Friend ignoring my boundary about my medical condition

[countrygirl]

Hi,

I wonder if there are those here who can relate to how I feel about my friend's refusal to ignore a boundary I have attempted to establish about my medical condition.

Just yesterday I was diagnosed with a serious, but not terminal, medical condition.  Last week, when I went to see the first doctor, who then sent me to a specialist, I told my friend what the condition was, but asked her not to talk about it anymore.  I said that I would tell her more after I'd seen the specialist, but that I wanted to spend the intervening days trying to relax and trying not to dwell on it.  I just wanted to kickback for a bit with my husband and with the friend I was going to see that weekend, and with a couple of other friends with whom I would be talking.  I wanted to talk about other things.

[countrygirl]

Oops!  Sorry!  I didn't mean to hit send!

At any rate, my friend would not back down.  She wanted to know what caused my condition.  I had asked the doctor this, and he said they didn't know.  This is the case with so many things, of course. 

Well, the very next time we talked, she started in on my condition again.  This was on Friday, and I really wanted that day to be peaceful and that the weekend be peaceful, because I knew I would start getting really nervous on Sunday, ahead of my Monday appointment.  I told her this, but she had more questions!   I said, "Please, you are my friend, and I don't want to speak harshly to you, but I don't want to talk about this."

She became angry, and practically shouted at me, "You're going to have to deal with it."  I replied, "I AM dealing with it.  I saw my doctor," and I'm seeing the specialist on Monday."

Then, after I saw the specialist, she wanted to know the gritty details about the condition. And she was doing that again this morning.  She even told me things she'd read on the internet, which I had specifically asked her not to do. Don't get me wrong, she has every right to do whatever research she wants, but I asked her not to tell me.  Of course, she ignored this. 

Again, I told her I did not want to hear the gory details, so to speak.  She then said she was afraid she would get it, and I told her she had none of the symptoms.  As you can imagine, her fear of developing it did NOT make me feel good. Oh, and she told me I shouldn't complain about the treatment, which is NO fun, because at least there was treatment.  I told her that I was very glad that there was treatment--even though there are no guarantees--but that this did NOT mean that I wasn't allowed to dislike the treatment, that I could BOTH appreciate that there is treatment,which I absolutely do, and still talk about the treatment and the downside of it. And it will be ongoing, it is far from a "one and done."  I may never be done.

At any rate, I can't believe her insensitivity.  I like other things about her, and can enjoy discussing other things with her, but she has total lack of empathy.

In contrast, the specialist and her staff are lovely.  I have had cold doctors, but this is not one of them. 

But, if any of you have any advice for what I should say to this friend, I would greatly appreciate hearing it. Several of my closest friends have been caring and supportive, but this one is a quandary.

[bloomie]

countrygirl - I hope it is okay, I merged your two messages for continuity!

First and most importantly, I am very sorry you are facing this diagnosis and all that surrounds it. Known and unknown. This has to be a lot to process and my heart goes out to you as I wish nothing but the best of outcomes for you.

It seems more important than ever to reduce stress and surround yourself with those who can show their support and still listen to your stated wishes about how/when/if you want to talk about this. The shouting and telling you you have to deal with it would be a ginormous red flag and would be so upsetting to experience!

Is it possible to do a fade for awhile and disengage with updates, info, and such?

[Catothecat]

I am so sorry to hear this, countrygirl.  Getting such a diagnosis can be depressing enough, but adding this friend and her insensitivity to the mix just adds to it and you don't need that since you have enough on your plate already.

I agree that disconnecting for a while might be a good approach.  She probably doesn't mean to be insensitive, she likely just wants to be important and find ways to get you to "listen to her."  I have a friend who has "caretaker syndrome" among other disordered traits, and she's always reliable for giving unwanted advice, even if you don't want it or ask for it. She has trouble dealing with her own issues so likes to focus on the issues of others, which she's convinced she can "handle" better than you. Her insensitivity can be stunning at times, but it comes from a disordered place so I try to dismiss it and, if necessary, disconnect for a few weeks or months because I don't want to react with anger as I know she doesn't realize how she comes across.

I don't need to tell you that taking care of yourself is more important than giving her the attention she wants.  She might sputter on for a bit longer until she realizes that you're saying what you mean and you're not just giving her an invitation to keep trying (which can be how she interprets it since she's reacting the only way she knows how). 

I am hoping and praying for the best for you, countrygirl.  Please don't allow this friend to get you down!

[countrygirl]

Hi Bloomie and Catothecat,

Thank you so much for your replies.   And thank you for merging the two emails, Bloomie.

First, I met with my new doctor, and liked her very much and was impressed with her knowledge.   I think she has a good approach, and  I am hopeful that even if there isn't a cure, this will be manageable.   

Unfortunately, this friend is not manageable.  She doesn't respect my boundaries at all.  I did talk to her again.  She both emailed and left a phone message on the day of my appointment, so I called her back.  Quelle surprise:  More of the same. And, in fact, it emerged that she was asking so many questions because SHE was afraid she would get my condition! Based upon nothing but fear.  I found myself reassuring HER.  I said that it was unlikely she would get it, since she had no symptoms. 

Almost always, I end up "giving in," although I have gotten better over the past few years.  I do think, as Catothecat theorized, that my friend is not aware of what she is doing. (I like the use of "disordered place" in regard to your friend, and it certainly applies to mine too.O One thing my therapist has helped me recognize over the years is that people can be a lot less self-aware than one would suppose, even well-educated people.  Some people just don't want to see themselves.  It's like when Starling asks Lecter if he's ever turned his gimlet eye on himself and, if so, what did he see?  Except the people the person I'm thinking about isn't good at seeing other people, unlike Lecter! 

I do think taking a break from her is a good idea, as you both advise.  I have already told her that I won't be emailing much. I need energy for healing; I need peace; and I need time for the things I want to do.

To end on a positive note, I really do like this doctor!  She's so smart, had a fellowship at Mayo.  And the staff is very nice too. For me, that makes a difference.  Of course I would choose knowledge over warmth when it comes to a doctor, but how wonderful is it to have one in both?  People DO make such a difference in one's life.  And even the Uber driver who took us home was nice.  Turns out he has the same condition!  And he was encouraging.  And of course I am so glad to receive support and advice from the kind people here. I am sending you heartfelt thanks! 

[moglow]

Hey there! Allow me to introduce Boundaries 101: Your boundary is yours, not hers. You decide your boundaries, you decide how to enforce them when needed.

You don't have to discuss or explain yourself to her. Tell her you don't want to discuss *this* (maybe not right now, maybe not ever - you decide). Period. You can nicely, politely and firmly refuse to talk about it, unless/until YOU decide otherwise. (Just know that if/when you do talk about it later, she'll assume it's okay now, so I'd proceed with caution.)

But she brings it up yet again? You don't have yet another discussion about whatever it is you don't want to talk about with her. You just don't talk about it. You can change the subject. You can go to the restroom or outside for fresh air. You can end the call or get in your car and go home. You don't have to talk about it and you don't have to explain why. 

[countrygirl]

Hi Moglow,

Thank you for your advice.  I heard from this friend again. She told me that she wanted to know the details because she was afraid she would get this condition!  Not that she has ANY symptoms.  I just can't believe people.  When she did this, I pictured a visitor to a hospital bed saying to the patient, "I am afraid I will get this."  In other words, the patient is supposed to reassure the visitor, to take away their anxiety.  Not to mention,  who wants to hear about their condition:  "I'm afraid I might get this." Meaning that it might happen to them; not that they might "catch" it. Well, research it on the internet, don't look to me to comfort you about something you don't even have.  She was so unfeeling, just so clinical. 

At any rate, I did tell her that I wasn't going to discuss it, because you are right:  You can't give such a person an inch.  At this point, I can not get up and go outside or drive my car.  I only talk to this friend on the phone, but I can certainly end the call. 

[moglow]

That steams me, when someone persists no matter what you say. Just a complete lack of respect and empathy! You're trying to deal with your own, maybe you don't have bandwidth or airspace to hold her hand over her imaginings. It's not about her!

So yes, you simply don't discuss - don't mention, don't answer her questions about your personal struggle. There's a plan and you're working with doctors - "and btw have you noticed the amazing wildlife out this year?! Just this week I saw ..." Or you need to get off the phone real quick. Or the dog's on fire again. Or whoops, signal must have dropped. You just never pick that thread back up with her.

Case in point: for the past several months I've been having very concerning vision issues, got sent quick sharp to a retinal specialist during a fairly routine eye exam. I'll not go into all the details but the only treatment available right now involves needles and my eyeball. I made the mistake of telling my pd mother that I'm having these very concerning issues. She kind of shrugged it off and responded as if an eyelash was irritating me (normal for her unfortunately so the bar was pretty low to begin with). 

A couple days later she text to ask for specifics, because she's just found out she has cataracts and "maybe knowing more about my situation will help her decide what to do..." Um. Apples, oranges,  Chicken Little, and the sky's not falling. I know nothing about cataracts or options (not entirely true but for sake of that conversation), and you should discuss with your doctors if you need more information. 

So she asked specifically what mine entails - and I told her. Spelled it all out, there's no quick fix or surgery or pill. It may be progressive or it may stabilize for long periods of time, we don't know. She all but outright called me a liar, *laughed* and said "that's ridiculous" and "they don't do shots for that!" THEN proceeded to call or text every day until I told her this is a long term ongoing issue, there's no new news or changes every a day and I'm not going to keep going over it. I'm not going to live like that - it's nervewracking enough as it is. Now she's mad because I won't let my fears be about her or her stuff. And she's done nothing about her supposed cataracts but finds texting amazingly easy.

So yeah. Talk about any and everything else but live your boundaries and show her you meant what you said!

[countrygirl]

Dear Moglow,

I know exactly what you are talking about, because I have the same issue!  Talk about synchronicity!  (By the way, the reason I'm not mobile now has nothing to do with this, just so you don't think I'm sort of housebound because of the retina issue.)

I had my first injection on Monday. Forgive me for giving you unnecessary info if you've already had your first injection.  I reread your post, but couldn't tell. At any rate, my retina specialist said to me, "There is a treatment. It involves an injection in the eye.  But it's not as bad as it sounds."  To tell you the truth, it reaches the point where you might as well laugh as cry, but she was right. She told me she'd just given another patient her first injection, and she was fine with it.  She then proceeded to talk me through each step, and once the eye was numbed, I did not feel the injection. Which is not to say that the whole thing isn't horrible.

Your mom is, unfortunately, another self-obsessed individual, or at least in this case.  You tell her this very upsetting information and she calls you a liar. So much for maternal concern. If she admits you're telling the truth, about "the needle in the eye" treatment, and about how there are no guarantees, then you clearly deserve sympathy and empathy, when SHE feels only SHE is the one with the bad issue.  Only SHE has problems. 

I am so sorry that you got this response. My mother would probably have said that I "enjoyed poor health."  She hated it when I was ill, and I was hardly ever ill when I was kid, but even a sore throat twas too much for her to deal with, because she knew she was supposed to care and she didn't.   

The uncertainty is horrible, of course.  It is a lot. So you will REALLY understand why I was gobsmacked that my friend made it about herself. How did she even do that?!  In a way, it is impressive, eh?  A true master. As is your mom, of course, and unfortunately.  Right when you need some warmth and support you get the opposite.

At least we both know what is going on with our "loved ones." We see them clearly.  Or as cleary as we can.  Ha, ha. 

Well,Moglow, this has really been synchronicity.  Please feel free to write anytime you'd like to discuss the retina issue. I would also be fine with giving you my email address. (Although you'd have to tell me how to do this here.  I once had someone write me, but don't know how to do it.) Or if you want to write here that works too.  Or if you don't want to write about it at all. Just know that I would welcome an exchange, should you, now, or in the future. 

I have an eye pad which I bought on Amazon.  You can heat it in the microwave, and then rest with it for seven or ten minutes.  It doesn't solve the problem, but I find it relaxing, and my eyes feel better afterwards.

Oh, my doctor had me get PreserVision AredsS2 vitamins, which I also purchased on Amazon.  I figure they can't hurt!  And she seems to be a very accomplished doctor, who held a fellowship at Mayo. So I trust her recommendations.   

I'm also eating more salmon, which I never liked, but I've enjoyed recently, because I found a good fish counter.  Martha Stewart has a good, easy recipe.  Not that I'm a follower, I hasten to say! 

So, take care, take heart and thank you so much for responding to my post.  You have responded to me in the past, and I've always appreciated it.   

[moglow]

😳 So you feel my pain?! It's scary and painful and nervewracking and all of the things! And for people to blow it off like "oh but what about my ..." Ma'am. Find a titch of empathy and compassion or at least make vision jokes to release the tension! They just can't see (pardon the pun) beyond themselves.

I did text her that s morning about yesterday's appt, btw - for whatever reason that one was painful, sharp increase in eye pressure triggered immediate headache and took most of the day to recover from. Tough day and I was wiped out. She made a couple of strange choppy comments, how my brother had filled her in already then brought up her cataracts again, and "how about keeping me posted. Take care." And she was done, just like that. But but but I *just did* and you barely acknowledged, certainly offered no comfort or empathy. 
***
But back to me! I'm about 10 months into this short list of diagnoses - some injections have been more painful than others. For a few visits they used a numbing gel I really liked, but apparently doc isn't pleased at all side effects so he's discontinued use. I did have a couple of tough recoveries with bleeding inside the eye. Freaky to see but thankfully resolved without other complications. It's def not a great time but luckily eyes heal fairly quickly for the most part. 

If I hear about her cataracts one.more.time, while she minimizes my issues and refuses to do the very thing to correct her own ...!! 

[countrygirl]

Hi Moglow!

I'm sorry you have had some truly painful and nervous-making experiences with your eye.  I would bet I'll have plenty of my own experiences, too. The bleeding must have been a real trip. I had dye injected, and when they did some test afterwards, I wondered what the little wiggly filaments were which I saw reflected back.  I am  normally observant and can make connections, but was in sort of a daze by then. There had already been an hour's worth of tests, and I wasn't clicking as quickly as I might have been. Later, I realized I was seeing the little dyed blood vessels.

Once my mother became so exasperated with an injury I had that she actually said,  "Can't you heal yourself?!" Haha!  Ah, if only I could... I know her comment sounds completely bonkers, but it was totally because she didn't want to be bothered.  Just had to share that one with you! That was one of the top twenty hits.

Oh, the irony of your mother telling you to "keep her posted" while you are doing just that. And you ARE getting treatment while she is not. I am so sorry that she isn't really there for you when you reach out.   

I don't understand why some people find it so hard feel and/or express empathy.  I mean, I know the psychological reasons, but I still don't get it. People are just too complicated. The good thing is that your heart is still open enough that you try with her. I hope you won't be offended if I say that she does seem to care, but in a limited way. When it comes to moms, I guess it's like with retinas, we have to play with what we've been given. Of course we COULD just heal ourselves, but where's the fun in that? 

I must say that I really like my doctor, so far. She is a nice combination of confident and caring.  She's a young woman, but she kept calling me "hon," which is something I haven't really heard used that much.  Reminds me of a waitress in a diner. And when I see her I wish I were in a diner and she was serving up some curly fries instead of a needle in the eye! 

   

[moglow]

Yep the dye imaging was wild! Once a needle nicked a blood vessel - I saw this big dark blotch for hours and finally realized it was actually the bleeding inside my eye. There've been a couple of times while I'm waiting to check out and make next appt, I can see waves of medication swirling around. And closing my eyes doesn't make that go away. It's fascinating and nauseating all at the same time. It's quite a ride and a lot to take in. I'm trying to keep my hands and feet inside the vehicle so to speak but it's sure testing me so far. Ask any questions, I know I sure do!

[countrygirl]

Hi Moglow,

I had that blotch too. It faded over time as it dissolved. But, you know, as much as I like my doctor, she did not tell me anything about what to expect.  I will certainly have questions for next time, and thank you for urging me to do that!

Yes, indeed it is a wild ride, and I admire you for keeping your hands and feet inside the vehicle.  I will endeavor to do the same. In a way, my main concern is managing to do that, which is why I didn't want that friend upsetting me with her rude and invasive questions. 

All the best for you, Moglow.  Sending good energy your way.   

[moglow]

It's a LOT, I know. Random speculation feeds the fears, doesn't help - everyone and every experience isn't the same. My own experience hasn't been the same each time - Some were easy peasy, a couple not so much. I'm trying to just roll with it and focus elsewhere in between. I'm blessed with a brother who just listens when I want to talk about it, asks genuine questions to help me reset or offload. 

That friend of yours? Unless absolutely necessary, I wouldn't discuss with her. She can take her fears elsewhere, not feed yours. We could talk about other things or not at all.

[countrygirl]

I was thinking your brother sounded nice.  So glad he's there for you, and is skilled in communication.

Yes, my friend was feeding my fear.  That's it, exactly!

The limits of those with personality disorders are really underlined by how they respond to another's pain.   

[Lookin 2 B Free]

Good luck to both of you! 

Just hopping on to say I had this same situation with a friend and the "broken record" technique worked well.  I said my boundary of "I don't want to discuss this at all" a few times, which was then not respected.  After that I just said "I'm doing what the doctor's are suggesting."  No matter what she asked I'd just reply with that.  No info on when appts were or updates on my condition. She knew I didn't want to discuss it and after replying with that 3 or 4 times in a row to whatever she asked, she'd stop.  Yes, she wasfrustrated, but that's on her.  Eventually I realized that I didn't want to continue the friendship the way it was evolving, and it ended.

[countrygirl]

Hi Lookin 2 B Free,

Thanks for your good wishes, they are much appreciated!  And all best wishes for you!

Funny that in a post where I complained about my nosy friend refusing to back off about my condition, I ended up discovering that MoGlow has the same condition.  That was synchronicity!  Opening up to MoGlow was helpful.   

Your "broken record" technique sounds good.  And it's timely for me to hear that you weren't interested in continuing the friendship. Earlier today, a friend asked if I would be upset if this friendship ended.  I said that I would miss my friend, but that I wouldn't be that upset, for various reasons but certainly including the fact that she made my illness about her!  I am working on a project which is so important to me, and I used up precious energy on dealing with her.

Thank you for sharing your experience.  I will hear your voice and MoGlow's voice when I next deal with this person.