Lack of empathy during pain

[countrygirl]

Hi,

A couple of weeks ago, my husband "gifted" me with a respiratory virus, which has kept me in its grips.  I have a very bad back, and all of the coughing has not helped.  Yesterday morning, I had sharp pain between my ribs. It didn't recur until last night, when I was speaking with a difficult friend.

While we were talking, the pain startled me.  It comes out of nowhere, and really hurt, so I cried out.  I have chronic pain  from my back, and normally don't cry out, because I am accustomed to it.  I have a lot of endurance and resilience, but this pain was new and unexpected.  I knew it was what I'd first felt in the morning.  It hit me maybe three more times during the conversation.  Well, this friend is not the warmest person you'll ever meet, and all she could think about was how MY pain was disconcerting her.  She told me to take a pain pill, and I told her I did not need one, that I knew this pain would pass.

Then she became angry that I wouldn't take a pill, and she started describing the noises I had made.  She said I had "squealed."  I said that I didn't like being compared to a pig.  Then she said I "screeched," and I said that I wasn't an owl, either.  Then she said that I "shrieked."  I said that I had cried out.  But she said that wasn't descriptive enough!  That she was trying to describe this sound and it had been "thin."  Can you believe this?  She knew I was sick from the virus, plus have another problem which I wrote about here and that the coughing was hurting my already horrible back.  But she wants to describe the noises I'm making!?  I got off the phone quickly after that.

The irony is that earlier in the conversation, she had described what she'd said to her landlady's boyfriend when the landlady came home from the hospital.  She told him to tell the landlady just to let her know if she needed her to do anything for her, or if he needed her to do anything for him.   Then she gets on the phone with her friend, and treats me like this! Of course, she liked portraying herself to these people as being Florence Nightingale, but she didn't really do anything.  She was feeding the landlady's cats, but told me she wouldn't scoop out the litter box or clean up any of the messes the cats made, including spilled kibble.  So she offered to help the boyfriend, but she didn't even do that for him, and he is quite a bit older than she and in remission from a serious cancer.

I thought about saying something else to her, but last night I already told her I didn't appreciate having my pain noises compared to those of a  piglet.(Not that I dislike piglets!)  And I did get off the phone with her.  I can't change her.  This is who she is.  It's just very depressing.  As another friend said, "She can be warm and nice at times, but not when it disrupts her life the least little bit."

At any rate, as long as I remain friends  with her, this is what I will receive from her. It is sad, because we could be really good friends, and I used to think we were, but she had me fooled.  I wish I could stop seeing relationships for what they could have been and just accept them as they are.

[Rebel13]

I wish I could stop seeing relationships for what they could have been and just accept them as they are.

Oh my gosh me too! It's very hard. I think I have made a little bit of progress with acceptance and, as a result, changing my behavior lately, and that feels good. What would more acceptance look like for you?

[Catothecat]

I think your other friend hit the nail on the head when she said, "she can be warm and nice at times, but not when it disrupts her life the least little bit."

Friends with this behavior seem to violate some unwritten rule about friendship, which is why we have trouble reconciling our confused feelings when dealing with a friend like this. But then I try to remember that such people are simply giving me their version of friendship.  It's disappointing to me, but they see nothing wrong in what they do. I've had to establish boundaries, diminish interactions, treat them the way they treat me, and while I've lessened the hurt they cause by their insensitivity or insincerity, I've never become comfortable in doing what I do.  I still want things to be better, want them to be better friends. I suspect they have it in them, and have been trained by life experiences or upbringing to act the way they do, but on the other hand I wonder if I'm wrong and they really don't have it "in them."  I know they are who they are, but I really don't want to believe it! 

[countrygirl]

Hi Rebel13 and Catothecat,

Thank you for your replies.  I am sorry that you too have faced dealing with friends similar to this, but I guess most people do.  My friend who said that this friend can be warm and nice sometimes, but not when it disrupts her life the least little bit is much more cautious about forming friendships than I am. Sometimes I ignore clear red flags, as was the case with this friend. So, even early on, if I like someone, I abandon good sense!  (Not always, but too often.)   

For me, Rebel13, acceptance of who this friend is would be not expecting her to behave like a dependable friend.  That is it in a nutshell. Really, to have no expectations at all.  But when she is rude to me, as she was the other night, I will defend myself. In other words, acceptance means that I accept we don't have much of a friendship.

Catothecat, I too seem to think that people will change.that their better selves will emerge.  But, so far, this has not happened.  Instead, I too have had to make all sorts of adjustments in order to deal with them, and I'm tired of twisting myself into a pretzel knot just so the friendship will work.  Like you, I know who these people are, but I don't want to believe it either.  What I find so jarring about this particular friend is that we can have meaningful conversations, but then she can suddenly flip and behave as she did the other night.  With all of these people, I keep coming back to the central question:  When does the bad outweigh the good?  With this person, I no longer expect much at all, which is sad. 

The other day, I was talking with another friend who told me that she was an introvert and didn't need people.  She said she liked people, but did not need them.  Yet she has told me how much talking with me means to her, etc.  However, I notice that I am invariably the one to initiate, and I'm growing tired of that.  It's not that she is a bad person, nor a rude person, but we are just too different. 

Some years ago, I was fortunate enough to live in a small university town where I had a number of good friends, of various ages. I really treasured that experience and was devastated when we had to move, because of my husband's job.  Since then, I have never had that experience again.  There are some people with whom I get along better than others, but I have not regained that experience of knowing a group of considerate and intelligent friends. 

[Catothecat]

One thing I've noticed (like how could I not?!) as I've gotten older is that so many of my friends drifted away into their own lives due to family issues, personal issues, various issues we didn't have when we were younger, and the fallout has been their remaining drifted away.  They seem to have become more narcissistic in their interactions, with emphasis on their lives but limited or no interest in mine.  They've become so self-focused they no longer seem to know how to effectively focus on others.  I wonder if it's a type of burn-out.  They don't have the psychological or emotional energy to deal with more than anything they're already dealing with in their personal lives.  The result is, they drift away because they want limited engagement, or they keep interactions at a level they can manage.  I actually had a friend tell me that she didn't want to hear about other's problems because she had enough problems of her own!  Took me awhile but I finally noticed that she actually stops listening when I make the mistake of crossing her boundaries. 

The sad thing is, I have to react to their behaviors and the most common reaction is to drift away myself.  I can't keep standing by waiting for them.  I can't keep feeling foolish for accepting one-way-street friendships.  I can't keep being there when they need me while they're never there for me.  I could, I suppose, and for a long time I did, but I got burned out myself.  I often feel guilty, but I'm not willing to be abused.  If someone shows me they've changed, that's different.  But so far, none of them have changed.  If anything, they're getting worse!

So I understand all too well your desire to have better friendships, countrygirl.  I wish things were different, but when they're not, they're not.  It's especially hard when you review the past and remember how great a close coterie of friends can be.  And establishing new friendships as you get older can be extremely difficult.  I wish I knew the answer.

[walking on broken glass]

What I find so jarring about this particular friend is that we can have meaningful conversations, but then she can suddenly flip and behave as she did the other night.  With all of these people, I keep coming back to the central question:  When does the bad outweigh the good?

Such a good question and so difficult to answer, partly, I think, because the answer tends to change from time to time. It really depends on how bad their behaviour is, when they exhibit bad behaviour, and what our limits and our tolerance look like at the time. I had to distance myself for a while from a friend who was being really competitive and antagonistic with me, even though we had good times and she could be fun, because it was a time in her life when she was really insecure and her behaviour was more pronounced and I was myself in a bad place with low self esteem (I guess that made me an easy target). I put boundaries in place, avoided talking about certain things and our friendship was very much diluted but did survive. I am now more regularly in touch with her but I know there are limits in our relationship and I do stop myself from opening up more than it is safe. These are not ideal friendships but I have found that I do value them for what they can give me.

What I am trying to say is that with your friend, countrygirl, there might need be a trial and error phase to gauge the level of friendship and contact you are comfortable with, and even that might change from time to time.

One thing I've noticed (like how could I not?!) as I've gotten older is that so many of my friends drifted away into their own lives due to family issues, personal issues, various issues we didn't have when we were younger, and the fallout has been their remaining drifted away.  They seem to have become more narcissistic in their interactions, with emphasis on their lives but limited or no interest in mine. 

I find this is true for many of my friends too, catothecat. I have also seen it happen more often with friends who have had kids and their priorities shifted. Understandable to a great extent but also rather sad.
I am the kind of friend who is always there for my friends. Even when I am going through a really difficult time, I always maintain the capacity to listen and engage. I sometimes wonder if I am like this because of my upbringing and my conditioning from childhood to cater to other people's needs. I am sure this is partly true. But does this mean that my friends' behaviour is the 'normal' one and I should be the one to adjust my expectations? But at the same time it does come naturally to me and it is a trait I am actually proud of so why should I try to tone it down and change it? I have learned to walk away when a relationship is consistently lopsided and when I feel I am taken advantage of. But with good friends who do not always respond the way I want them to, I am trying to accept that my capacity to listen and be present is a bit higher than theirs but they still love and care about me.

[countrygirl]

Hi Catothecat and walking on broken glass,

I read your posts but didn't have enough energy to answer, because once I finally kicked that virus, I had such fatigue that I was starting to wonder if it would be chronic.   

Catothecat, I agree with what you say about one-way friendships.  I used to have such high tolerance, and it is still probably higher than "average," but those days are nearly gone.  And you are correct, walking on broken glass, one has to evaluate and re-evaluate sometimes before knowing what to do.  I guess it's a matter of "you know when you know."  In reference to when does the bad outweigh the good.

Now, I am also dealing with someone who popped up again, a long distance friend.  As much as I always liked her, what I did not like was her tendency to blow hot and cold.  At first, it seemed that this had changed.  But recently I have been forced to realize that the leopard has not changed her spots!  And I started to see that no matter how much this friend claimed to love our phone calls, that I was always the one who was proposing a chat. 

Here, I started to tell you a specific story about this, but the details are boring.  At  any rate, she told me to let her know when I had recovered enough from the virus to talk.  So I  told her, and not only did she not call, she stopped writing! 

Well, that is it for me.  I am willing to do a lot of work in a friendship, but not to carry the whole thing.  Also, I forgot to mention that at one point this woman told me that she didn't need people, that she liked them, but she didn't need them.  However, she haas complained to me about a long time friend who has been neglecting her.  Of course I have no idea what caused the breach, but if she treats this friend the way she treats me, I think the friend is probably fed up.  I saw them together once, and it was clear to me that this friend was nuts about our mutual friend, and in a way that she seemed like the supplicant.  My bet is that even she couldn't take it anymore.

I know this is a sort of prejudice-in-reverse, and that it is not true for all beautiful people, but I think my friend's looks have kept her from having to try hard.  This has been true not only in the romantic field, but in other ways too.  Study after study has shown that good looking people do have an advantage, at first, at any rate.  Whereas the longtime friend and I are average looking people, who are accustomed to having to try hard.  Just an aside, but I do think it explains this woman's behavior, to some extent.