New Here - Coping living with toxic sibling-Any advice is great

[ToLearn]

This is my first post and it's so tempting to pour everything that I've experienced on here but that might be too much. You can skip to the last paragraph btw if you need.

What I will say is right now I feel very numb. I've recently resigned from my job due to stress, the last couple of years have been difficult and I still live with my family including this sibling. This month will mark the 8th month i've been put on silent treatment. Me and this sibling do not have a relationship at all and her behaviour has been disturbing over the last couple of years to put it blankly.

Before it was loud overt abuse mixed in with sensitivity to aggression over the most minor things that affected her ego, insults, mocking, passive aggression, extreme comparison, false accusations from projection (things that she did), hididng everything from everyone but denying it and accusing others of the same thing, extreme mean every day behaviours in how she would talk to people, address people, demand things from people, guilt tripping as well making herself the victim in things were she was the aggressor for no reason and extreme manipulative behaviours when asked to be accountabke for her behaviours such as gaslighting, deflection, pretending she ddint know what you were talking about and would accuse you of being the problem, raging and false tears.

Lack of empathy and extreme lack of remorse mixed in with unpredictable behaviour, swithcing up her mood, one minute she would be extrememly nice to you, gift you things out of nowhere, compliments then she would ask you to do a favour and as soon as you did it her behaviour would go back to being cold, rude, mocking and nasty. I received multiple insults to my appearnace, behaviours, down to even what i watched and was interested in. There was always something to monitor and mock. This was the overt stage over the years my sisters behaviour has become more covert. This happened after the above behaviour stopped affecting me. I started creating distance about 9 years ago due to the above, i stopped taking her behaviour personally, stopped feeling guilt over things that had nothing to do with me, stopped asking her to do things with me, stopped responding to her "niceness" as i started accepting it wasn't real and there were no real improvements made, went to therapy for my OCD as that was really awful and started losing the weight I had gained over those years.

That's when everythign weirdly got worse. My improvement in myself seemed to have triggered something in her and from that point onwards she made herself the victim, her behaviour over the years became more covert, manipulative and borderline stalkerish. What was overt mocking, ridicule and rage turned into monitoring, excessive covert competition, sabotage and extreme obsession over my movements in the house, style, hair, body, room, habits and routines. I experienced extereme mimicry down to how i would speak at times. Consistently went from Idealisation to Devaluation tactics as well as guilt tripping and making herself the ultimate victim. Her behaviour became quieter but more disturbing.

All of this worsened during lockdown. Before lockdown I had gotten a job, i remember telling her casually as I didn't think this was a big deal, this seemed to have struck a nerve as the day before my job she created an issue from nothing which resulted in her making a physical threat of throwing water she has put on the stove on my head as she had ordered me to wash a pan she had slammed down (as she used to hide pots in her room as she didn't like using utensils with her family) without saying please or thank you and I responded by saying that wasn't right and it was borderline rude. During the time i didnt know anything about NPD so didn't know i needed to be a bit more careful with how i set boundaries as anything sets them off. Lockdown happened after that and I was stuck with this behaviour. 6 years later I have tried, grey rocking, setting boundaries, saying no more but this seems to have made the behaviour worse and me feel more miserable and heavily observed even though some of the bahviours have tailed off.

The monitoring had made me feel like I was going in sane, it has not gone on outside of the house bar the time she showed up working at a place i told her i was working at and then called me secretive as i didnt give her my schedule though she never asked for it, it was almost like i was supposed to give it to her as she is God in her mind . All of this has made me feel like a shell of myself. I feel like my identity is up for grabs, I feel heavily aware of my own behaviours as these have been triggers over the last couple of years that i never noticed before lockdown. if i went for a walk, was in a good mood, had a new hobby, new friend, new job, was more fit, if my hair grew, damn if i cleaned, if i cooked for family, new meals, did my room, bought furniture, anything that was connected to regular adulthood seemed to trigger very aggressive passive aggression and sabotage over these things. She has shown behaviours around exerting herself to leave the house before me, using facilities when i needed to use them or if i used them watching me, stimping slamming doors, rude behaviour and attitude, slamming doors in my face, if i was to leave the house she would make sure to be in the area and would watch me, scanning outfits, opening the front door to watch me go thinking i didn't see her, trying to prompt competition "it's my turn to go out whilst you stay at home how do you feel now?" like it was a competition to leave the house. She would jump out of doors and snigger if i got startled, blockign kitchen use - this was the worst if i got home at anytime from work ( i had three different closing times) that's when she would run and occupy the kitchen for hours, if i tried to use the kitchen at the same time as her she would call me creepy and say i was stalking her and needing to use the kitchen at the same time as her (which was projection).

I stood up to alot of these things when we were put in temp accomodation this year after becoming homeless and tried to start my fitness journey again and that's when this 8 month silent treamtment started. Over the years she has done silent treatments consistently, after she is done, she blames them on me and denies anything to herslef and my mum - this one she was caught red handed as she lied.

All in all, all of this has really hurt me, my OCD has flared up several times in the last couple of years, i've gotten ill so many times, i'm finding it hard to enjoy things as I notice I ruminate alot, i'm hyper aware of my own behaviours i try to challenge it but it's so difficult as this is over a decades worth (15 years) of draining behaviours ( i havent even gone into some of the stories and manipulations that were horror) i question whether i have cptsd. I feel numb, I feel worried alot and i feel heavily betrayed. I try to switch off like i did before but after the level of monitoring I find it extremely difficult now that i've resigned and im without a job. In the last year, I lost a family member, my mum got ill, we lost our house we had lived in for 17 years and was made homeless and worked a stressful job. i have one freind left as i don't socialise and spend so much time by myself. I want to feel good again but this has really broken me down and made me feel like i won't be at peace till I move out.

I know there are things i could do to help myself so i'm wondering if i could get any advice from anyone who has been in a similar situation, to let me know what tips have worked for them whilst they still live with a sibling like this or helped them have the courage to still be themselves whilst living with a sibling like this. Even sharing your story would help me. I'm paranoid of being in someways devalued, i seem to be hyperaware of it. I will say I am proud of the way i stood up to this person several times and i feel their move from overt to covert was due to how defending myself and setting boundaries worked. As they say, it will get worse before it gets better but it won't really go away unless you induce No Contact.

She seems obsessed with winning something, I don't know what it is, or maybe i just need to challenge seeing it that way and accept that this person is very challenged and is not capable and stepping away from how she thinks will give me some respite. Sometimes learning about toxic patterns or uNPD can be a second trauma, the ignornace you had before actually lowkey protected you from understanding their behvaiour. Understanding it can make you become in tune with it which is the last hting victims of this behaviour need to feel and i would love to challenge it. I feel like i have alot of resentment and i would love to check in to therapy for it. So sorry if this was long and messy and sorry for typos or repetition.

[bloomie]

ToLearn - hi and welcome to Out of the FOG. I apologize for this siting for a bit without a response. Thank you or introducing yourself. I would like to move this to the welcome mat to give members a chance to read the context of the difficult relationship you are dealing with with your sister. Let me know it is okay to do so. I also added some paragraph breaks to make it easier to people to read through your post. 

Wow! As I read through this it is so important to read that you have begun to identify how this intense mimicry and undermining - subtle or outright - from your sister has impacted you. I am just so sorry for the discomfort, loss of personal space and a sense of living out your individuality this has to bring.

For now, it seems your are experiencing the silent treatment which is an invasive and pervasive type of passive aggression that permeates the atmosphere around us. Some here come to define it as the 'silent treat' and lean into the absence of verbal interaction with a difficult loved one. 

Having a very similar sister in law - sil  (not the same I do know because we do not live together) I began to ask myself what it is about her intense, intrusive stalkerish mimicry was bothering me, specifically. I experienced a similar dynamic as her way of inhabiting every area around her. I began to feel like nothing was mine, watched and studied versus known. Erased and merged with with someone I came to have little desire to engage with.

It has be to extra challenging to be living in the same home and sharing resources and relationships with other family members.

Are you able to create areas that belong only to you? A safe space within the home? Are you able to keep back information about jobs, activities, relationships or interactions in the community around you? Something around here we call putting someone on a strict information diet?

Is there a place you can go to - coffee house, park, or a class you can take or interest you can pursue that would get you out of the house? Do you have access to a therapist of can you find a mentor - an older, wise person you can talk to who can serve as a sounding board and empathetic witness to this?

I slowly began to withdraw and practice a cool, polite, neutral posture every single time I was around this person. I call it putting on beige. A kind of 'nothing to see here' old boring kind of presence. And I stopped monitoring what she was doing, saying, buying or ways of being she was adopting and measuring my uniqueness by if/when/how someone was copying me.

I started focusing on my response to it all and not her determined, and let's be honest, very empty and desperate behaviors that make no sense to me and never, ever will.

It takes some kindness and understanding toward yourself to begin to live out the internal values and boundaries that make up who you uniquely and beautifully are. I would gently agree with something  you did say that it often gets harder before it gets better - that was true for me and I hope will not be true for you, but if it is, you are smart and self aware and will find healthy ways to move through it!

Take a good look at all the resources found at the drop down menus above. Read through the conversations taking place on the boards and gain insights. Keep coming back. Certain parts of the forum are not as active as they once were, but keep posting and engaging where you see they are. I look forward to supporting you!

[LoverofPeace]

Hello ToLearn (what a great forum name!),

I wish I had seen this at the time/date that you wrote it. However, after a very long hiatus, I myself recently came to visit here just the other day. I see you haven't returned since, so I am hoping you will. Perhaps you noticed no one responded for awhile. I'm glad Bloomie did, but maybe you thought no one would and checked out. I felt the same way when I was new and didn't get a response. Then I read that someone explained (it might have been Bloomie) that you won't necessarily get a response right away. One reason is because these subjects on narcissism are so intense, that the reader might have to step away for awhile and think it through before giving their point-of-view. That made sense to me and helped.

With that said, I want to get into what you wrote. It struck me hard, because I could have wrote it myself, with an NPD sister that I have! There's so much there to unpack and is the reason I'm back on here. Yet, I haven't had a good chance to write about it; it's actually exhausting to have to rehash. I was doing really well for years and it's not that she started something with me (lately), but it's other family members/events that could potentially make things difficult again. Which is not a blame to them; they're only doing family things. But it could be difficult for me just the same and hard for me how to navigate with my peace and safety intact. I've kept my boundaries in place and physical distance, but you know how these things come up when it comes to family members. Once again, there's so much here and I just don't have the energy to write it all out yet. But I said it'd be good to also come here to help someone else out. I've learned a lot over the years and while I used to interact on forums like this, I eventually fell off, as life will tend to do to you. But honestly, I also wanted to simply live for a change and see what someone who gets to do it normally would feel. So wherever I could put that dark cloud (as I call certain NPD family members) and exhaustive topic in the rearview mirror, that's what I did.

Still and all, I can relate (no pun intended). As stated, I have this same type of sister: the raging, monitoring, competing, gaslighting, etc. When we were little (I'm the younger one, but only by 11 months), she used to do weird things like sleep a lot if in the house. But when awake, she would always want to be outside with friends around; acting 'grown' in a sense. If she could, she'd do that 24/7. It was like having these friends/people around her was her oxygen. And she'd think she was slick/lie/flirt in petty ways. She seemed 'nice' at times but was 'distant' in a sense. She wasn't truly warm, calm, and caring like my other older sister (R.I.P.).  And it only got worse over the years. 

Now as grown folks (very grown!), she is doing the same stupid things. I don't come around her because of it; she has even physically attacked me in the past few years. I took care of her good because of it, but it was a very nasty thing what she did and it was over nothing! I wrote about it back then and it's very disturbing. So much so, it solidified my staying away from her as much as possible. Thank goodness we live in different states and I refuse to do stuff like come visit her and never have I invited her in my space. But I still had to be around her for things like my Mom's and Grandmom's funerals (these events were two years apart). And that's back to the event thing which is the dilemma I'm having. But I won't get into that on this post.

What I am saying is distance with these malignant types is so necessary (though it might not always be that simple-another story, too, but persistence on our part is one of the keys). The way your sis sounds, she's high on that narcissist scale (also malignant) and the mental distance is just not enough, it seems. I'm no doctor, but she keeps doing a number on you and it has multiplied over the years because she's not going to change. It actually only gets worse. So, your mental and emotional health cannot keep taking this craziness without it affecting you. I'd keep looking for the next job (it's smart you don't tell her about it; same with me and whatever I do in my life! But be diligent about the stalking part); look for another place (I'd also not reveal that), and keep creating that distance. Then, you can continue to work on healing your body, mind, and soul. But never stop that regardless. Keep doing what you can right where you are today. You sound like you have been and that's great!

By the way, I can't help but wonder if she has ever gotten physically violent with you as my sister has done? I hope not and hope you'll see this post, because I want you to be safe. But I also wonder with anyone going through something like this with a person having NPD. Because I have researched this subject for years, and I don't see a lot of people saying there's been physical altercations, along with the verbal. While it's all bad, I sometimes ponder how all that is going on and they keep their hands to themselves. As my sister had stated (one of those rare truths coming from her), she 'blacks out' when she goes into that rage.

God be with us all. Be safe and well and feel free to respond any time you, hopefully, return.

[ToLearn]

To Bloomie and LoverofPeace,

Thank you so much for your replies and the context you have given me. I understand what I wrote might have been very heavy for people going through the same when I was writing all that I did I was trying to hold back but sometimes it's difficult as i guess there's a part of you that wants people to understand how difficult it is, and then there's another part of you that still gaslights yourself into thinking that your experience is vague and not as bad as you may think so you keep adding more and more context and experiences so people know what you're describing and how it is affecting you. And yes you can put this on the Welcome Mat. It is so helpful you shared your experiences, this has helped me alot to understand I'm not the only one who has experienced this very specific type of controlling behaviour. It's not quite stalking or coercive abuse but it is a mesh of both but slightly easier to hide.

To answer your questions, I don't really have someone to talk to about this, no older relative, the only person is my mum but she seems to be half enabler half victim herslf of my sisters behaviour as my sister has been awful to her as well but less so over the last couple of months. I do have places to go that are safe places outside of the house. I don't tell her anything about myself, but I tell my mum who is so quick to tell my sister and my sister eavesdrops, I have caught her many times opening her bedroom door if i talk about plans to my mum which is creepy. If i say im going out at a certain time and im going to so and so place my sister will wake up at that exact time or slightly earlier to say she is either going to the same place or race me out the house... I will try to get a therapist who understands this type of behaviour, i think that is so integral to healing well.

I'm anxious about how bad it could get again sadly. There was a period where i wasn't able to eat, cook or even shower that well. She has threatened physical violence multiple times from just very simple boundaries. Last time, months ago she got annoyed that i was showeirng before her, there was a series of behaviours i ignored and then it halted when she tried to block the bathroom the next day after and got aggressive and said I couldn't use the toilet to pee and blocked the door several times to stop me from using the toilet. Bare in mind she ran out of her room as soon as she heard me leave mine to "use the shower" at 7am in the morning (this girl hasn't had a job for 5 years) I kept my cool an she insulted me and then tried to act like a victim.

I will seek therapy, I will look for community more but you're both right I will keep my eyes on this and take this very seriously and look for separate accomodation and another job. And thank you LoverofPeace, I do think this seems more like the malignant type and is very high up there in terms of narcissism. Again I appreciate your insights, I'll keep reading your replies and I will look at the advice to heal on this forum. I just wish I had the money to up myself from this place and begin and really heal how I know I can. Thanks for seeing me.