Is this intrusive or ok?

[Dinah-sore]

Hi, I am so sorry to pop back in and take up your time and resources, when I should totally know better by now.

I think I just need support.

My BPD/NOD mom has been difficult lately. We rarely see her, and I have twice recently. The first time was with my kids, and it was not that bad and yet she makes comments about my adult daughters' appearance that are still bugging my kids. She tells them what they need to change to be prettier in her eyes. And the comments stick and cause insecurity and anger.

Then I saw her a few days ago and it was nice, in that nothing bad happened.

But yesterday she told me she emailed my new church again. She doesn't go there, I have only been once, it is complicated and I want to take my time getting to know them.

She emailed them a few months ago to ask information about an event. My mom kinda doesn't leave her house except rarely and with lots of fear. I told her I don't feel comfortable with her emailing them. She was upset but I said that I would like to get to know the people at my church before she does. And asked her not to do that again. This was a couple months ago.

She isn't even this denomination!!!!

Then she watched a teaching of theirs online and didn't like something they taught so she emailed them on Friday. Asking them why they would teach that.

It is a major denominational difference. She told me this and I was speechless. So she snapped and me and said "I have a right to question them." I said "you have a right to have that question, and you have the right to disagree with their opinions. But I told you I don't feel comfortable with you emailing them."

Then she got really angry and yelled at me. I said, again, I don't want you talking to people I haven't met yet. I want to take my time and get to know them on my own.

She then started crying and said she can't do this anymore and can't talk to me about it, that I don't understand how I upset her, and how she gets really upset when she upsets me. And got off the phone.

We didn't talk all day yesterday. Then she called me last night and apologized, very general "I am sorry I overstepped," I said thank you, and didn't want to rehash it or make her feel bad, so I changed the subject. She brought it right back to an argument, that she doesn't understand why I feel this way, does she embarrass me? Why am I ashamed? Am I hiding something? I didn't Jade (I don't think, I just said "I have complicated feelings and I want to take things slow getting to know them on my own. She was so angry. I said you are so angry at me, and she said "no I'm not! Well yes I am!! What is wrong with me emailing them? I didn't want to bother you with a theological question." I replied, "but you still brought it up with me." She didn't even ask MY opinion. She emailed to argue with them. She said she was very cordial, but my mom has been kicked out of bars and restaurants and has a history of fighting with people. This is a place I wanted to go to and I haven't even met anyone yet. I usually listen online and have only attended once in the last few months. I barely told my husband about it, because I wanted to take it slow.

Then she argued with me again, I didn't argue, but I didn't give in. She wanted an explanation that she would accept and I didn't give one. She still won't talk to me today. She is so mad.

I accepted her apology and didn't say anything mean to her, I told her I don't feel comfortable with her emailing them, the ONLY thing I can think of that would please her would be to maybe say, "I am sorry I made you feel bad mom, you can email them whenever you want." And I mean she literally can, it just makes me uncomfortable.

She also said she didn't like it when she told me she did it and I was quiet. She said she had to ask me if I was still there, I mean I was just shocked that she would do that. I said what is wrong with me being quiet? She said it was rude. I said I was just shocked and thinking of how to respond. She said it was not a good thing to do to her.

She has given me the silent treatment all day. I have resisted the urge to text her and try to smooth it out because I don't feel like I am fighting with her. I feel like I told her my preference, and accepted an apology for overstepping, and she is just still mad. And I can't fix it. She needs to just deal with her feelings and decide if she wants to respect my feelings.

Her feelings are always the center. My gosh she freaking centered herself in my new church and I haven't even talked to the pastors myself and she has talked to them twice, and now about their doctrinal beliefs she disagree with as if they owe her an answer and have to live up to her opinions.

She acted like she had to email them. I said, you could have asked me, or you could have asked Google, or you could have called another church in that denomination and asked them. But this was a place I chose for me. Not anyone else. In fact I know my husband doesn't agree with their teachings but even he isn't being weird about it. And we have problems in our marriage that he could use this against me.

Idk, I have decided to just act like this was her problem. And I was upset at what I was upset at, and I don't want it to happen again and I said that. And she needs to just deal with her feelings on her own. I wasn't mean at all.

And my kids, watching her nit-pick their looks omg takes me back to the constant scrutiny about my appearance. All the little digs she used to give me every time we saw each other. She is still doing that to me. Like we just are not pretty enough for her. And if I could show you a picture of her at my age, omg I would think she could have jealousy. She looked way way worse than me when she was my age. I don't understand why her standards are so impossible.

So I have decided I will stop talking to her about everything, I can't have her use information to use to ruin my life (that sounds dramatic, but it feels like what she does). Like half of me doesn't want to go to that church anymore because it feels like she ruined it, the good. But if I don't go then she may think she won because of her doctrinal complaints. Ugh. It feels like she so often puts me in no win situations. Where she can feel like she wins whichever choice I make. I always feel like I am losing, or wonder, "am I just doing this cuz of what my mom said?"

And I am angry at her, for doing this, for being mad at me for having feelings, for apologizing but then making it worth nothing because she fought me again over it, and said things to make it seem like I am doing something secretive or shameful if I don't want her a part of it. And then crying and trying to make me feel bad for her so she can presumably get her way and trample my boundaries.

I know I can't tell her what to do. I didn't tell her she can't email them, but I did tell her it made me feel uncomfortable. I don't think that is unreasonable. It feels intrusive, engulfing, and even embarrassing. Is that bad of me to feel that?

I am so sorry. I know this isn't the biggest deal. I mean she didn't rage at me as bad as she has before. I think I am just sad because her actions took some joy away from something I was hoping to become a beautiful refuge for me, and it feels like she pooped in it for me. Sorry if that is too gross.

[Dinah-sore]

I think I forgot to write that I have been attending their services online for about a year, I only attended once to see if I liked the vibe I. Real life before I told my husband. So I do feel a connection with the church, even though I haven't built relationships yet. That is why it was complicated, it was a big step to do this on my own and then tell my husband. I didn't want to risk upsetting him for a place I don't end up liking anyway. But I do like it. And now that my mom started talking to them about their beliefs, I don't know how I feel. I do feel sad though. And I feel like she thinks I hurt her.

I don't even talk to her about it, their teachings, my beliefs, what things are dear to my heart because I feel protective of those things. She just was acting worried about me and so I told her that the kids and I are doing well, and I am really enjoying my new church. It feels like she is obsessed with me. That sounds so mean, but it feels like how I imagine that would feel.

[NarcKiddo]

So I have decided I will stop talking to her about everything, I can't have her use information to use to ruin my life (that sounds dramatic, but it feels like what she does). Like half of me doesn't want to go to that church anymore because it feels like she ruined it, the good.

All of this resonates hugely. I have exactly the same feelings around telling my mother anything. She uses all information, good and bad, to somehow spoil things for me. Of course she would deny doing any such thing or say she was doing it for my own good. So maybe my reactions are all on me, but I control it by doing exactly what you say you have decided: I tell her nothing. I grey rock and then grey rock some more. As far as she is concerned my life is boring, I go nowhere that would interest her, if I choose to tell her about a particular interest I am very vague on details.

[Liketheducks]

Grey ROCK like it is your job.  Anytime I let my mom into my head...she uses it against me somehow.

I don't think your reaction is unreasonable....but asking her and expecting her to do something seems unreasonable to me.   I think you have to decide your part of the boundary and act on that, rather than expect anything from her.   She's already proven what she'll do.   Like IF she emails my church or inserts herself in my space....I'll change churches or spaces.  It feels like she's doing what my mom does.   Using your social sphere to create her own. 

[FromTheSwamp]

Yes, this is intrusive.  She inserted herself into part of your life that she's not a part of, and isn't her business.  It reminds me of a coworker whose mom would call the owners at the business and complain about various things about his employment.  It was not only overstepping on her part, but it put him in an awkward position at work. 

You can't control her, of course, as others have said.  Gray rocking is the way to go.  Tell her as little about your life as possible.  Talk about the weather or other things that don't directly involve your life when you do have contact with her.  Try to lower your contact, especially around your daughters. You don't owe her personal information at all - she blew up that part of your relationship. 

One of my therapists said to me, when I was struggling with holding back information from my parents (I've always been someone who told the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth) - You don't owe the truth to your abusers. 

[moglow]

Dinah, as my country boy brother says: She can't get your goat if she doesn't know where it is. Any and everything you share about your life, anything that's meaningful (or hurtful) can and will be deployed at her whim. She justifies it out of supposed concern and she's your mother, but she's still inserting herself where she doesn't belong - because you gave her the key.

I lived it most of my life. I got tired of hearing my most personal business being discussed as if fodder for a gossip mill andi stopped sharing. Things kept coming back to me in the strangest ways, through people I had no connection other than her - things I'd have never shared with those people. To set my brain at rest, I went so far as fully inventing a private issue that I shared with her only, asked her to please keep it between us. Within a few weeks, someone came to me and expressed sympathy - someone I'd not only not seen or spoken with in years but someone I knew she was close to. They likely even got my phone number from her to do it! Direct conduit.

I'm just saying: Guard your life. If you don't want her in something, don't include her in any way - don't mention, ask, or show any interest if she brings it up. So she emailed that church? Not your stuff, honestly. You don't need her permission *for anything*. Her opinions of your, your children or anyone else's bodies, homes, money, education, job etc etc? Not. Your. Stuff. Don't respond or comment in any way - change the subject or end the conversation. She can take her petty bs elsewhere and be mad with it.

Move your goat. Let her be mad. Refuse to discuss any of that any further with her, apologies or not. Don't entertain her excuses or justifications. She'll just have to adapt.

[walking on broken glass]

Dinah, I am sorry your mother is interfering with your life and is causing you pain. What everyone has said is spot on. Your mum is malevolent; she won't be happy when you are happy. In fact, she will do everything in her power to bring you down. Don't give her any info because it's ammunition. Protect yourself and your children.

[bloomie]

Move your goat.

Might be my new favorite Out of the FOG quote!

Dinah-sore - glad you shared this. Please don't apologize for popping in and gaining support when you need it!

What is safe to discuss with your mother:
anything that is beige, boring, neutral, benign

What is not safe to discuss with your mother:
anything else

I would encourage you to not allow someone who does not seem to have ears to hear and eyes to see the damage she is doing to her daughter and granddaughters to be a catalyst to you giving up on a faith community you are exploring as a potentially loving and supportive space. This is your decision and your spiritual journey.

Something to consider... your mother introducing herself, so to speak, to your potential new pastor(s) in this combative, questioning way (no matter how 'nicely' she says she framed things) from a perfect stranger who has no personal association with the church, offers them important context to how best to support and care for you.

[Call Me Cordelia]

 

You are not responsible for your mother's actions, and they do not reflect who you are and your worthiness to belong to any church! I spent so many years of my life hiding in shame over crap my parents had done, believing I was tarred with their brush. I was sad when I read you were thinking of leaving something you've already invested a year in because of your mother's poor boundaries. She doesn't deserve that kind of power over you.

[Sojourner17]

You are not responsible for your mother's actions, and they do not reflect who you are and your worthiness to belong to any church! I spent so many years of my life hiding in shame over crap my parents had done, believing I was tarred with their brush. I was sad when I read you were thinking of leaving something you've already invested a year in because of your mother's poor boundaries. She doesn't deserve that kind of power over you.

This reminds me of Ezekiel Chapter 18 where he writes about God dealing justly with individuals.  If you are doing wrong you are dealt with, if your children see you doing wrong and choose to do right He deals with the child in a different way and vice versa.  Each one is dealt with based on their own merit or lack thereof.