Blame Shifting in complaint situations and blowing issues out of proportion

[Ellie123]

My husband (married 3 years) has shown this self comforting habit from earlier on in our relationship of getting his hands in his boxer shorts when we lie in bed an is randomly touching his goolies, normally in the morning/evening. I personally find it awkward and disturbing, perhaps it is a men's thing to fiddle with their bits but I do not want to be around it, if we are not in an intimate situation together. I never said anything to him as I am afraid to speak up as any unpleasant observation/complaint targeted towards him will lead into an out of proportion argument.

In the past before we met, he said he had a cyst on one of his goolies, but it was all checked and clear, so I didn't think anything of it further. Recently he has developed another cyst which I organized the doctor's appointment so it will be looked into soon.

When he was fiddling with his goolies once again one evening, I have stupidly brought up this fact as I was tired and irritated and all the drops of my patience were gone, and said I find it awkward. First of all, since I didn't know how to approach it, I talked about the general hygiene of the situation (not targeting his personal hygiene), and then I said I find it awkward to be around it when fiddles with his bits.

He got absolutely ballistic and the argument has been going for 3 days now. He played it on the fact he was checking his lump (fair enough if he was however I have no idea what he is doing - I would possibly appreciate a comment to let me know what is he doing if it is in my presence?). Also, self reflecting on it, I probably picked a sensitive time to talk about this issue, which gave him the room to attack.

He made himself into an absolute victim saying the following:
- I find him disgusting and unhygienic (I said I find touching balls and then not washing hands unhygienic and I told him million times today I do not have a problem with his general hygiene and I appreciate how much he showers and washes himself and I find him very clean).
- He is concerned about his lump and I am preventing him from checking his testicles and I do not care about him and I care about my own needs and comfort only and he simply cannot believe how dared I to bring this up when he is concerned about his health and shame him for that.
- I completely ruined any intimacy in our marriage and he does not know how can be intimate with me again
- I should put up with whatever the partners habits are, because we are here to take each other as we are and not moaning about our flaws.

I have apologized over and over again, reassured him I am not attacking his personal hygiene, I said I did not mean to offend him or God forbid stop him from checking his lumps, I tried to explain I did not know how to approach the situation and talked about the hygiene of the situation to open up the conversation because I was worried if I tell him directly I find it awkward he will find it insulting. Also I have multiple times apologised that I approached it in wrong moment with wrong words and that is my bad.

He has been going over this again and again for 3 days now, being offended, hurt and he cannot believe this and cannot get over it. He is saying when I question him it always comes across and a complaint towards him/me not being happy with him. Which I think is the main issue, he takes everything from me negatively as an unkind attack. For example, the other day he was just to himself, and I asked if he is alright because he has been quiet? And he took offence to it as he read it as I am telling him I am unhappy about him being quiet.

This is so extremely frustrating and draining, and I am trying my very best to rephrase myself and ask different questions however his response never changes and my communication style is there to blame.

I feel guilty and bad and as a failure my communication gets blamed, and I do want to fix it and have been trying however it always turns out like this, I have been seeing a therapist to improve myself.

Please if you have experienced same frustrations would you share how did you move past this.

Thank you!

[MaxedOut]

I have no experience with this particular type of behavior but the gist of it is certainly familiar. An example would be almost any comment, or "look," or whatever related to spending. My ex has online shopping, spending, etc. issues and self-comforting behaviors.

I wouldn't stress about it much when we both were getting paychecks or otherwise in the black, but there were a lot of extended times when we were underwater financially and I would be living in austerity land while she was... not. For the most part I just kept the stress and thoughts to myself in order to avoid getting put on blast or triggering a shame spiral that would probably also end in getting a lot of anger and abusive language coming my way (no matter how gently approached).

Anyway... that's a bit of background. The part that made me think of this was in the last few years of my marriage, a thing that would happen pretty commonly if there was some financial tension would be accusations that I don't support/get my ex's need for disability tools/resources. Whatever thing that may have had me stressed would not be anything related to purchasing something for pain relief or mobility, but, like your SO, it was an easier place to be (blaming/criticizing the pother person) than whatever guilt/shame comes up (which is usually not what the other person wants at all either).

So for example, daily restaurant meal delivery spending when we were spending thousands more than income each month and when I was happy to cook (and am good at it) or at least save on cost by getting carryout would somehow get torqued into me being totally uncaring and an a$$h0le and financially controlling (LOL!) about my exes health and about disabilities and her spending on what she needs for disabilities.

It's like the funhouse mirror room where you are trying to figure out how one thing led to another. Not exactly DARVO, but similar in flipping the person with a concern. And getting told what we think, feel, believe is incredibly frustrating. In my case, the accusations sometimes came fast and seemingly randomly as my ex searched for emotional purchase internally and whatever hooked me to flip into full apologizing and reassuring mode. It is exhausting, and makes the non-PD seriously consider bringing up anything. Which I think subconsciously (maybe consciously) is a secondary benefit/payoff.

I don't know if I have useful insight. I did find that not getting wrapped up in the JADE (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain) loops helped, and sticking to specific behaviors and just repeating the message instead of engaging in whether something is "justified" or "fair" helped reduce the length of the meltdown. I think the book Stop Caretaking or Stop Walking on Eggshells talks about this a bit: repeated, simple messages that non-PDs might find irritating if repeated are actually helpful for PD folks (especially when they are not regulating well). Indeed it sometimes helped her actually hear me, re-regulate, and come back after a bit of reflection and agree/understand but at least kept the circular and JADE loops down (it takes two to have those sorts of convos, if one person just keeps stating a one sentence "when your/someone does [behavior] I feel [emotion]").

And framing as something not individual (it's not about your balls dear husband, I feel uncomfortable around anyone casually ball-handling) or we/team framed can help pull the PD out of feeling personally attacked. And the threats (sex, in your case) are usually are about reactions/getting the other person to panic, pull back, and comfort. But they can be a good chance to reinforcing couple values and autonomy ("I value our sex life, but I don't want you doing something you are uncomfortable with either. I love your body and intimacy *and* want that to be a good space for us both. And I don't care about or jwhat you do on your own-it's your body.").

With my ex, a bit of the D of JADE did seem to be helpful or she'd take me not saying anything as confirmation, but it was a fine line to navigate without getting pulled in, so something like "I didn't say that" then the summary sentence. And sometimes just "Don't tell me what I think please. I am not willing to continue this conversation if you keep telling me what I think or feel."

The BIFF method of communication can help too for stuff like this (there are a couple of good books but the acronym means Brief, Informative, Friendly, and Firm).

It sucks to have to think through things like this and be so concerned with their reactions and possible blowback. When like a non-PD person might feel some discomfort or guilt/shame and work their way to hearing the message.

Or, you know, alternate/playful methods to help a normie partner "get it" like flipping the script... flop down on the couch, let a burp rip, and stick you hands in your underwear because "it's not just balls that itch, babe! Nothing to be concerned about health wise though-I don't have fire crotch, just the usual having-a-vag stuff. Especially at this point in my cycle!" then hand him the remote without washing your hands. 

[Rebel13]

Hi Ellie,

I don't have a PD partner but I grew up with a very disordered and self-absorbed mom, and this dynamic is pretty familiar if only in hindsight.

I want to say a couple of things:
1. In a "normal" relationship (whatever that is) it's perfectly reasonable to make calm requests of the other person. For example, to calmly ask them to take care of personal business in private, if that's what you prefer. My partner and I discuss hand-washing frequently since clean hands are especially important when being intimate with a woman and in our cases we have additional health issues and are prone to infections. Neither of us takes offense at being reminded of this.
2. It makes sense to me that you would feel nervous about bringing up the subject, given what you know about your partner's patterns, and that you might not express yourself in an "ideal" way. Again, in a "normal" relationship, there's space for people to not do things perfectly every time and you don't get punished for 3 days for making a mistake.
3. You do not have to take part in any activity you're not comfortable with. For example, if you are uncomfortable with your partner touching himself outside of intimacy with you, you can get up and leave the situation. And you don't have to explain. Similarly, if you are done having a particular conversation or listening to particular communications be repeated, you can leave the situation. MaxedOut's example is a good one: "I'm not willing to continue this conversation if you keep telling me what I think or feel." And the condition after the "if" can be anything fair and reasonable, or nothing at all: "You've expressed your point of view on this several times and I'm not going to continue this conversation." And then leave the room.

The Toolbox articles on boundaries and medium chill have a lot more information about this.

And MaxedOut wins the internet once again:

Or, you know, alternate/playful methods to help a normie partner "get it" like flipping the script... flop down on the couch, let a burp rip, and stick you hands in your underwear because "it's not just balls that itch, babe! Nothing to be concerned about health wise though-I don't have fire crotch, just the usual having-a-vag stuff. Especially at this point in my cycle!" then hand him the remote without washing your hands. 

 

[downwiththefog]

Hi
> - I completely ruined any intimacy in our marriage and he does not know how can be intimate with me again

this accusation (which I get very often from my uNPw) is an alarm bell to me.
People who genuinely love each other do not need to use these "absolute" accusations and "forever" "all/nothing" statements.

I'd ignore these accusations and build self-resilience in the face of gaslighting/projections/blaming.

I think I did - but the sad outcome is that you realise you're living alone though formally part of a couple.

[1footouttadefog]

This sexual self soothing is a red flag. I have read many stories where it goes hand and hand with porn addiction and masturbation issues later leading to sexless marriages.  Narcissists love no one more than themselves. 

The sanitation issue is something we had problems with here.  Once dementia started to set in my husband would scratch his nuts or butt or feat then without washing hands after being seen doing such would be seen in the kitchen reaching on the bread bag then handling items from the fridge to make a sandwich and similar scenarios.  He would also pick his noise and ears.

The idea that he was doing dishes or handling them to put them away etc was awful.

He ended up having some mental issues requiring two weeks in the hospital and when he came home, I had moved him into a studio I created out of our basement.  He lives like a neighbor who comes up touch and dinner and runs errands with me.

The kids loved the change while still here.