Hello… family NPD and deeply missing my mom in my first pregnancy

[KeepingtheFaith]

Sorry this is so long. I had struggled with my relationship with my dad my whole life.  There were a few very traumatic incidents where he ignored or crushed my needs and emotions and I felt like I was going to die. I became a shadow of a person attempting to avoid his countless criticisms and put downs, all while he was denying his actions and making statements and actions that isolated our family.  We weren't allowed to yell or be angry at home, but he could if he wanted to and that made it feel like I had really done something to deserve it when he did. I developed severe anxiety with cPTSD symptoms starting as a pre-teen and worsening into early adulthood.  Ironically he is a therapist and insisted on counseling me (where he would just talk in circles and convince me that nothing could be his fault, that I was being selfish and needed to change, which I tried so many times with no results).  Almost 4 years ago I went through a break up where my ex was treating me in similar ways and my mind and body couldn't take it anymore.  I went into hyper fight or flight mode, I slept 2-4 hours max a night for 8 months, and I was crying uncontrollably whenever I wasn't at work (it's a miracle I was able to keep working, honestly). After a few weeks of kind of trying to support me, my parents began telling me basically that I was doing this to myself and upsetting the family and I just had to stop. I finally started seeing another therapist, who after about 6 months suggested that my dad might be narcissistic as he was not responding to the situation and requests for dialogue as expected, and I was shocked by how much the diagnostic criteria fit the bill. He is more covert with elements of self-righteous and religious and possibly even paranoid personality disorder. As I was going through this period I was trying to set boundaries but also have dialogue especially with my dad, instead he would evade the problem and become the victim, while in reality he was doing everything he was accusing me of (talking to extended family behind my back, not responding to my attempts at dialogue for months but saying I was delaying, accusing me of being manipulative and faking being nice when we were together). He spun a situation so he could self-righteously accuse me of sinning and and I guess try to get me running back to him, turning all of but one of my siblings against me and refusing to meet the man I had begun dating, who is now my husband (not surprising that my family refused to attend the wedding and he tried to convince all of my extended family not to go as well).

My mom is definitely a victim of my dad too; I don't think she's really been able to have her own opinion on anything since they started dating in college and she worked a very demanding more than full time job and did most of the housework (including homeschooling me and several siblings) when I was growing up. My dad refused to work for anyone, only in private practice which didn't work out for him for a long time, so he was nominally a stay at home dad, but spent a lot of time daydreaming and basically making plans (and spending a lot of money) on becoming a commune leader (which to my knowledge he is still working on).  So my mom had no physical or emotional energy to be there for us, and I think she also learned to repress her opinions and emotions to stay out of conflict with my dad.  I can also see times where he undermined my relationship with her growing up – stopping our baking nights, not letting us attend musicals and sometimes lunches together when I was older (insisting that I was "splitting up the family" and he at least should come along), convincing her that it was wrong to occasionally buy me small things and non expensive clothes (that I never asked for, but felt loved when I received from her) as I became more independent.  But my mom and I are very similar people, similar personalities, could basically read each other's minds if we were on the same team for a board game, etc.  There were a few times I when I had a conflict with my dad growing up that she would comfort me and try to be a bridge to reconciliation, and even share a little that she was frustrated with some of my dad's shortcomings (neither of us realizing how abusive these "shortcomings" really were at the time).  So I thought that she understood me and that she would be there for me especially if things got worse with my dad – I never wanted to make her "choose sides" but I guess I expected the love, support, and connection of a normal mother-daughter relationship.

I was devastated, then, when she chose to believe my dad when he said I was just lying and looking for attention by dragging him through the dirt when I was going through this crisis and joined with him in cutting off contact with me in spring 2024.  I was not trying to accuse him or gain restitution for everything he had done to hurt me, but I was setting boundaries and not letting myself be treated in certain ways, and he and my mom kept insisting that I tell them that my "healing" had led me to see that nothing was their fault, which was not true – the process has helped me acknowledge that many things were seriously wrong but to forgive and love them with boundaries anyway. I was honestly strongly considering cutting off contact at the time because it didn't feel safe to interact with them, but they decided to first.  I have heard that after this my mom went through something similar to me with crying and not sleeping for months, but through my dad's influence she believes it's my fault. I doubt she got any real help and I have no idea how she actually is doing at this moment.  I really wish she would wake up and leave my dad for her own sake but I know that it's unlikely with how enmeshed she is and at this point financially dependent on him as their roles have reversed as well.

So I feel like I understand all these elements to her situation and our lack of relationship and why she made the decisions that she did, but my heart is having a hard time with it lately.  I didn't miss her much when I was planning my wedding or starting our home, probably because we didn't usually bond over those type of things anyway.  But now I'm pregnant (due in just a few weeks) and over the last several months there have been times when I have felt an immense, acute pain of abandonment by her, times when I want to ask her about her delivery experiences, get advice, help with making practical decisions on baby gear, wanting to watch her be a grandma to our child and future children, wanting her to be able to help a reasonable amount with some meals and childcare. I feel like I've come to terms with the fact that my dad has a personality disorder and is who I always thought he was despite his attempts to convince me otherwise, and I'm no longer looking for his approval or presence in my life. But I know that my mom not narcissistic, and I just want a normal relationship with her and the wisdom and security of having my mom as I begin my motherhood journey.  But I also don't want to replace her with anyone, and I think I am hesitant to really reach out to other women because I still don't want to seem like a burden, and the thought of being close to other mothers sometimes hurts a lot too. My MIL has offered to be there, but we are very different people and she has her own stuff to deal with; she can be frustrating and difficult and I've had to set some boundaries with her as well. I have been working through these things in therapy, but my therapist and I came across this forum a few weeks ago and she encouraged me to post for support as well.

I have come so far in the last 3.5 years since starting therapy and being welcomed into my husband's family – no more crippling anxiety, much less fatigue (which I think was a mix of chronic stress and subconsciously self-imposed to try to limit further harm), much more open to other people and relationships (though still more guarded than I would like). Sleeping through the night is still not a given and I still have some emotional triggers, but I have recently successfully weaned off of the anti-depressant I started about 3 years ago.  I am more and more of "myself" as time passes and I have processed many emotions and deep wounds and am so much more whole. My husband and I have an amazing relationship where we are just so open to and feel so safe with each other. There is none of the oppression or isolation of living under my father's shadow and my husband is much more involved in housework and I have no doubt that he will be a very involved father. His family is also very supportive and I am more or less close to his various family members, especially his grandfather which is has been a real blessing. I know that being cut off by my own family has made my healing process more possible in some respects. My dad also cut off my grandparents (his own parents) because they wouldn't join him in giving me the silent treatment and insisted that I still be invited to family events at their home, so I am growing in relationship with them and some other extended family members, some of whom understand the situation and some who are trying "to remain neutral and hope we work things out".

But today at church the verse "even if a mother should forsake her child, even I would not abandon you" came up and I am feeling this pain about my mom again.  I know that the pain of abandonment by the non-narcissistic parent is something survivors often have to work through, often later in their healing journey. Does anyone have any similar experiences or advice, especially with navigating pregnancy and motherhood while feeling abandoned by their own mother?

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hi KeepingtheFaith. Yes, I do have many similar experiences as you. As I was reading I wondered if you could be my sister! Not really, but your story and lifelong difficulties with your father and how your enmeshed mother sacrificed her relationship with you to keep him appeased... yes, yes, yes. I have been there. I'm NC with my parents too, and as a mother now myself I have felt much of these griefs. As you become a mother it is so so normal to need to be mothered yourself, to be gently led into this new role surrounded by the good examples you have received. As it is, I often feel I am trying to fill my children from an empty cup. I have more to add but I will have to come back later. Congratulations, and I look forward to supporting you. Thank you for sharing here.

[bloomie]

KeepingtheFaith - welcome to Out of the FOG. Thank you for sharing context to the difficulties and painful family of origin experiences that bring you here. My heart hurts just imagining the atmosphere that surrounded you as you grew into adulthood. I can relate so very closely to much of what you describe feeling at this very important time in your life and the life of your family of choice.

You mention The Bible, and so I will take a risk and share that I have observed so often in my readings of the scriptures that there is often an experience of joy and sorrow that walk side by side in our lives having come from dysfunction and, in my case, a narcissistic family system. A system where everything and everyone centered on the survival and elevation of the parents. Anything and anyone who could be seen as any kind of a threat to the carefully crafted facade was either to get in line or face being denounced and maligned. It is a terrible way to live and I am so very sorry you have experienced similar things.

So, you have the incredible joy of welcoming your dear little one into the world very soon with a man who sounds as if he is loving, engaged and trustworthy. And alongside of this is the reality that your mother will not be a part of your and your child's life. That is a lot to work through.

In some ways, becoming a mother myself brought fresh waves of grief and an almost disbelief that my own mother could behave as she had. The love you feel already and the protection I imagine you are already showing toward you little one, the way you are preparing and anticipating their arrival raises questions of 'why' and 'how could she..'. At least it did for me and I encountered that to some degree with each developmental stage with my own kiddos.

But... it got less and less in time. As I healed. As I grieved what I never had and began to create a support system for myself and my kids. A wise older woman, a group of loving other mommas that I could brainstorm with or who were there to support each other, other family members who truly cared, a savvy therapist, and so much more.

You are taking brave and important steps to move through the reality you are faced with in your relationship with your mother and other family members. I see your intro post sat a bit unresponded to, I want to apologize for that, and at the same time encourage you to keep coming back and sharing as you are able.

"There are doors I've closed that still ache a little when I walk past them." Rachel Green Taylor

The doors between you and your mother are painful, I know. Yet, you are building a life of such beauty and value for yourself, your child, your husband and for The One who matters most and I hope with all my heart resting in the second half of that passage: "I would not abandon you" will bring comfort!

[Call Me Cordelia]

Coming back at last, it's been busy here. :-) You've been in my thoughts.

"I just want a normal relationship with her and the wisdom and security of having my mom as I begin my motherhood journey.  But I also don't want to replace her with anyone, and I think I am hesitant to really reach out to other women because I still don't want to seem like a burden, and the thought of being close to other mothers sometimes hurts a lot too."

This really reasonates with my experience. I had four children when I went NC with my mother and father, but they were never anything like a reliable source of support for me with my babies. I had the message of, "Well, you made your bed now lie in it!" I chose to have children, they were my burden. They would show up for photo ops to put on their social media when they felt like it, but otherwise, forgot we exist.

I tended to assume that other people would feel similarly to my parents if I asked for help, and feeling close to other mothers was something I craved and yet feared with just about equal intensity. I've had three more babies after NC, and of necessity sought out support from our community. It was scary at first, but think about how you would treat a mother in your own community who is in your situation. Would you resent her needing support? Would you treat her with kindness? Would you think maybe she could be a friend? It really did help me to choose to give people a chance to be decent human beings. Usually I was rewarded by getting to interact with decent human beings despite my fears! You have the opportunity to build relationships of reciprocity, gradually, over time. Maybe this time you don't have a ton of support lined up, but you have some from your in-laws? A wise priest I know likes to say, "Every personal weakness is an opportunity for communion." If people are willing to help you, let them! You aren't replacing your mother, you are building a healthy support network. Even people with great moms do this. I also firmly believe that relational trauma is healed in relationships. You've been through a very hard thing and the grief is going to come back periodically, and that postpartum time is likely to be one of those times, for sure. But with all of the grief and loss and cutting away, I do believe you'll find you now have room in your life for joy. Congratulations on building a beautiful new family!

[KeepingtheFaith]

Coming back at last, it's been busy here. :-) You've been in my thoughts.

"I just want a normal relationship with her and the wisdom and security of having my mom as I begin my motherhood journey.  But I also don't want to replace her with anyone, and I think I am hesitant to really reach out to other women because I still don't want to seem like a burden, and the thought of being close to other mothers sometimes hurts a lot too."

This really reasonates with my experience. I had four children when I went NC with my mother and father, but they were never anything like a reliable source of support for me with my babies. I had the message of, "Well, you made your bed now lie in it!" I chose to have children, they were my burden. They would show up for photo ops to put on their social media when they felt like it, but otherwise, forgot we exist.

I tended to assume that other people would feel similarly to my parents if I asked for help, and feeling close to other mothers was something I craved and yet feared with just about equal intensity. I've had three more babies after NC, and of necessity sought out support from our community. It was scary at first, but think about how you would treat a mother in your own community who is in your situation. Would you resent her needing support? Would you treat her with kindness? Would you think maybe she could be a friend? It really did help me to choose to give people a chance to be decent human beings. Usually I was rewarded by getting to interact with decent human beings despite my fears! You have the opportunity to build relationships of reciprocity, gradually, over time. Maybe this time you don't have a ton of support lined up, but you have some from your in-laws? A wise priest I know likes to say, "Every personal weakness is an opportunity for communion." If people are willing to help you, let them! You aren't replacing your mother, you are building a healthy support network. Even people with great moms do this. I also firmly believe that relational trauma is healed in relationships. You've been through a very hard thing and the grief is going to come back periodically, and that postpartum time is likely to be one of those times, for sure. But with all of the grief and loss and cutting away, I do believe you'll find you now have room in your life for joy. Congratulations on building a beautiful new family!

Thank you so much!  I know to some extent that any help or relationship from my parents or other siblings who have cut me out would be hollow and probably hurtful if they were present in some way but still the way that they are, but I find myself hoping and wishing that everything was different and we really were the family my parents tried to pretend we were; we could have such happy and great connections, our child would have several doting aunts and uncles that live nearby, we could love and support all of them and bring such joy, and we could manage even eventual conflicts like rational human beings... but I know that while acknowledging that desire is important, it isn't that way now.  We will probably eventually move away from the same area where most of them live for a few different reasons which I think may be helpful for me (but obviously not fix everything) but isn't in the cards yet.  I've also wondered and felt angry off and on for years that my mom decided to be with my dad... even understanding now the manipulation she has been under since before I was born, it is still very frustrating and needs more processing I guess. 

Thank you for sharing your fears about connecting with other moms and growing a community as well. It seems these fears are commonplace with this kind of abuse, but my dad also very explicitly worked to make us distrust other people and institutions probably as a mix of grandiosity and paranoia; he has been preparing to live self-sufficiently for years (to "survive the socialist takeover" which freaked me out and made it even harder to trust other people as no one else seemed to be doing the same) and he would give "anti-sermons" where he would criticize everything the priest said on the way home each week, and say things like "we're the only ones that think/say/do _," or "really understand or believe _". Even though I am having more and more experiences that most people are not like this and do not behave the way my family did, I do still fear it and sometimes feel like I am carrying around a huge secret and I will be judged or blamed for my family's dysfunction if the circumstances do come up, but I also have a competing desire to be understood and to open up when appropriate, which has almost always been received well. I also really want to be there for other people who have gone through similar things and I would certainly believe them and want to help, but I struggle to give myself the same grace I suppose.

There is actually a mom mentorship group starting at my church which is great but I am having to force myself to be open, sign up, and attend events (my husband is giving me a gentle push from behind too).  My therapist is a great woman with 3 children and provides a lot of guidance and encouragement, and an older neighbor has recently offered help and support (and I did let her know that my mom is not involved). Both my and my husband's grandparents are especially supportive and live nearby, but are also in their 80s so a little different than new 50/60 something grandparents. I have 2 good sister-in-laws with small children but they are out of town and it's hard to keep consistent contact with them. I do feel that the building blocks for a community are there, but's just all new territory and I worry I'll be deficient without my mom there; I've been used to trying to make single and now young couple friends for the last few years (some anxiety there too), but I am more intimidated to find "mom friends" and do feel like I am at the bottom of the totem pole again, needing all the help. So I still need to work on asking for and receiving it. I'm anticipating that this post-partum period may be difficult and bring up new things to grieve in some ways, but also further healing and chances to make connections as well as the joy of having our child.  I'm grateful to add this site to my circle too!

[KeepingtheFaith]

KeepingtheFaith - welcome to Out of the FOG. Thank you for sharing context to the difficulties and painful family of origin experiences that bring you here. My heart hurts just imagining the atmosphere that surrounded you as you grew into adulthood. I can relate so very closely to much of what you describe feeling at this very important time in your life and the life of your family of choice.

You mention The Bible, and so I will take a risk and share that I have observed so often in my readings of the scriptures that there is often an experience of joy and sorrow that walk side by side in our lives having come from dysfunction and, in my case, a narcissistic family system. A system where everything and everyone centered on the survival and elevation of the parents. Anything and anyone who could be seen as any kind of a threat to the carefully crafted facade was either to get in line or face being denounced and maligned. It is a terrible way to live and I am so very sorry you have experienced similar things...

Thank you so much!  My healing journey does have a large spiritual component, partially having to relearn/rewire my faith and understanding of God as my family considers themselves super religious and my dad would assume religious authority for power and control - it's harder to argue or see things clearly if he justifies criticism by framing everything as a sin, or that he is utterly sure of God's will, and him saying I was in sin (despite multiple priests who were more familiar with situation assuring me I was not) was enough to have most of my siblings turn on me. It was really shocking to realize most of these things were just his opinion rather than actual truths. But I figured that there had to be meaning beyond my family's understanding and I am very glad that I have been able to stay in church and reframe a lot of these ideas. I do see the hand of God in my life and while I still don't wish these things had happened, I know in some mysterious way I am who I am and have a ton of love and empathy because of the way I was able to respond and start to heal, and there has been so much joy with the pain.  I am much less likely to take the good things for granted now too!  My husband and I constantly express gratitude to each other and to God and it is so heartfelt and amazing.

Thanks for putting into words that this upcoming period of new motherhood will probably have more grief along with the joy... though I don't believe my mother was narcissistic, she would sometimes minimize my pain by saying "you'll never know until you have kids" and so I think there may be some healing for me there as I become a mother, and to experience the joy of the childhood through my kids, and to be able to nurture them as well as I can and have a great partner with to do it with me. And there will certainly be opportunities to make new connections and community, as long as I take them despite the fear. I had some similar fears with getting engaged and married - could I really do this if my parents hadn't modelled a good relationship and hadn't really been there for me?  But the reality of marriage has been so much different and I no longer feel that way.  So in a few years I'll probably look back at this time similarly and have grieved and healed in many more ways and probably have made more close friendships and mentorships, and be able to focus on the last half of that Bible verse rather than the first... it can just be hard to be in the middle of it right now.

[Call Me Cordelia]

KeepingTheFaith, my father was very similar in that we were coached to never trust anyone outside the family, that we were different and superior and I could simply expect to be hated, for my entire life, by everyone. It took a LOT of courage and determination to flip that script and even to this day I deal with fear that I will be ostracized for just being human. It's a lot quieter and I can much more readily overcome it and do the functional, healthy thing that I need to do anyway, but I just want you to hear that you are not alone in these feelings of being cut off from the human race.

The nice thing about "mom friends" is that every single one of us had to begin at the beginning, where you are now. We remember those days where you feel like you may have become a completely different person because you have brought this tiny person into the world who is completely dependent on you, your body feels strange, and you are so tired. Postpartum is a lot, especially for the first time. You are deserving of so much love and support.

[KeepingtheFaith]

Wow, that is very similar.  I've only recently begun to see how much social anxiety I do have related to all of this stuff. And thank you everyone for your encouragement!  I think without my mom I was feeling like I had to do it all alone (funny, I used to consider myself so independent and have no problem doing things alone but now I want people there), but you all are helping me realize that that's not the case.