Does this sound like PD?

[Questioning_lady]

Hey everyone,

I am looking for some support and advice from the wise people of this forum.

I apologize for this terribly long post in advance.

I have been married to my husband for 5 years now, we have a young child together. I moved to another country to be with my husband and have now essentially found myself trapped.

Our relationship has always been very high conflict, however I am suddenly waking up and realizing there is something more to it. I know that we are living in a cycle of violence with very typical stages outlined everywhere. I have always thought that my husband is a deeply loving man with some childhood wounds and a bad temper, however I am now wondering wether my husband has a personality disorder.

To describe him, he is a very intelligent man who prides himself in his intellectual achievements, he holds a very influential position at work. He can often be extremely kind, loving, compassionate and generous. However there is another side to him. He loses his temper easily, he has punched numerous walls and doors in our home. In the last year he also engaged in name calling, severe projections, demeaning language. My husband sees himself as a gentle man who takes accountability non stop, however he really is not able to take accountability. He seems to see any sort of request for accountability as a personal attack and a smear campaign. I try to have conversations about the fact that his wall punching is terrifying and damaging (this should be an easy thing to talk about because the wall punching is a fact you can not deny), but he sees this as an attack on his personality. I realized that he uses Darvo every single time I ask for accountability, leaving me absolutely confused and guilty. I feel like I have been living in fog for a few years now, I am never able to pinpoint what happened in an argument and honestly even lose track of what he is saying or what I was trying to say, I end up apologizing every time. I have significant amnesia when it comes to our fights, all I remember is the damage to things and the awful feeling in my gut. My husband is also surprisingly unclean and disorganized, which does not fit the persona of the highly intellectual executive. He is also highly spiritual, but he will use spiritual concepts in an argument to deflect and confuse me. He tends to get absorbed in his hobbies, he will spend alot of money and his personal time on hobbies, he will talk about them non stop and will demand that I listen to audio, watch videos about his hobbies whenever we are together. He seems unable to stand any of my emotions, whenever I am sick (wether it's pregnancy or flu) he tells me I am imagining it and disease is all in the mind. The only peaceful and good times we have are when I am absolutely centered, when I do not ask him for emotional support, do not lean on him with my concerns/fears. My husband explains that my emotions are a burden because he is going through alot at work (the company he works for is constantly struggling and it really is a stressful job with uncertainty). My husband gives lavish gifts, however he will always use them against me in argument to make me feel guilty and ungrateful.

Up until now I did not see the manipulation tactics used against me, I thought I was the problem all along. I feel like I woke up into a nightmare. I know most people will tell me to leave immediately and I know this will likely be inevitable for me, however I need to get my finances and support in order.

I have wondered whether he is a narcissist many times, however he does not have the traits of the typical grandiose narc. Does this sound like he has any of the cluster B or other personality disorders?

Thank you

[Rebel13]

Hi Questioning_lady, the behaviors you describe do sound quite familiar. However, I personally think a diagnosis is less important than the answer to the question, is this relationship acceptable to you? It sounds like you have tried to discuss your concerns with your husband but he has not been responsive or, as you say, "he really is not able to take accountability." That, to me, is more important to consider than whether he may or may not have a certain diagnosis.

With that said, it can be helpful to have a name for behavior to begin researching solutions, so you might want to look up one of the many online quizzes about personality disorders and see if you can get some insight and more information that way.

I think the violent/destructive behavior is a pretty big red flag. I grew up with a father who punched walls and hit people and it was terrifying. Property destruction can sometimes be a first step in escalation of violence to control the behavior of others with fear. If you have a domestic violence agency close to you, you might see if you can meet with a counselor to discuss the situation and make a safety plan.

Best of luck. Please focus on safety for yourself and your child. And let us know how you are doing.

[bloomie]

Questioning_lady - welcome to Out of the FOG. I am thankful you reached out and trusted us with a snap shot of the complex and concerning dynamics in your relationship. I am sad to think of you and a child living on eggshells in this volatile atmosphere. I have included a link to some resources that could be a support to you and second Rebel13's suggestion of seeking out the expertise of those who are specifically trained to help you make decisions and take steps going forward like domestic violence counselors.

Emergency Resources

If you have a way to journal what is happening in order to not fall victim to Abuse Amnesia that may help in the gaslighting and self doubt after an abusive episode.

Putting your child's and your own wellbeing and safety first as you gather your resources is wisdom. Let us know how you are as you are able. Sending you the strength of lions!

[1footouttadefog]

It certainly reads as if you are living with personality disorder.  Of you feel safe enough for you and your child to remain in the home with him it is possible that things can improve.

No diagnosis is needed.  It's likely best you do not approach him with a suggestion he has a diagnosis at first if ever.

Instead and this will seem backwards, you have to work on you.  You should not be trapped, he should not be your everything.  You need holistic self care.  You need friends outside of the marriage, hobbies, fitness and exercise time, time for music and art, and spiritual practice, time for sleep, hygiene, grooming, etc etc. 

If you fill your life out you won't be as empty and you will not be expecting as much of him.  This will likely lessed the burden he feels regarding your feelings and not meeting expectations he my be perceiving from you. 

There is a 100 traits list on this site.  When I first started exploring the idea that my H has a PD, I found this and marked all the ones he did and all the ones I did.  I also marked whether they were habitual or just in response to abuse.  This gave great insight about how and what types of abuse I was experiencing and gave me a vocabulary for some things I knew were not quite right but had a hard time explaining.

I decided to work on all my items from that list then I would know I had don't my very best of things came to an end.

I hope you also visit the tool box area as these help alot of us not okay into their games. 

Reminder for self care your child needs you strong and healthy as you navigate this for the both of you.  Unless you are in danger you don't have to make any sudden changes.  You can take time to learn and digest what is probably a mountain of information and emotions. 

 

[Rebel13]

Hi again, I just came back to post a link to a free PDF of this book:  Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft

I see you have gotten some great advice and resources from others! Again, wishing you well, and please take care of yourself and your child.

[MaxedOut]

I second the rec for Why Does He Do That? I'd also add The Verbally Abusive Relationship.

A good bit of your story is familiar from my marriage. My uBPDw also is diagnosed with a mood disorder. A big peice of coming Out of the FOG was a point similar to Rebel's first answer mentioning that they feel a specific diagnosis is less important than whether  the relationship is acceptable to you. I spent yearrrrrssss learning about Axis 1 disorders, Axis 2 disorders, advice for those with those disorders, advice for those in relationships with folks with those disorders.

One area where I really did a lot of this was in trying to make the abusive behaviors make sense. Many groups for PD and mood disorders will be quick to state abuse is not part of the disorder. I spent a lot of time trying to understand the sorts of behaviors you mention because that was more comfortable than the simple truth of things: that I was getting abused, in a number of ways, for years.

Because when you sit with that... we *know* that is so far beyond OK, that it calls for more significant action than we may be comfortable taking. And it brings truth to the impact to ourselves. It shakes what we may have thought we would tolerate in relationships. It breaks our hearts, because we love that person. It breaks our heart because abuse is a heartbreaking dehumanization.

The big "ahas" for me was a couple of truths:
- It doesn't matter if the abuse is happening because of a PD, or a mood disorders, or an abusive personality. Because it doesn't change the reality of being abused.
- It doesn't matter whether our spouse can help themselves. Either they can't help themselves, which means they are absolutely not safe to be around. Or they can help themselves, and simply don't value us enough to bother doing so. They have chosen, over and over again, the payoffs of abusing us to make themselves feel better over treating us with care.

It took me a while to work through this stuff, exhaust boundary setting to try and stop the behaviors, work with DV folks and therapists for safety and exit planning, etc. I understand not feeling like you can't upend everything right now. I would appeal to you to do safety planning while figuring things out. This should include ways to keep yourself safer and less exposed to abuse generally (e.g., not remaining in the home when your spouse is disregulated), emergency preparation if you are there and things go sideways (e.g., having a codeword with a friend to call police, knowing how to get yourself and child out of the house via  multiple exit points, having an accessible backup phone - an old phone without service will still dial emergency services in most areas), and planning and preparation  for a short or planned exit  is, which should include planning to leave immediately (go bag, spare cash/keys, etc.) as well as a more measured exit (copies of key documents, checklist of actions to take, figuring out where you can stay). It is a lot better to plan and not need it than not plan and need it. And you'll feel a lot stronger having a sense what you would/can do if leaving, whether for a few hours or permanently.

I am sorry you are going through all of this, especially within a child involved and with some geographic isolation. A therapist can help you talk through what you will and will not tolerate and figure out boundaries for yourself and to protect your child.

Note that abusive patterns tend to ratchet up over time and with significant commitments like moving in together, marriage, and having a child. So definitely try to avoid further stuff here (e.g., getting pregnant, buying a new house) and know that part of what is so tricky with these situations is that kind of progressive quicksand.

[toe2toe]

Questioning_Lady,

Here are my two cents:

Yes, your situation sounds extremely familiar. I think it was Dr. Ramani who said, "all of these PD people go to the same school". Once you see their behavior for what it really is, you cannot unsee it. I've been married for over 15 years, children in the mix, and I just filed for divorce. We have been recently separated before as I think it takes a few times to successfully leave a narc. They know your soft spots and use them fully to their advantage to keep you around.

Here is what I have learned from all of this... you have had your awakening, eye-opening, can't unsee what I've experienced moment(s). That really is step one in this process. You know that you know that you know something is off, and it isn't you, it's them. However, you cannot quite put your finger on it. Step two is when you start to do some research and look for some affirmation. You absorb the toolbox, you look at videos on YouTube, you read some books on the issue. You become very familiar with personality disorders. You go into conversations with your NPD spouse with more information and an air of curiosity. You recognize DARVO, gas-lighting, lies, manipulation. When the NPD spouse wants something from you they will ALWAYS use fear, obligation, and guilt to get their way. Step three for me was setting boundaries, not my strongest skillset BTW. I honestly thought married couples weren't allowed to have boundaries. At least, I was conditioned to believe this. It was at this point when I would no longer tolerate harmful discussions. This was my turning point. Through personal counseling, I found a tiny voice inside me. It whispered, you are not a doormat, you have self-worth, you can make decisions by yourself for yourself, I am not the problem, and life is too short. Almost every conversation with her was desperation on her part. Big time fear, obligation, and guilt. The final straws were when, as you pointed out, 1). she would not accept accountability for her actions and 2). I realized I could never go back to "playing my role" in this marriage. (If you know, you know).

Ignorance truly is bliss in relationships with PD people. Well, maybe not exactly bliss. Once you have your 'eye-opening' experience, it is really hard not to see life for what it really is.

Lastly, no article, video, book or blog post can make your mind up for you. When we separated the first time, it wasn't time for divorce so I moved back home. When I made plans to move out the second time, something happened out of my control, so I stayed. When it is time for you, as it was for me, you will know when the time is right to start your new chapter in life.

Be blessed,

Toe2Toe

[downwiththefog]

He seems to see any sort of request for accountability as a personal attack and a smear campaign.

Welcome to this amazing forum. I agree with all that was said here. Focus on yourself. Fixing the other is hopeless at best, likely counterproductive. I too tried to "diagnose" my uPDw and even to explain her condition to her!!!
Big mistakes, for which I'm still paying with abuse and projections. But learning about behavioral patterns, the toolbox and other people experiences has been immensely helpful.
Good luck and post as often as you like, having someone to talk to is very helpful.