Did you see it?

[Liketheducks]

I know many of us are outside the US, but there was an interesting podcast by Oprah Winfrey about adult children/parent estrangement.   It was a bit more biased by Oprah than I would've liked....especially since she herself was the victim of abuse and had/has a complicated relationship with her family abusers.   I would have thought that it would have been an excellent opportunity for her to talk about her own experience....but I guess when you're Oprah, you do whatever you want.   It is on YouTube. 

It was SO validating for me to hear others' experiences.   The biggest takeaway I had was that for many parents, it seems they're confusing their role and relationship.  Or that the role of parent entitles them to a relationship with their adult children, despite not doing anything to maintain a relationship.   

What really hit home for me was that in my VLC/NC with my mother....she actually cut me off.  She didn't get her way. Then she promptly told the family that I had gone NC with her.   I'm virtually NC with her now because she keeps approaching me for me to "fix" the relationship, but has done nothing to repair the damage she caused.   She denies that she told my whole family a lie about me.  Distant cousins still denigrate me for it.   

Watching the show and replaying the events just make me angry.   I've felt guilt and shame for protecting my peace for so long, that I think this is a natural progression or maybe even healing to feel a bit angry over this.     

[Tribe16]

I watched it. I've watched several influencers in the estrangement sphere comment about it too - the consensus is, "Oprah, it's not a trend".

The biggest takeaway I had was that for many parents, it seems they're confusing their role and relationship.  Or that the role of parent entitles them to a relationship with their adult children, despite not doing anything to maintain a relationship.   

I think this is spot on LTD. My situation is similar. I went VLC but Mom continued sending PA texts via Messenger, and where she used to just make heart emojis on my posts, I was downgraded to like emojis - to a normal person this sounds like a petty observation - I get it. But it was yet another way for Mom to put me in my place. When I blocked her totally on SM due to a devastating response to some good news, I think she went into a narcissistic injury, won't call, won't text (she still can text my phone normally and she has my email, and she could even call if wanted to. But she doesn't and she won't. So yeah, my choice was VLC, hers is NC but of course, it's all my fault.

If anyone is interested in watching the podcast, here is a link on YouTube https://youtu.be/cK7EJgILMIk?si=pAb_tI7rfDYcg7kj

I was also intrigued by Oprah's response given her history. I think I understand it a little though - I'm a young boomer, my mother is SilentGen. There are still a lot of people around my age that think you just put up with what your family dishes out, that's the way it's always been, that's the way it is. If you're not 1) totally traumatized, 2) curious - meaning you want answers, you read books to find out "WHY?!?", listen to podcasts, watch reels, go to forums like this, how will you really know any different?

I think this is a natural progression or maybe even healing to feel a bit angry over this.   

I'm coming to terms with all the times I've gaslit myself and said "It's not as bad as other people have it". That's true, some people had it really really bad. But at the end of the day, I get angry because I have a mother who cannot love me unless I bow at her altar, agree I'm a terrible, ungrateful child, agree to be her emotional wastebin for life, and accept that she is top dog on the hierarchy: Top sufferer, Top unlucky in life, Top does everything for everybody without appreciation, Top Woe Is Me, Top YOU HURT MY FEELINGS. And that's sad, and I have every right to grieve that and say, "No, I'm done doing that."

If people have more information than they did 5, 10, 20 years ago and that's the trend. Maybe then it's a trend. I would say that there's generations of women (and men) that think it's perfectly fine to suck the life out of their families and not bat an eyelash about it. I don't know if it's been that way forever, but that seems to be trending to me.

[Liketheducks]

Your comment about being the Top Dog in everything resonates with me.    I am grateful that it seems societally we've expanded what abuse is...and that we're talking about protecting our mental health in ways that previous generations didn't have available to them.   I agree.   It is definitely not a new trend or an epidemic.   I've been estranged from my father for the last nearly 40 years.   

[Call Me Cordelia]

Estrangement is not a trend, but I think awareness may be. I mean my grandparents' generation had plenty of estrangements, or "falling outs" as my mother laughably called them. I was a child but I was aware of them, but also the narrative was that the people involved were stubborn and plain wrong. I don't know enough context to have an opinion of it, but it was a thing. Her father's two sisters didn't speak and if Aunt Cat came to a family event Aunt Dory wouldn't and vice versa. My mother's mother likewise had a brother who lived nearby and nobody ever saw. Their father was an alcoholic and it all just goes back and back and back. I think it's going to be hard to go back on the awareness and insight and prioritization of mental health, though.

The entitlement part about how the parent believes they have the right to the relationship without doing a damn thing to maintain or even while actively harming the child rings 1000% true to my experience. Both for myself and people I know IRL who are NC with parents.

[Tribe16]

The entitlement part about how the parent believes they have the right to the relationship without doing a damn thing to maintain or even while actively harming the child rings 1000% true to my experience. Both for myself and people I know IRL who are NC with parents.

This right here 

If anything is a trend, what has changed is the generation underneath this has said enough. This has to stop. If you won't, then I will refrain from participation.

[NarcKiddo]

Estrangement is not a trend, but I think awareness may be.

I think that's right. (I have not heard the Oprah podcast, BTW.) It occurs to me that there may be a link with the fact that divorce is no longer a stigma. My mother comes from a "broken home" and she felt it was a shameful thing. She should really have divorced my father but would not due to her own experiences so we lived in a whole other level of dysfunction. And I think she now feels that because she kept the family together "for the children" we owe her as much family life as she demands. If she tells us to jump we are supposed to ask How high?

I guess societal understanding that it was better if some couples split then grew to cover the feuds and fallings out that were previously shoved under the carpet. And people realised there is actually no benefit in putting up with all kinds of crap for the sake of appearances.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Interesting. There's an element in the entitlement of, "I put up with abuse my whole life and now it's your turn." Of course that level of honesty usually is not present, but that's exactly the cycle we're breaking.

My mother likewise should have divorced, but stayed because honestly I think she had absolutely no sense of self left between her uNmother and her uNH.