Smaller than miniscule contact?

[moglow]

Hello all! I've been fairly absent from the board for a while now, life's been challenging and my "adjust and rethink" skills have been in full gear. A bit of a catch-up:

I became "retired" last summer - I was working for my older brother [small business] and he closed the office I was managing August 2024. Business didn't improve and we found that I was quite simply no longer needed, my salary a continuing drain on limited income. He'd already [thankfully] thought it through, between my retirement already in place and early social security, it's manageable. It's not always easy and doesnt' allow much wiggle room but for now at least it's doable - I've found that at 63, almost 64, potential employers aren't charmed. Ageism is a thing, folks, even if hidden beneath very specific skill sets required. I'm "too experienced" for entry level, don't have the specific education and training they feel is needed.

I didn't share that with mommie dearest, felt it wasn't her business or concern. One of my brothers, thinking she knew, said something about it a few months later. I received an oh-so-concerned text, that she hoped I find a new job soon. Our "conversations" this past year have become less and less, there's little interest or curiosity on any level. When I introduce pretty much any subject it's blown off, usually with a negative comment if anything at all. I ask questions and may or may not get any answer at all, and even those are brief and noncommittal.

Then mid-October I called and as soon as she answered it was clear it wasn't a good day. Before I'd hardly said more than "I was just calling to see how you're doing ..." she told me in no uncertain terms that there's no reason for me to be calling there anymore. And she hung up. I've asked a few times since what happened, why she responded in that way - nothing. She doesn't want to talk about it - but surely there's a reason?? She becomes very agitated and stops responding. I've now been told that she "doesn't want and will not talk about all that. Ever" All that being anything she considers in the past, she wants a clear slate and we just have to rebuild going forward.

Okay - rebuild WHAT? We don't have foundation for even the most basic relationship. I don't trust her, have no reason to. She lashes out and loses her shit at random and never acknowledges any harm done. Explains nothing, refuses to talk much beyond her random texts of "I hope you're doing all right and staying warm." Looks all nice on surface but that's truly all it is, superficial. She engages in no conversation on any subject.

A few weeks ago she text that she has something she'd been wanting to say: It seems I don't capitalize mother in texts, went into it's common courtesy, there's NO exception and she always uses a capital letter when using my name. Mmmmkay. I told her basically: Noted, and you might notice I don't always use any capital letters at all - they're texts. I was more concerned with content than form. Also told her I didn't know why or how long she'd been holding on to this, but duly noted going forward. She said it hadn't happened recently - so you dredged this up out of nowhere because ...?? Just so incredibly petty of her really, trying to force ... Something?

I suggested that since texts seem to be an ongoing issue for her [I was also somehow responsible for notifications and they're so annoying...] perhaps she might consider not texting in future. Her: "But then we'd have no contact at all. Is that what you want?" [thereby confirming her "no reason to call here anymore" of months ago] Me: That's not what I said - it seems texts are an issue, and I was offering a suggestion to alleviate the supposed stress they cause. No response.

So yeah, we're truly at an impasse here, where I make polite non-committal responses or a thumbs up. And knowing that at some point that too will likely be a problem for her. She's just shifting goal posts no matter what. And yet she wonders why no one calls or visits, why nobody has much contact with her.

[Call Me Cordelia]

That's stinky, and I'm sorry this is where you are. I think you're very clear on how this is simply your mother's choice to how she approaches her relationship with you, and nothing to do with you. However you utilize your capitals and punctuation. Whatever.

[moglow]

Yeah, she sunk to and got herself wedged into a whole new low. I mean, out of all the texts over however long and that's where she went - correcting my grammar? She just wanted me to be aware. Not sure that went as she had planned.

Just pathetic.

[NarcKiddo]

Ugh. They are so tiresome. Mine waited for a week after one of my visits before telephoning me to inform me the outfit I had been wearing was hideous and must never be worn again. I am sorry you have to deal with this crap.

[moglow]

Wow. You have to wonder, what's their point really? Why bother go to the trouble of saying negative things, criticisms of random bs? I mean, if that's the best they can do, they can have it with all my blessings.

Me, I'd wear that very outfit *every" visit going forward. 😄

[Call Me Cordelia]

Yes... bringing up stuff from the past that doesn't actually hurt them, but they chose to take personally and stew on for a week or a month or years, to bludgeon us with and try to make us feel bad.

My teenage son has a catchphrase that's apparently popular now and I confess I really find it apt a lot of the time... "That sounds like a you problem!"

[Liketheducks]

I'm so sorry.   With my mom, calling was the problem...now texts are.   I'm sure she'd find a way to feel put out by anything I do, so I just don't try anymore.   It's not worth my peace trying to find constantly changing "right" thing to do

[moglow]

LTD, my older brother was relieved when she started texting, said at least he didn't have to hear that voice now. He sure had a point. I'm not sure when she and I last had a conversation where she didn't cut me off mid sentence and/or hang up without warning. Now she does it via text. I mean, when you stoop to correcting grammar instead of the multitude of actual conversation attempts. 🤷🏻�♀️

I'm where you are. I tried everything I could think of for far too long and she continued to find fault. She can have it. If the silence is bothersome for her, it just is.

[SaintBlackSheep]

I'm sorry you're dealing with that. I too have been on a narc hiatus here, but I needed to come back, and your post is the first I read, and I feel "sane" again because this is so relatable. They are just hard wired for negativity, aren't they? It doesn't even matter what the topic is or how hard they have to dig to find it, as long as they have *something* to latch onto and be awful about, that's enough for them. I haven't talked to my parents in months, but before that, I'd decided to only respond to things I wanted to respond to, and just ignore the rest. Sometimes that felt ok and sometimes it didn't feel ok to just ignore being mistreated like that, but it was comforting to know my mom could send me some heinous text and I could wait the mandatory 24 hour hold time and then respond "I'm doing great, thanks for asking! How's the weather up there?" or some other similarly inane thing. It was pretty liberating! They didn't really know how to react to my non-reaction to her awfulness, if that makes sense. I wonder how your mom would react? I think it's great that you and your brother are strategizing communication forms that do the least damage to yourselves. Sometimes there's no answer when the person on the other end of the communication is pathologically horrible.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

Thanks for the catch up, Moglow. Nice to see you again. 

As already stated, this is very relatable. I just do think they are hard wired for this behavior. Changing goal posts, finding "something" to make an issue out of is so exhaustingly familiar. 
 
On an unrelated side note regarding the job, I also can relate. I think I started to recognize it around 10 years ago. It was no action directly toward me, but I started to see the way managers seemed infatuated with colleagues who were nearly 20 years younger when they completed routine tasks as I did so much more that they never acknowledged. As a scapegoat, it triggered several emotions.

Anyway, I think you handled the recent interactions very well. So, kudos to you on that. 
   

[moglow]

Hey Blueberry! I was unemployed for about a year, some 11-12 years ago now, and it was tough then. I don't have a problem with age myself, it really is just a number, but new/potential employers ... It's tough. I remember one short term job, overhearing the manager across the hall with his "well we're a young company and only interested in young vibrant people ..." He actually repeated it in a meeting later that week, and they decided I was no longer needed not long after. I let him know the message was received loud and clear, he offered apologies and even possibly extending the job "just this once" after I spoke up. Yeah no. You showed me who you are, I'll be fine elsewhere. Now, in my 60s? I couldn't even get an interview when I was applying, now I'm just floating along, will see what happens. Something will turn up when it's supposed to.

I'm at a loss with md these days, truly. She didn't even comment or respond when I threw out little tidbits, showed no interest. She mocks when I resort to the old standby grocery checkout lane conversation - brief, impersonal, non-committal. All the while complains that I don't keep in touch.

I've thought about it several times since, her absolute refusal to discuss or try to find any resolution between us. I don't want to dredge old ditches or childhood, but surely she had some reason behind treating me the way she did/does, the complete lack of interest or curiosity about me or my life?

When she said she didn't want and wouldn't be talking about any of it Ever - I felt like I'd been slapped. I told her it was important to me, that I needed to understand how we got that way in order to not let it happen in future. Nothing. She meant exactly what she said and my feelings do not matter. It hit harder than I've admitted, even if all the evidence has been in front of me all my life. My feelings and me as another human -her own chilf- don't matter to her.

But I'm supposed to "keep in touch." With that.

[moglow]

it was comforting to know my mom could send me some heinous text and I could wait the mandatory 24 hour hold time and then respond "I'm doing great, thanks for asking! How's the weather up there?" or some other similarly inane thing. 

I may use that! For a while I dead panned "always a joy to hear from you mother" then found other things to do, other places to be. Maybe I need to rethink my own stuff, refuse to be slapped by her anymore.

[1footouttadefog]

I hope your new chapter as retired or part retired will quickly morph into a great new chapter for you.  Hopefully a great work situation will come about to bring just the right balance.

Re your mother this feels familiar to what so experienced years ago with some in laws.  In my world the don't call any more would ha e likely been because of a perceived slight or because of the paranoid thoughts of the week.  Later they would be more clear headed and yet, not want to admit to what they were mentally accusing me of at that time.  They will never admit or embarrassed themselves a that way to they leave a wedge in place that we are supposed to eventually forgive and forget, or translation not live in the past regarding the texts yuck.  Caps are free however.  Light and fluffy and superficial  with caps on top. 

I agree with the sibling look at it as a healthy reconstruction of the communications style.  With caps of course.

I tent to treat texting more like emails and get called out so I get it a tiny but understand others don't use punctuation etc on a phone keyboard.   

[moglow]

A few months down the line now, and I told her flat out that I give up. I've tried countless topics of conversation, tried to build on/ask questions when she texts, everything fell flat. I'd get a "hope you're staying warm. Take care." text every few weeks, guess that's her idea of a relationship.

She'd asked me to keep her updated ongoing eye issues, so I obliged after the last injection. There were some complications and it was more painful than usual but my next appt was set further out so a good sign of progress. She asked no questions, no empathy or compassion, made sidebar vague comment then just repeated asking me to keep her updated. Um, I just did? I even sent her a pic of day-after trying for something. She didn't say a word about it, like that looks really uncomfortable, does it usually do that. Nothing.

I'd stewed and whined and griped about it, then something just kinda snapped after I sent that pic. I mean, you can't pull out a dab of compassion?? Pretend interest? She went right back to her "it would be nice to hear from you" texts a couple of weeks later, never did say anything about what I'd shared. 

Anyway, I'm tired of trying to spark some conversation, interest, curiosity. She's at about two weeks now of silence, maybe she took me at my word and will keep it that way. I just know I'm tired.
 

[Rebel13]

I get the exhaustion. It can be so gaslighty! I have been through these exact type of dynamics, where she says something, I try to do it, but it's not right somehow, rinse and repeat. All I can think is, their brains just don't work like ours. They say the same words but they don't mean what we mean when we use them. More and more I'm at the point of, just please yourself, Rebel, because no matter how hard you try, that type of person will never be satisfied.

[moglow]

@Rebel13, at this point it feels like she's just checking boxes: it's been x days so I need to make contact. First say this, then that, and throw an emoji at the end so it looks good. Literally just words strung together for appearances. The few times she asked questions she rarely followed up when I answer, at best it's "okay thanks for letting me know."

I kinda feel I've been the dense one, for it taking so long to get through to me. Lord knows none of this is new.

[NarcKiddo]

I'm very much in a checkbox phase with my mother. She will bang on about her stuff regardless of who telephoned whom and then at the end say 'And how are things with you?' I give her a bland, grey rock answer usually, but sometimes I may remind her that we have just been on a trip or something. She's never interested. I have had miscellaneous health crises over the last couple of years and my father usually remembers to ask after whatever it is. She will sometimes just get up and walk away when I am mid-sentence.

Although we know this is what we are going to get, it is very hard to get rid of that last kernel of hope. Maybe this time, now I am actually suffering with something, maybe now she will show a modicum of care. Nope. And it does hurt, no matter how much we promise ourselves we won't let it. I'm sorry you have to deal with this.

[walking on broken glass]

I am so sorry Moglow. This sounds exhausting. How funny would it be if you scheduled an auto message to be sent every two weeks, like the generic ones she sends: 'I hope you are doing well'. Box ticked!☑️

In all seriousness, you can try to match her energy (or lack thereof, as is the case here) and not put effort in communication. You know that nothing will ever please her and she will find reasons to complain. You might feel less 'cheated' if you do the bare minimum. Anything more than that feels like you are hitting a wall and it gets to you. None of this is easy or pleasant. Sending hugs

[xredshoesx]

performative parenting at its best (worst???)

thinking of you today my sister friend @moglow

[moglow]

Hey @xredshoesx 💕! Performative parenting about defines it, if not performative humanity in general.

Interesting enough, she text this morning - outside her usual cycle but I guess she was waiting for me. Yet another "I haven't heard from you hope you're okay"-ish message. Well no you've not heard from me, to what possible purpose? Later I responded, told her I was out on the porch with a cuppa tea, swear I can see the pollen falling (grasping I know, but maybe spark a teeny conversation). Her response, Enjoy that porch and this weather!!! didn't quite hit. Über superficial and bland, not inviting anything further that's for sure.

Thankfully I'd had about three quiet weeks since her last to settle my mind, find more acceptance. There's just nobody in there. 🤷🏻�♀️