Update Missing Him

[Deby64]

Thanks for sharing your experiences. I am 5 months out of my 42 year long marriage to UPDH. I have been no contact for 20 days. I miss him like crazy, but why??? It was toxic and disrespectful. I'm sort of cheating on the NC because our granddaughter lives with me and when she sees him gives me reports on how he's spiraling out of control and attempting to play the victim. Tomorrow I need to meet him at the bank to sign some papers. I'm dreading this. I have no desire to see him, even if I do miss him like crazy. I don't think I've ever shared this part. I am a professional counselor myself, I've been in the field 25 years. Been in my own therapy with different therapist for years. What I've come to realize is some of this issues I worked on really made my situation worse. Most therapist aren't aware of antagonists or narcissists and led me to believe I was to work on codependency. That work did help me not go insane, but it was only the tip of the iceberg. This forum and getting information has saved my life and gave me the courage to walk away. I'm currently getting training under Dr. Ramani to help myself and the patients God has allowed to cross my path. I shared this to say, self knowledge avails nothing without application. This healing journey is the hardest thing I've done in my life. Understanding the trauma bond and what it really means to choose myself is overwhelming. After all I've been through with him I still have this sick hope that he will open his eyes and see his sickness. This is where the radical acceptance comes in. He will not💔 The levels of grief I've experienced over these 5 months is taking the wind out of my sail.
Just felt the need to share and thank you all for supporting me.

[MaxedOut]

I am glad to hear you are engaging with Dr. Ramani's offerings and going NC, Deby64.

You should be very proud of your progress!

Do you actually need to be in each others presence tomorrow? Can the papers be the same time or sign from different rooms in the bank? Banks and other institutions deal with divorce/separation issues regularly and likely have some options.

My guess is that missing him like crazy is also part aboit habit and trauma bonding. I quit drinking years ago and the communities of support were right about the first periods being the hardest. And about the rule of three (three days, three weeks, three months, and three years often being times when things got a lot easier). Perhaps applying some of the mindsets of recovery (not going to touch that today, I don't have to think about the future or forever - just today, It will likely be easier in xx weeks, I can get to that milestone). And maybe exploring how this relationship has features like an addiction-harm, some dopamine hits, illusions of benefit, a comfortable habit?

And a biggie - what are the time and triggers that go along with cravings? If you have quit smoking or drinking this may have been part of the work. Figure out those danger zones and make a plan. For example, if you tend to really feel it at the end of the day, when settled down for the evening, what texture does that have (boredom, loneliness, habit, restlessness)? What can you do to change your routine for those times (e.g. doing a jigsaw puzzle with your granddaughter instead of watching TV)? What plans can you put in place if things are really strong (if I want to reach for the phone and text him, instead I will text my friend Suzy or take a bath, and if that doesn't work, I will just go to bed early, and if that doesn't work I will instead write a note to him and not send it, and if that doesn't work, I will commit not to contact him just for today)?

[MaxedOut]

And I can say this. It gets easier. It gets normal, and good, and easier with time.

Alternatively, not maintaining whatever abstinence boundary means repeating the very hardest part over and over and over again.

That perspective helped me a lot. Thinking three month from now do I want to be through the worst part and healing or still in the muck of the most uncomfortable, hardest part of this process... again...

[Poison Ivy]

Could you ask your granddaughter not to give you reports?

[Deby64]

These are awesome suggestions and I thank you. At the bank it's a freaking check that needs to be signed. I'm angry because it's from an overpayment I made on homeowners insurance, but it's in both our names and he feels entitled to half. I threw a fit when the check came and said no. I've been holding it for over a month. They can't reissues without his name so it's give him the half he doesn't deserve or lose the check amount altogether.So meet and sign it is. Poison, I could ask the granddaughter to not give reports, that's the sick, nosey part of me that wants to know. When I get the reports that he's still sick,sick,sick it helps remind me why I can't and won't go back. That along with some recording of conversations we had. I listen every now and then, they too keep me in reality of what's happened and continues to happen. I just want to feel joy, it does come and go. Just wonder will I ever find my authentic self.

[Poison Ivy]

I'm curious about what my ex does, too. But I think that he and I are better off when I don't know.

[MaxedOut]

Entitled to steal half... at my bank I would probably be able to request an appointment with a customer service rep in a little office to have the transactions completed without any contact with the ex.

I imagine the money entitlement (theft) is part of the motivation and the other two things are (1) power/control/winning and (2) engineering an opportunity to interact (in order to get more of 1, plead his case, just cause an emotional reactions).

You should consider how to neutralize the latter ones and preserve NC as much as possible.

If not wanting to involve the bank staff, maybe your daughter or a friend could handle the handing over of check and half the payment (but really, the staff should be able to accommodate this)? Does it need both parties signing at the same time? If not, what about having him sign and providing a written commitment or promissory note to cut a check for half and handling the bank stuff yourself? That should be adequate to "protect his interests."

At the very least, have a plan for BIFF or grey rocking to avoid getting hooked into any unnecessary dialogue or feeding his supply with emotional reactions. Part of what I am trying to think through here is we partners get our brains cooked a bit about what "has to" happen with PD partners or how things "have to" be done. When we place our own well being, values, and needs first and think through one of these scenarios, there often are multiple ways to do it.

And unhooking our brains often helps question the entire premise, but it sounds like this is a case where you'd rather split the funds that fight his outrageous claim to half a refund of money YOU paid erroneously, which is totally just financial manipulation (if it was reversing a charge on your bank or credit card there would be no debate to even have here).

That's a crappy position he is putting you in.

The whole house situation is so rife with opportunities for him to leverage; I am super grateful my separation and divorce, while involving a lot of temporary housing/moving "stuff" was a clean split. It was expensive to buy my ex out of half the house value but it was also "priceless." I would have been willing to sell and split proceeds too or have her keep it and buy me out (basically open to anything other than continued ownership/financial entanglement).

Right now, your focus is spot on to be occupied in the reactions, internal landscape, etc. of going NC. When you build up those muscles and are grounded in your own reality, I am betting the house situation will no longer feel like a no-options but this, stuck/trapped thing. One direction will become so clear you will wonder how/why it felt so impossible.

You got this, Deby! Have a game plan and back-up plan for the bank thing.

Don't beat yourself up on the overpayment; we all do stuff like this (I had to deal with a couple similar check issues after seperating, luckily handled via my ex's sibling so it was totally reasonable). This is not a normal result; it's not your fault and not anything for you to feel bad about.

It does go to show how much "I should have known, should have been more careful" seeps into everything when we have a manipulative and abusive spouse. And how many things can be used against us in bad faith. But that doesn't make it true. We are human.

[MaxedOut]

I'm curious about what my ex does, too. But I think that he and I are better off when I don't know.

Poison Ivy,

I have an interesting story on this from a couple of months ago. I get curious too and tend towards the occasional googling of exes. Mine started posting some content on YouTube and I was like "oh, from the volume and times, and words, etc. I think ex might be in an episode..." and I would keep checking.

This went on for a week or so, and the big lesson for me was that it totally triggered a bunch of imaginary conversations with the ex in my head, dreams/nightmares about the ex (I had not been having many then basically every night), and my anxiety (a thing generated from the relationship) started creeping back. So I went from generally doing really well to being a bit of a mess within a pretty short period of time, even though there were some payoffs I guess in seeing the content (I do not want the ex struggling with mental health, but curious it's payoffs, payoffs of seeing what is on her mind, etc. but also concern about MH given her having an Axis 1 disorder as well).

The impulse still hits from time to time but it was such a clear "whoa... this is *not* good for me" reaction on my part that I was able to stop it.

I don't know that I would have made the connections in the months after separating versus being a year out and I don't know if I would have realized the negative effects without having incorporated a lot more mindfulness and self awareness practice into my life.

[Deby64]

it's over. We met at the bank of course he was five minutes late. I never made eye contact with him nor speak a word. I spoke to the teller made half in a deposit got the other half back in large bills handed him the large bills without making eye contact or saying a mumbling word to him and walk straight out of the building no words exchanged whatsoever thank you,thank you,thank you.
I'm sure he could tell by the bit*ch face and no eye contact I was not a happy camper. I was surprised my heart didn't race, there was no anxiety when he walked in. I just wanted to get it over with. My reactions or lack thereof even shocked me. Gave me a sense of hope in myself. Can't really explain why. Thanks for all the support.

[Poison Ivy]

Yay, Deby64!

[MaxedOut]

That is an awesome update, Deby!

Great job not giving him supply, and not tending to his emotions for civility's sake when he afforded you no such consideration.

That is huge to not have had your nervous system disregulating! I'd wager 90% of folks in a similar position would have been having to fake that. I like that the main feeling was just wanting to get it over with.

Brava!

[Deby64]

🤦🏾Woke up this morning to a long text message from him. Of course attempting to be as sweet as honey. Saying he could tell my Spirit was not at peace. Wanted me to know he still loves me, blah, blah, blah. I will not respond. It will just put me back on the hamster wheel. Our youngest daughter is expecting a baby anytime now and there will be a shower for her this weekend. I will see him then if he shows up. His disorder doesn't seem to do well in social interactions and he usually avoids them. We will see. The text did make me chuckle,yet, I will not respond. God willing, he is working on his heart and mind. Lords knows I tried and I surrender. God is the only one who can change him🙏🏾

[GoodPesto]

Just dropping by to say I've been following your journey and again and again you seem like superwoman to me. Grace, mylady, seems to be your middle name. Watch out for when you feel super secure, that's often when the next relapse is close. You got this. Best wishes.

[MaxedOut]

Nice handling, again, Deby. I figured there was bound to be a response (sweet, angry, or about something else as an attempt to engage). It's great that you are increasingly seeing "the programming," the ways to hook you, etc. instead of getting wrapped up in the specifics. That was big for me getting Out of the FOG.

"...he could tell my spirit was not at peace." 




I can see why you chuckled, that is rich. Good job not taking the bait or needing to clarify that impression.

[Deby64]

No,No,No. I'm so struggling right now. I guess because I'm in here cooking and fighting back tears. I want to call or text soooo bad. I've call 2 friends to get my mind off him. I didn't even talk about missing him to not make things worse in my head. But had to get on here and yell. DAMN IT, I MISS HIM, but Y💔😡

[MaxedOut]

I am so glad you posted Deby. It is often a steps-forward-steps-back process. Good job calling friends and doing something with your hands. The fact that you reached out to friends and posted here tells me  you want to not contact him in addition to wanting to contact him and are trying to get the former stronger than the latter.

Holidays are a doozy, it's totally understandable to have things swing the other way.

Do you feel you can commit to yourself not to call or text just for today?

Or even just for the next hour?

I know you are wanting to break this cycle and feel more grounded. In facing similar stuff it helped me to make specific time commitments or headspace commitments. By headspace I mean I could decide it was ok to do something or possibly do it but not ok to do it when really feeling that pull, crave, yearning, missing. Once that passed and I was in a grounded spot (Wise Mind in DBT parlance), I could reevaluate.

It may be helpful this evening to look up Dialectical Behavior Therapy worksheets and concepts like Wise Mind as they focus a lot on situations where emotion and reaction are in the driver's seat.

I'll be thinking about you. I am on Thanksgiving #2 post-PD ex and holidays are so much more relaxed and enjoyable- even if there are things I miss.

[Deby64]

Max, thank you sooooo much for the response. DBT here I come 🤣. I know this too shall pass. I'm truly taking it 1 hour at a time. My youngest daughter is sending my 2 y/o grandson to me. He'll be here in 3 hours. I'm super excited so, I can do this 1 hour at a time 🙏🏾
Have an awesome Thanksgiving. Again thanks for being you🎊

[MaxedOut]

How did things go, Deby?

[Deby64]

Max, Thank God. Made it through the night not calling or texting him. Our children are here. They went to visit him of course and said, "Mom, you realize this marriage is irreconcilable, daddy is stuck in his truth and there is nothing you can do or say to change it" That truth still breaks my heart, yet it's 100% truth.

[MaxedOut]

Good job, Deby. And that is some good support and wisdom from your kids-they know all too well.

SonOfThunder had good wisdom of "playing the game tapes" - usually about situations that didn't go how we intended. I think it's valuable to also do that for things that went well.

I might be thinking about questions like:
- What helped get through that?
- Were there specific thoughts, beliefs, attitudes going through my head that helped the part of me
- Which activities, diversions (cooking, calling friends, your grandchild, etc.) helped ease the craving/get me through? And are there characteristics on the ones that worked better that help me think of new options? For me connections with friends family, something mentally and physically engaging, walking/hiking in a specific area, and for intense moments a pressured app game like Tetris did the trick.
- What does it feel like when the emotion/crave drive is on versus off? Do I feel better able to get through these because I have been NC and not in as much FOG? Getting curious about how stuff feels helps create distance from it - where you can feel it but also sort of observe it, like, "yep, there is that stuff, I feel and see it and know it'll will bluster for a bit, then ease up."
- Any changes to my game plan for the next time I am in this situation? ("When I am feeling like I want to reach out, first I will do ______ instead. If I am still feel in like I might, I will do ________....")

This leans a fair amount on the sobriety stuff I talked about. I know people and NC is different than substances-but it seems like that might be helping a bit and seems like your experience really has that nature of intense drives to do something your rational mind and the part that cares for you does not want. As mentioned DBT is good too for strengthening and tapping into Wise Mind.

This may not resonate with anyone else, but it helped me ride substance cravings and to not get as scared by my exes rages to think of the Boggart scenes from Harry Potter. I would think of my own cravings voice as a Boggart or her/her anger. It's a fun trick if it works - "Ridiculous!": https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3PWKFyhJ2h4