The stigma of NC

[Rebel13]

Hi everyone -- can I first send you all best wishes for the upcoming always fraught holiday season, and hope that we all take good care of ourselves, curate our energy, and honor our own wants and wishes as well as everyone else's?

I joined an online class produced by an organization I cautiously respect, based on the work of a person that I think is mostly useful and helpful. At the end of the first session, that person went off on a little screed. I was quite surprised. I feel like the person is someone who should know better, and that it was sort of out of character. The topic was how "especially the younger generation" are cutting off family members left and right when there wasn't "real abuse" but "because they don't want to be inconvenienced" and when "you are taking away the most important thing in someone's life" (relationship with grandchildren) "you better have a darn good reason." The implication being, of course, that most of us don't have a darn good reason, and therefore we are terrible, shallow, uncompassionate people.

Trying not to let negativity bias take over, I'll say the rest of the session was pretty good and I was feeling kind of open and vulnerable, so maybe it hit even harder. I have another, let's say, difference, for which I've been stigmatized my entire life and which my mother used as a reason for her abuse, and for which I was bullied in school. And honestly, I really don't want another way in which I'm "bad" and "wrong" and should change, to make other people feel OK. Also, though, I'm a grown-up now, unlike the vulnerable kid I was when stigmatized for the other reason, and I'm kind of like, you don't get to judge me, and also, eff off.

I thought about sharing something about this in the class forum, but everyone there is going on about how grateful they are to be able to participate in the course, so I brought it here where I knew at least some of you would get it. The stories told here prove that no one is cutting anyone off willy-nilly, that we all struggle hard, for years, with some really terrible behavior, before going that route, and almost always wish we didn't have to. So, if anyone wants to vent about this topic, or share stories, here's your chance.

Thanks for being here.

[bloomie]

Rebel13 - I would be unsettled by this perspective you describe as well.  Do you think you will continue on and see if this kind of thing is repeated?

I just found the most helpful post by Patrick Weaver yesterday addressing this very attitude and view of people going NC. I think his FB post rebuts this type of ignorance or misunderstanding well.
I find his work helpful, but do want to mention that his perspective as an abuse advocate is faith based.

Let's clear up some confusion or confirmation bias regarding a victim's often difficult and forced decision to go No Contact. I posted yesterday on the subject of an abuse victim going No Contact, which objectively stated a victim's reasons for going no contact — not a perpetrator's, and not false or otherwise arbitrary reasons but those that would protect a victim of abuse from destruction. But here's the problem...
Many of the commenters, as is often the case, attempted to misappropriate and carelessly high jack a victim's lived experience, reality, with "whataboutisms" and false equivalents. We, some, routinely insert non-victim scenarios into a victim's reality as if a victim's response is analogous to a cruel, unwarranted or arbitrary perpetrator scenario. When clearly stated and related to a victim, stop conflating a victim's reality with that of a spurious, manipulative, unhinged perpetrator. It's disrespectful, insensitive and offensive.
This is not a page that has or does promote the use of abusive, manipulative or otherwise harmful behavior to get back at innocent people. And neither do most others. Acknowledging an abuse victim's plight does not negate the plight of those injured by alienation, arbitrary or unwarranted desertion, or mean spirited silent treatment. No post or logical statement read anywhere, and especially this page, would suggest or promote that nonsense.
A victim forced to go no contact by cruel, inhumane, abusive and destructive behavior, is not a perpetrator nor is their reason to go no contact "like" or analogous to a non-victim. A victim's plight, a victim's reality is they were given no choice by the depraved indifference of the perpetrator. The victim who goes no contact cut you off because your behavior cut them deeply, repeatedly and unapologetically. The victim who goes no contact isn't punishing you, the victim is saving themselves from your unstoppable soul crushing and insidious behavior. The victim who goes no contact, isn't doing something to harm you, you do something to them so egregious, harmful and recklessly, repeatedly, that relationship with you is emotionally suicidal. The victim who goes no contact isn't doing so without a great deal of grief, hurt and suffering caused by you, that preceded it.
Stop high jacking a victim's story and conflating your unrelated story with a victim's story. Victims of abuse aren't like anybody except an abuse victim, and their story isn't your story if you aren't an abuse victim who has walked in their shoes. Don't discredit a victim's story, plight or circumstance and not be aware that you are revictimizing the victim. If the victim's story is not your story, not your scenario, not your experience, don't negate and reframe the victims story, objectively stated, to substantiate or argue your contrary experience. It's disrespectful.

https://www.facebook.com/patrickweaverministries

[walking on broken glass]

Oh wow Rebel, this would have made my blood boil! Such an ignorant perspective to have and how audaciously stupid to put it out there in a semi-public forum.

Because of my circumstances, I have been thinking a lot about how maligned estranged adult children are. The culture I come from especially puts a lot of emphasis on respecting and looking after the elders, and giving them a pass for bad behaviours because they are old. Adult children are treated as an extension of the family of origin, even when they are well into adulthood and having formed their own lives and families. So you can imagine how unthinkable it is to cut ties with family. You become the scapegoat immediately, if you weren't before.

I would be tempted to write to the leader of the class and say that their perspective does not reflect reality in most cases and is, to say the least, unfair. But you might not want to hash things up.

I am sorry you faced bullying and discrimination from an early age. And yes, absolutely eff off to all those who target you and stigmatise you.

[countrygirl]

Hi Rebel13,

Thank you for wishing everyone the best and telling them to take care of themselves during the "hellidays."

Sorry about your experience. I know all too well that feeling of going into a situation where you think you'll be understood, only to quickly find out that you aren't. That feeling of: Is there a place for me?   

I am sorry that you had this experience.  I agree with walking on broken glass that it is tempting to write and say how hurtful and facile the comments were. Upon reflection, do you feel like doing that?  You are a Rebel, so that is your inclination. But having to constantly defend yourself is tedious.

Some years ago, I started opening up about my experiences, and was dismayed to discover how quickly various people wanted to deny what I had endured.  I grew tired of having to insist that my experiences were real! Such a surreal sensation: Hey, I want to say, "YOU  weren't there!"

Once I told a first cousin that the least you could do for a victim was accept their truth. (She agreed, but when I next spoke with her was back to denial. I found out that in trying to deny my experience, she was trying to deny her own.)  At any rate, insisting upon acknowledgment can be exhausting, and each person has to decide when to speak up and when to remain silent.  I've done plenty of both.

I really relate to what walking on broken glass says about "how maligned estranged adult children are."Although I didn't go NC with my abusive parents, I did go " very low contact."  I needed to do that for survival.  My father was a real charmer, and I know many of the charmed could not understand why I didn't spend more time with him, especially once he aged.  They did not know him. He had a convivial persona, and didn't let anyone close enough to see the real person.  Some saw glimpses, though, and were shocked.

I admire the post bloomie shared from Patrick Weaver. I'm going to print it and reread it when needed.
I do wonder how many people who gloss over abuse were abused themselves, but can't admit it.  Not a small number, I am sure.

To paraphrase w.o.b. glass:  Eff off to all those who target and stigmatize others.  NOW I'm getting into the holiday mood!

Please keep us posted about this group, Rebel13.

[Poison Ivy]

I have three siblings. I see my sister, who lives about 50 miles from me, once per week. This is primarily because sis lives in the same city as our mother, age 97, who resides in an assisted-living facility; sis visits mom almost every day; and I've settled on once-per-week visits as an acceptable contribution on my part. I communicate online with my sister regularly My younger brother lives in another state. I see him when he comes to our state to see our mom. I occasionally communicate onlin ewith younger brother. My older brother lives two blocks from me. I rarely see him, and I am low contact with him generally. I think the low contact was initiated by older bro, although I don't know whether he would agree with my opinion that he "started it." He is married, and according to him, his spouse thinks he is enmeshed with our family, his spouse gets mad when he visits our mom, and he feels uncomfortable with many aspects of his spouse's attitudes and behavior but has chosen to stay married and comply with her demands.

I think my low contact with older brother is quite reasonable under the circumstances. It does feel weird sometimes. For example, older brother sees himself as very helpful, but I do not ask him for help with anything despite his proximity. The message has been conveyed to my sister and me that older brother's spouse regards us as problematic, and I believe that I'm not welcome at their home nor should I be asking older brother for anything that one might think a nearby sibling could provide. Example: Two years ago, I fell down and hit the back of my head on a hard surface while walking near my home. My first thought was, "I hope I'm okay." My second thought was, "If I'm not okay, I'm not going to call brother and ask him for help."

[Rebel13]

Thanks so much for the thoughtful responses, everybody!

bloomie, that post by Patrick Weaver does such a good job of expressing that these situations are really complicated and how important it is to have empathy and compassion for each other. I think about this so often, that when we hear just the briefest details of someone's situation, we can't possibly know "the truth" -- if there even is one! I know a lot of people do, or would, think that I am terrible and selfish for not being in contact with my mom, especially at her age. And maybe they are right! I don't think they are, but I'm sure other people in my past may have experienced my behavior that way, while others like me and seem to want to be around me. People seem so ready to "take sides" and since I'm not in touch with my mom, I must be on the "side" of the ungrateful children, whereas parents whose children cut off contact are on my mom's "side". I'm trying SO HARD not to see it this way, and not to make assumptions about the situation of the other person in the class that can only be based on my own experience. Was she a terrible, abusive PD mom? Is her daughter a horrible, uncaring, selfish child with a PD? Or are they both humans who are trying their best with complex histories and characteristics? I have no way of knowing, and it's not my business.

WOBG, my sister of the boiling blood! LOL. That whole "honor thy mother and father" thing is still such a strong thread in many cultures. Thanks for empathizing with my anger! I'm trying hard not to react out of it.

countrygirl, I loved your comment "I agree with walking on broken glass that it is tempting to write and say how hurtful and facile the comments were. Upon reflection, do you feel like doing that?  You are a Rebel, so that is your inclination. But having to constantly defend yourself is tedious." You got me on the tendency to rebel, for sure. I'm kinda proud of myself that I didn't start a flame war in the comments the minute the session was over.   I guess maybe I AM capable of growing and maturing. I'm still contemplating how I want to respond. They posted the recording of the session so I'll be able to go back and take notes about exactly what was said, to make sure I'm not misremembering or overreacting.

Also spot on, "I do wonder how many people who gloss over abuse were abused themselves, but can't admit it.  Not a small number, I am sure." Yes, identifying with the perpetrator to feel safe is definitely a THING. I'm so glad you and others here are brave enough not to do that.

Poison Ivy, my heart breaks for you that your second thought upon falling was about NOT calling your brother! It's really tragic how abuse breaks family bonds. I wish we all had the loving relationships that we'd really like to have. But since we don't, I'm sending you all good wishes and thoughts that you are finding your way to love and kindness despite that missing piece, and that in the final analysis we'll all say it's been worth it.

[TimetoHeal]

Rebel,

I'm so sorry you experienced that!  I hope you have been able to process it and recover from it since then, or at least, are still doing so.

There seems to be some kind of "blow back", especially on social media, from parents and grandparents about how they have been "unjustly" cut out of their children's and grandchildren's lives.  There are some humorous pages/reels/accounts/etc. that show some of these people going off about how their adult children have cut them out of their lives for "absolutely no reason".  The funny thing is the person posting and all the viewers and commenters can see in about 3 seconds EXACTLY why their family cut them off.  The entitlement, the lack of self awareness...Anyway, it can bring a little humor to the situation, if that might make you feel better, although I always caution about going down too much of a rabbit hole on social media. 

Take care, Rebel.

[Rebel13]

Oh yes, TimetoHeal, one of my favorites is the analysis at issendai.com about estranged parents' forums. I definitely knew the narrative was out there but did NOT expect to hear it from this particular person. I guess it just goes to show...

[Poison Ivy]

There's an article in the current issue of Psychology Today titled, "How to Heal a Family Split." I didn't read every word of it, but I got the sense that it leans in favor of parents of adult children (versus in favor of the adult children). There might be some discussion of "whether to heal a family split" but not enough.

[xredshoesx]

I don't talk a lot about WHY I am NC with my biological mother with folks other than here, but when they press it I flat out tell them she got away with killing one of my half sisters and that ends the conversation quickly.  sometimes you have to tell people the absolute facts for them to get it.

[Rebel13]

How to Heal a Family Split, by Rebel13:

Don't be a d*ck.

 

[Poison Ivy]

I agree with you, Rebel13!

[TimetoHeal]

There's an article in the current issue of Psychology Today titled, "How to Heal a Family Split." I didn't read every word of it, but I got the sense that it leans in favor of parents of adult children (versus in favor of the adult children). There might be some discussion of "whether to heal a family split" but not enough.

Yes!  I saw this in the waiting room at my therapist appointment recently!  I don't believe she subscribes to it, but it was disappointing all the same. 

[TimetoHeal]

How to Heal a Family Split, by Rebel13:

Don't be a d*ck.