Personality testing for myself?

[zad7242]

Hello,

My dBPDw very recently acknowledged that we can't keep living this way, which is progress I think. She says she will continue to work with her therapist specifically on not screaming at me and calling me names in front of the kids. Throughout our 5 years of marriage, she has consistently accused me of being a covert narcissist. Part of our deal was of course me doing my best to improve as a husband and father. I have been in therapy for 2 years and my therapist does not believe I am a narcissist, but I know therapists can readily be deceived. In good faith of joining her on a healing journey and in a genuine curiosity about what makes me tick, I am considering doing a personality evaluation to either hopefully put to bed her accusations or admit to myself that I too PD issues I need to work on. Does anyone here have any thoughts on the risks/benefits of doing so? thank you. 

[MaxedOut]

It sounds like she wants a diagnosis to leverage (not necessarily consciously). Being in individual therapy voluntarily for two years pretty much rules out you being a narcissist in my mind. Your consideration of mental health disorder screening out of a sense of mutuality, accommodation, and niggling doubt are also pretty strong signals you are not a narcissist. Obviously we are not diagnosticians or in a position of knowing you enough to am,e any judgement on that, but what you write doesn't track with the concern to me, at all.

Like everything in your post is pretty opposite of how someone with narcissism would think or behave.

What you do right does track with experiences many of us recognize. I think many, if not most of us, have been accused of having a PD by our PD partners. That is pretty typical (projection, deflection, splitting). My ex accused me of being a narcissist and a sociopath (and accused many others of both). Both of those have sounded or would sound silly to my friends, coworkers, family, therapists, and exes.

It may be worth asking your therapist why they don't think you are a narcissist, because you are concerned there may be something to that. They can probably tick off specifics if they use a therapeutic style that includes answering questions like that.

Of note, your agreement has her working on specific identifiable behaviors - which is good. Compare that to exploring if you may have a PD. How does that support you improving as a husband and father? It's pretty unclear.

If your are going down the path of mutual "healing journey" (which may not really be a good faith expectation on her part), it seems much more productive to focus on behaviors not theories of PDs that don't sound likely and your therapist does not believe are at play.

Play the tape forward as well... if you do this screening with your therapist, your wife will probably discount it. If you do it with another mental health professional, maybe she'll discount that to (and it will take a fair amount of time and potentially money).

I don't expect any result other than a diagnosis matching her theory will actually put the topic to bed. It will probably continue or she'll have a new theory about a different disorder. If you do something (reckless) like take online PD screeners, you may end up with some pop-sci flimsy "diagnosis" (or even try ones out until you/she finds something to point at).

The bar for a PD diagnosis is pretty high. Are there specific *patterns* of behavior that are narc traits that you think you have (and not in the usual gradients of non-PD people) *and* are things that have been pointed out as unusual or extreme by non-PD people who are close to you, prior to your wife? I'm not asking you to post those, just asking in a thought process way.

That still would not make for a narcissist without multiple traits, but I hope you get the idea. It is about persistent patterns of behaviors that are maladaptive and enough of them to fit threshold criteria in addition to the sorts of thinking patterns of these disorders.

P.S. - In addition to whatever distorted perceptions may arise, relationships with PDs have a side effect that often adds fuel to the projection accusations. We end up changing our behaviors in relationships with PDs to protect ourselves, to support or soothe our partners, and to maintain a sense of self and things that we value. Those behaviors then may get pointed at as bad traits we have, even indicators of a disorder. If it wasn't a problem in prior relationships or is something you do to prevent something with your partner or as a reaction to abusive behaviors, it's a coping mechanism not a personality trait.

Here is a pretty funny take on this topic from Resilient AF (it's about relationships with NPD people but I think BPD has many of the same mechanisms and effects just with a different "personality"/vibe): https://fb.watch/DujF9G401Y/?.

[zad7242]

Maxedout:

I greatly appreciate your thoughts, resource, and questions for my own reflection. To answer some of the questions you posed, which are really helpful I would say my wife does have specific behaviors that she wants to see me change and most of them are genuine requests and areas where I struggle. We have six kids and she would like to see me have better self-care so I am a better example to my children, she would like me to step up in preparing meals, doing other chores around the house, planning for the holidays etc. I do work full time and she is a stay at home mom, but all these things are areas I need to and would like to improve - but I don't think they make me a narcissist.

My therapist does not think I am narcissist because he does not think I would be so accommodating of my wife's push for me to limit my contact with my own parents, allow my wife to teach my children things about religion that are against my beliefs, etc. I wouldn't be willing to "keep the peace" for 5 years while being screamed at.

My first wife, who died after 6 years of marriage never brought up anything about me having an issue and she had a NPD mother and she was a doctor at a psychiatric hospital, so she was keenly aware of mental illness and always on guard for PD in the people around her. No one else in my history would take seriously the notion that I have a PD but my wife likes to say "only the spouse usually knows" in these situations. I did have weaknesses and areas of sin of course before my current wife -for example I always had a habit of hiding the truth if I thought it would get me in trouble, but that has actually become a lot worse with my current wife, because I do lie and hide things in order to avoid blowups from my wife and to again keep the peace. I don't like who I am becoming the longer I am with her.

My wife also had me do a brain scan because she was convinced it would show if I had a "narcissistic brain" and when the results failed to do so, she discounted the result, so you are absolutely right - she would discount any finding that does not match her desired outcome.

best!

[IsleOfSong]

Based on what you're sharing here, I'm also confident that there is no way you are a narcissist. Sounds like your wife is projecting and/or dragging you down to prop herself up, both of which are textbook (and toxic) narc moves.

Please do what you can to keep your beliefs of yourself separate from whatever she's saying about you. The fact that you're in therapy and on this board indicate to me that you're a healthy person enduring a serious gaslighting show. I feel for you — especially the part about hiding things from her to keep the peace. After many years of doing the same, and beating myself up for it, I've come to the conclusion that doing so (protecting the things, ideas, and actions that make me "me") is a sign of health and self-preservation. You're not wrong for doing it.

Go easy on yourself, and keep posting! We are here to support you and help you see that what you're dealing with is insidious and corrosive. (And you don't need a brain scan!)

[toe2toe]

Zad,

Stay away from the personality test. It seems to me the negative results will not suffice her curiosity. If you do the test, keep it personal. My opinion would be to stay clear of this train of thought.

Since this is the chosen relationships section, I'm assuming you have younger kiddos and not quite ready for a permanent split.

I've always found this to be true... demands from a NPD will never be fully realized, as the line in the sand will always move to suit her needs. Even if you realize your goals, bueno for you. It will never be enough for her.

What's keeping you back from leaving permanently?

[what_now]

My wife wanted a diagnosis so that she could have an excuse to give the kids for my 'bad behaviour' (made up things by her).
2 x major problems with that,
- Some of our kids do have diagnoses so that line of reasoning would have been terribly damaging for them, a diagnosis doesn't lead to the sort of bad behaviour she was talking about
- The obvious, it was a ploy to put me down and her take control of the kids - she is far too controlling to them. We all hide things so that we aren't... well... chased down etc.
I did do diagnosis in exchange that she did also, I had to do 5 for her to finally do 1. Mine came back overwhelmingly negative and she still tells me that I gamed the system and she doesn't believe them, I didn't find out her results but she is still seeing someone which I hope long term will have good results

[zad7242]

toe2toe,

I totally agree and since posting this issue, I have abandoned the idea of getting tested. What keeps me back from permanently leaving are the children in our blended family. They are all very close in age (all under 12) and are very close. Not sure if she would peaceably allow us to find a way to co-exist for the sake of the children until they are grown. thanks for your input!