   Keeping up with your plan is wonderful.   Take the time to self care and process those feelings will help you.   I find that I can stick to plan, but then I have a few days of emotional hangover to process.   This is really, really difficult stuff.   Treat yourself as you would a dear friend going through a very difficult time. 

[Lillith65]

Thank you all so much. It is so helpful to hear each of your experiences and to know that I am not alone, even though it is awful that these kinds of families exist.

You are absolutely right that no one can make me do anything. My family, including my now dead uNPD father, used to use emotional manipulation, triangulation and if that didn't work then raging and shaming to get me to do what they wanted.

Fortunately over the decades I have read a lot, had therapy and used this website (all my old posts have disappeared though) and so I know the playbook, more or less.

I think that the renewed contact has triggered a lot of old feelings including sadness that I can't have a normal relationship with my mother or sister. They both behave in ways that are consistent with some sort of PD and in family dynamic terms I am the scapegoat and scivvy.

Fortunately I discovered during my last two visits to my mother that she can cry and complain and I can listen, make appropriate noises but remain noncommittal about doing something about 'it.' It's like sitting with a crying stranger/child who can't have what she wants. Something that my mother could never do with either me or my sister. She either shouted, threatened or mainly ignored us no matter what the cause. Ironic that she now demands what she could never give either of us.

And my sister. It is so sad. For a long time I thought she was my best friend. Then I was told by her what she and my mother talked about when they talked about me: the way I dressed, the shoes I wore, my interests, how horrible my boyfriends and eventually my (lovely, blameless) husband were, how I was 'weird' and 'neurotic.' Then I saw a post my sister made on social media about me following a period when I was hospitalised for suicidal thoughts and depression, that I was 'a right misery,' 'all she does is moan and eat my biscuits' and that she 'couldn't wait for me to leave' every time I visited. Ironically she had worked as a psychiatric nurse (no longer working thank heavens). After a serious attempt on my own life she told me that I was 'selfish' and needed 'to grow up.'

That broke me, but I still tried to keep the relationship going. I look back now and think how ridiculous it was to try and salvage anything. But I've learned and even though there is still a piece of me that longs for that loving sister relationship I know that it is not possible.

Neither my mum, nor my sister have anything to give. They are both prisoners of their past and their own choices and their psychology. They have no insight and no willingness to do anything differently. It was down to me to change, and I did. I changed into someone who could survive without them and can now see my mother as she approaches the end of her life without feeling that it's my job to fix it or that it's my fault they are like that.

[doglady]

I'm in complete solidarity with you Lillith65. And in a very similar situation.

When we get hauled back into the dysfunction, it can be very stressful and anxiety producing after the relative peace of being NC. So it can feel like you're back to square one.

But you've obviously worked hard in therapy and learned a lot over the years. And what stands out from your posts is that you are strong, articulate, rational and resolute. You are not back at square one. You clearly do know the rules of the 'game.' And what a game it is. You are now able to sit back and watch the game play out and not participate on your mother's and sister's team. You have your own rules of engagement.

The behaviour of your mother and sister is unconscionable. They will probably continue to drain your cup. I hope that you have good support during this difficult time.

[Lillith65]

Thank you so much Dog Lady.

I was so tempted to post on your thread about how similar our situations are, but felt that I would be hijacking your thread rather than providing a sounding board, solidarity or advice - if you'd wanted it.

And yes, like you, I have worked hard and it is almost amusing when they make the same old moves and I know exactly what is going on 

When I saw my mother yesterday, quite soon after I arrived she started telling me that my sister had had 'a terrible, dangerous trip' to visit her because she had to get the bus and it meant crossing some big, difficult roads and how worried she (my mother) was about her (my sister). I listened and then replied, 'that sounds stressful for both of you, maybe she could get an uber from the bus station instead?' and then changed the subject. By the way, my sister is 57! Although she likes to pretend to be much younger, including using a 'baby voice' at times 🙄

Next my mum was complaining about other people standing in her doorway looking at her. They have some residents with dementia who occasionally wander at night apparently. My mum's room has a door and she has a call bell. I suggested that she could close the door. Of course not, she gets 'claustrophobic.' The room she is in is actually larger than the rooms she's used to at home! I quickly changed the subject again.

This morning I let my sister know the day that I'm visiting next week so that she can make her own plans. She immediately replied, telling me that she has to have some medical investigations this week, and how 'they always' make her 'so sick' and that they take 6 hours to complete. Remember that she doesn't drive - her choice - and that in the past (before NC) I was the designated taxi for whatever she wanted. This was normally via emotional manipulation from either her or my parents. She can afford taxis and has lived the last 8 years without my help. I know exactly what they (my mother and sister) expect. I also know that I will not be manipulated like that again. So my reply to that text from my sister was just 'crikey, that sounds arduous.'

The other funny thing was that I knew that my mother would complain about everything and everyone, but wasn't expecting her to say how wonderful the food in the hospital was (she complained all the time about it when she was in there) in the context of how awful the food is in the nursing home. I saw it, it looked delicious.

Cue another text from my sister about how 'basic' the nursing home is. It's not shag pile carpets and chandeliers, but it's actually lovely! My mother has her own room, en-suite, electrically operated bed, nice modern furniture, a large window looking onto trees and bushes with loads of birds and squirrels, and the staff seem lovely too. I replied to that 'in my experience it doesn't seem basic at all.' I have visited and worked in several care homes over the years and this one has a really nice feel to it.

They keep trying to bait me. And I just medium chill their moves.

I will see my mother regularly. It is clear that she is approaching end of life. I'd describe it as she is dying, but it's probably going to take weeks or months. On the other hand she could die in her sleep or at any point. Either way she's late 80s and has lived how she wanted for most of it. I do feel sad, she is my mother and it hurts to see any person diminishing and shutting down as she is, but it's not going to break my heart, and at least this way I won't have the burden of guilt that was always a possibility being NC.

But also, I so hope not to have the battle that others have had/are going through, with elderly parents insisting on going home...

[walking on broken glass]

When I saw my mother yesterday, quite soon after I arrived she started telling me that my sister had had 'a terrible, dangerous trip' to visit her because she had to get the bus and it meant crossing some big, difficult roads and how worried she (my mother) was about her (my sister). I listened and then replied, 'that sounds stressful for both of you, maybe she could get an uber from the bus station instead?' and then changed the subject. By the way, my sister is 57! Although she likes to pretend to be much younger, including using a 'baby voice' at times 🙄

This is so similar to the dynamic between my mum and my sister! I love the way you responded!

Also, really well done on not letting them bait you. It can't be easy but you are doing it so gracefully. I like visualizing this as them sending balls in my court and me hitting them back to them in all sorts of ways (volley, drop shot, ace). Or sometimes letting the serve go out

[Lillith65]

Thank you WOBG. I am sorry that you also have the sibling/carer dynamic. It is exhausting and infuriating. These people are  adults 🙄 Love your tennis analogy too. I'm a big tennis fan!

It's taken years, as well as 8 years NC to be able to deal with them the way that I am at the moment 

I am acutely aware of the game that is being played, and still second guess myself by wondering if it really is the game I think. But I am able to remind myself of the decades of experience I have had, and everything that I have learned about dysfunctional families and personality disorders.

I'm now wondering when or if they will ever give up 

The latest text from my sister includes the fact that it took 2 and a half hours to get home from visiting our mother. Fact: she could have learned to drive and got herself a car at any point in the last 40 years. Fact: she could afford an uber for at least part of the journey. Fact: I told them both 8 years ago that if my mother chose to live where she does - which dictates the location of the care home too - it would cause difficulties and I was not going to be the taxi for either of them.

My sister also told me that our mother 'did nothing but cry' when she saw her and it was difficult to leave as a result. I replied that it was natural for her to be tearful given how quickly life has changed but that she's in the best place for her. I also completely ignored my sister's difficulties with travel. She's an adult. She's made choices - including how she has treated me over the years.

Consequences. Consequences.

Of course the crying may lead to my mother 'insisting' on going home. That is the point at which I plan to say to both of them: 'That is not a good idea. You/she is in the best place.' If it continues then I will ask a series of questions before stating my position:
How will you get there? I'm not driving you there.
Who is going to look after you? I'm not looking after you, I may or may not visit once a week but that will be all.
Finally, it is your choice, but there also consequences and you will have to live with them.

[walking on broken glass]

The constancy victim mentality, especially when it is expected that you will do the saving, drives me nuts!

I think your series of questions are very fair and reasonable. Good for you for opting not to play their game.

[Lillith65]

Professional victims.

Everything is someone else's fault and someone needs to something.

Until I went through therapy that someone was me! Not anymore.

Responding as an objective, independent adult confuses them I think!

[Lillith65]

Many years ago there was an awesome member of this website called Woman Interrupted. RIP WI. She was terrific! I copied and saved one of her posts that I returned to often, and am now rereading. For anyone else who needs it:

WOMAN INTERRUPTED's ADVICE: (I've anonymised the names)
I remember the horror of this reality all too well!  UnBPD XXX was of the same mindset:

1.  Somebody needs to DO something!   

2.  Nobody is doing anything!   

3.  Somebody needs to do something, but nobody is doing anything and I NEED HELP!   

I was both "somebody" and "nobody" - just like you.

There's always a mythical "something" that needs to be done to fill the black hole inside her.  If you figure out what the "something" is, you might be able to partially fill that hole for a few minutes, until she finds fault with the "something" - and sends you on another Quest for the Mythical Something, urging you on by baiting you with, "Nobody ever does anything for me!"

Here's the thing with your mom - just like XXX, you could hand her a bag with a million dollars in it and say, "Here you go - this is for you!  Free and clear!"

Now...a million bucks would solve a LOT of her problems - but instead of thanking you, she'll sigh, "I was going to do my gardening today and now I have to put that on hold, get ready and WASTE ALL DAY at the bank - if I can even get there, because of all the road work!  Oh, it's SO heavy!  I don't know if I can carry it ALL THAT WAY from the parking lot - you know my knees are shot and I'm not as young as I used to be....oh, WHY did you have to do this to me?  You know the cats NEED me and I can't take time away from them!  You never think of anybody but yourself!  Oh, this bag is SO, SO heavy...somebody needs to DO something about it, but  nobody ever thinks of me!"   

Her life is nothing but manufactured crisis after crisis, where somebody needs to do something, but nobody is doing anything and nobody ever thinks about her, even though *you've just solved a boatload of her problems.*  There are always MORE problems, and the Quest for the Mythical Something never ends, unless we put an end to it with *boundaries.*   

If your mom really wanted to donate that suit, she could call the radio station herself, ask for their advertising department and get the name of the organization she heard about - but she won't do that, because it would *actually solve a problem* - instead, she wants to fob it off on you so she can *complain you did it wrong, you never do anything for her* - and come up with a whole new Litany of Complaints to bang on about.

Yesterday, it was the suit - tomorrow, it will be something else. 

Here is another that I saved, but have anonymised the poster too - from @10 years ago.

A.N.OTHER:
"The problem is she doesn't want help. She wants relief from the emotional monster inside, and the word "help" is the only verbiage she has to describe it. She manufactures drama after drama, chaos after chaos to keep you tied to her because your attention somehow appeases the monster temporarily.

These kinds of PD moms are like the Pit of Sarlaac from Return of the Jedi. A huge gaping maw lined with teeth, with tentacles constantly clutching and attempting to pull you into the abyss, where you will be digested slowly over a lifetime. It still won't be enough, and once they've consumed you they'll simply find their next victim."

"One of the things I continually remind myself of is that in non PD world adult offspring are off living their life, not care-taking, not worrying about feeling responsible for their parents mental and emotional well-being. It's quite normal and non PD world for adult Offspring to go off and live their life without a care or worry in old age of their parents because the parents recognized it is their responsibility to ensure their care whatever that means.

Also in non PD world if an adult Offspring wishes two get involved in their parents Medical Care in their parents old age then there is discussion between all adults involved as to what will be done and what will not be done, what is acceptable and what is not acceptable, what the adult Offspring can and cannot do period

This is my observation having peers that are involved or not involved in their parents care in old age. Some are and some are not, but the non PD parents don't have any particular expectation or demands of their adult offspring.

I have decided until such time as my parents approached me to discuss what they wish their arrangements to be for old age care then I am just staying out of the loop and living my life, pretending I live in non PD world."

[walking on broken glass]

Thank you for sharing those They ring true for both my mum and my sister.

[Lillith65]

I'm glad that they are helpful. I go back to them when I need them.

Irony of ironies, my sister (uPD) is now texting me about how sad she is about my mother and how hard it is seeing her so ill. Clearly thinks that I should be supporting her (my sister) through it.

This is my sister who has nothing to give (uPD) and who has relied on my parents and her own emotional manipulation of me to get what she wants. The sister who gossiped, criticised and abused me to my face.

Sticking to my brief, factual replies, but have noticed that I've started to slip into answering quickly. Got to get back onto that wagon of delaying my replies so that she doesn't think I'm on a string. It is such a slippery slope. I sometimes forget and start to think that she is a normal person who might be a loving sister.....

[walking on broken glass]

Our sisters are so similar! It's uncanny! Everything you mentioned sounds so familiar to me. When my mum passes away, she will need to find someone else to offload, complain endlessly and feed off of in general. It won't be me!

I also tried the replying with delay method before eventually blocking my sister. She's just unbearable, an energy vampire and malicious too.

[Lillith65]

It's reassuring isn't it to know that this is a pattern and there are others dealing with it?

Strange thing is my sister is intelligent, had the same 'opportunities' as me, is reasonably attractive and could have had the world! Her responses to our toxic family were different though, she was also the youngest of the two of us and was designated golden child/needing care. She definitely has some sort of PD though.

And absolutely regarding the refusal to step into the enmeshment! Goes for me too!

Glad we connected!

[Lillith65]

I'm going to drop this here so that I can refer to it and remind myself about

Detaching with love

"Detaching with love is not a way of treating someone one else, judging them, controlling their actions, or implying approval or disapproval. If the world were a store and someone came up to you looking for the auto parts section, detaching would be like saying, 'I'm sorry, but I'm not the salesclerk. I don't know where the auto parts are; perhaps you can find a salesclerk at the customer service counter.' It's not saying, 'Let me find out for you,' and it's not snapping, 'Do you see me wearing a uniform? No? Then leave me alone!' "

It's from an article in the resources section made by Bloomie.

https://www.agingcare.com/articles/setting-boundaries-with-parents-who-are-abusive-142804.htm

[Lillith65]

Well....that didn't take long.

My mother was much brighter today and is actually walking with a zimmer frame. We were having a pleasant visit, she was pleased with the large print books and the photos of her parents that I printed out for her.

Then she started telling me about two incidents from my son's childhood that I didn't know about. They both occurred when he was staying with them - prior to me realising what was going on, so 30 years ago. Essentially they put my son into two very dangerous situations, both a result of their neglect. Fortunately nothing happened to him, but I felt palpable malice from her when she was smiling about it and saying 'I never told you about that did I?'

I was actually caught off guard. The stuff about my sister I'm prepared for, the questions about my past abuser I'm prepared for, but regarding my son...wow. Many hours later I am just starting to process it. Very painful.

She also made a comment about my dress, saying how she liked it. I happen to know that she doesn't like that style at all - long, loose, plain - a style that she and my sister have enjoyed criticising in the past as 'frumpy', especially combined with my Doc Martin boots. I remember her saying about a particular dress in the past, how she liked it, only for my sister to gleefully tell me that while my back was turned my mother whispered 'What the hell is she wearing? She looks like a nun.' Exactly the kind of thing I had heard her say about others, so I doubt that my sister was making it up.

Trivial I know, but such a mean girl thing to do.

The desire to hurt is clearly still there and today was a valuable reminder - she's not just a frail old lady coming to the end of her life. She is still manipulative and she still enjoys hurting me.

Lesson learned.

[walking on broken glass]

I am sorry Lilith. Just when you think you are prepared for anything, they come up with something new that you hadn't thought about. I hope you did something nice for yourself after the visit and that you spoke to some nice, sane people.

[Lillith65]

Oh Lord. I am still surprised by how negative, critical and gossipy my mother is. Saw her today and the whole time she was trash talking everyone apart from my sister.Such poisonous stuff too. Implying that my cousin was sexually involved with his step daughter and that was why his marriage broke down. I asked her why she was suggesting that and she gave some vague answer. So I shut it down.

Next she started on another cousin whose daughter and toddler grandson died in a suicide/murder and said that he (my cousin) should have dealt with her ex boyfriend as he was abusive. I pointed out that no one did anything about my abusive ex husband (the man she still talks about fondly). That stopped her for a few moments before she started rambling about how wealthy he (my cousin) was and listing all the inheritances that he had had.

What is it about certain personalities that they are obsessed with how much money others have? Still can't believe that rather than asking how my adult son is (her grandson) and about her great grandchild, she wanted to know what car he drove and how many en-suites they have!

My sister continues to make herself a victim. She's now invited a friend of her son's to stay with them as his family made him move out. The reason? He has a serious drug and alcohol problem. The consequences are as predictable as anyone would predict. Fortunately, I'm not involved and just listen to the tale of woe as if it is something on the radio i.e. nothing to do with me.

My mother also let slip that she and my sister have snooped on the internet to look at the house that I live in as well as my son's house! Talking about the floor plans of our homes and finding photos from when they were sold! Just no boundaries at all!

Next we had the complaints about the care she receives: they don't answer her bell, they never do what she asks, there's no one to talk to and nothing to do. I know how good the care is, I can see it in her condition, her room, the way the other residents are, the number of staff and the way that they behave. There is an activity timetable that actually takes place and my mother told me that she'd played bingo yesterday and won. The nursing home has an open door policy too, so they have nothing to hide.

Honestly I think that nothing and nowhere is good enough. I think she gets a kick out of complaining and bitching. At least being (more or less) Out of the FOG, I don't feel as if I have to pay attention or try and fix things. But heavens, today I was tired.  The first time since I chose to break NC I actually thought that I wished I was still NC.

I am also concerned because she keeps talking about going home.I know that I need to stick to my plan that I outlined earlier.

I plan to say to both of them: 'That is not a good idea. You/she is in the best place.' If it continues then I will ask a series of questions before stating my position:
How will you get there? I'm not driving you there.
Who is going to look after you? I'm not looking after you, I may or may not visit once a week but that will be all.
Finally, it is your choice, but there also consequences and you will have to live with them.