What is the difference between Narcissism and BPD

[Invisiblewoman]

Also, what does having comorbid NPD/BPD look like? Does it exist?

How do clinicians tell the difference? Don't both NPD and BPD have abandonment issues?

I have at least 3 family members who have engaged in extreme reactions to perceived abandonment, and splitting you into being all good or all bad. One had self harm and suicide attempts, and aggression when someone broke up with them etc.

Another would completely rage out when they couldn't have inappropriate access to my boundaries, and call it abandonment.

Another would just act emotionally volatile and had low tolerance for stress, and would lash out, project and become physically aggressive— I think they had higher NDP traits, and less BPD.

[Invisiblewoman]

I was watching https://youtu.be/jLYwm3d4qHg?si=Sc50afggTyGQH-WW

YouTube channel is psychology with Dr. Ana.

I found her video of "growing up with a borderline parent" highly relatable. I don't think it means my mother had borderline personality disorder, and I think a narcissistic parent can have the same effect on their child.

But my mother had a highly emotionally volatile side that would come out. I would have to reassure her like she was a child.

I remember one experience where our cat got kidnapped by someone who drove by. He was an interesting cat, and stupidly friendly. Apparently someone picked him up and took him for a joy ride.

My mom called the police and was crying incessantly. We all loved the damn cat. The police showed up at 2am about the report. My mom hadn't stopped crying since the cat went missing.

I said, mom he'll probably come home. He's a homing pigeon for his food dish. While the police were taking her report the cat was watching her in the window. I had to repeatedly point out the cat came home.

My mom had a strangely sociopathic indifference to her children's pain however. But for the cat she cried incessantly.

Or if you suddenly pissed her off over something minor, hell hath no fury like my mom.

She had a lot of unpredictable and emotional reactions to things.

[square]

I wonder if your mother might fit the description of a covert narcissist.

Instead of being grandiose, they are powered by "poor me" victimhood. It can look like BPD because they are preoccupied with eliciting what looks like care from others. But it's not quite the same thing.

The cat story made me wonder if she was largely performing to collect on sympathy. The fact that you had to repeatedly point out the cat's return is what really stands out to me. If she was milking the drama for sympathy, she might not have been motivated to "find" the cat just yet.

The sociopathic indifference to the pain of her children doesn't rule out BPD but imho points strongly to NPD, including covert NPD.

[HeadAboveWater]

When I was new to Out of the FOG, it was really important for me to understand diagnoses. I wanted some explanation about how much other individuals were consciously responsible for the hurt they had caused me. I also wanted exculpatory evidence in case I felt like someone needed my empathy. I think it is a fairly normal human reaction to seek out information and to want to understand things better.

Labels can be convenient shorthand for talking about our experiences. But at the end of the day, we can only control our own actions. The enduring questions are "What am I able to tolerate?" and "What will I do about the things I cannot tolerate?" (I make it sound simple, but I know that there are a lot of consequences tied up in the answer to those questions and that the answers can vary over time.) To put things another way, would knowing a precise diagnosis change something for you or help you to make decisions differently?

In the process of coming Out of the FOG, I have realized that some of the people or behaviors that I had labeled as PD in my mind could have a lot of sources. Perhaps I was dealing with someone who had difficulty expressing empathy, but in a non-pathological way. Perhaps someone else was just plain abusive, whether or not s/he had a PD. Regardless of the label, I had to decide whether to keep the relationship, reduce contact, or move on from the relationship. I had to decide what my boundaries looked like and how I wanted to grieve. The toolbox and the forum have been great tools for both. It was a slight shift in perspective that helped me to focus my energy inward instead of outward on and people who felt difficult to deal with. 

I don't know if my experience matches yours, but I thought I'd put my perspective out there. Wishing you all the best on your path to understanding and healing.

[escapingman]

When I was getting my "degree" in PD people I found out that people with BPD are also NPD, but all NPD are not BPD. This is a very broad statement but I believe it to be true.

[Invisiblewoman]

When I was new to Out of the FOG, it was really important for me to understand diagnoses. I wanted some explanation about how much other individuals were consciously responsible for the hurt they had caused me. I also wanted exculpatory evidence in case I felt like someone needed my empathy. I think it is a fairly normal human reaction to seek out information and to want to understand things better.

I think it's the empathy part. I feel like my aunt and mother were emotionally stunted in a way. It was super frustrating dealing with them, and even rage inducing.

I feel like I need to see them as both their good and bad parts, so I am not angry with them.

I think when I got some solid information about my family I started seeing my mother came from a complicated family background that was abusive and controlling.

Because there are different family involved I wonder if they inherited personality traits that were exasperated by a rough up bringing.

No one likes to talk about the abuse in my family. And I think I was targeted because I did talk about the abuse.

I think learning everything I can instead of fussing over the details of what happened will help me.

[1footouttadefog]

Both NPD and BPD are Cluster B PD's.

There is a huge amount of overlap.  The idea of covert narcissism can come into play.


There are plenty of places where you can read the diagnostic criteria.   There are explanations of both on this website

What is important to know that if you are enduring the abuse being dished out by a PD person, you don't have to have a diagnosis to make things better.

It starts with working on yourself, learning what kinds of abuse you are dealing with then putting things into place to deal with it reduce the impacts of the other person on you.  This can requires painful realizations and possible push back or ramping up of negative behaviours by the PD person.

The tool box section of this website is super helpful.  Also find and read the 100 traits list. 

[MaxedOut]

Lots of great answers here. I'll also add I tend to think of them as two sides of the same coin in many ways (similar core fear, similar triggers, shared traits, etc.). And I think the gender split with most diagnosed with narcissism being men and most diagnosed borderline being women points to strong socialization pressure about how girls and boys and men and women "should" express fear, insecurity, deal with lack of control, interpret signals from others, roles, acceptable ways to express strong emotions. etc. And gender bias in diagnosing most likely but it's still there when evaluating by different means like self reported traits.