Getting worse - doing some really strange things

[p123]

OK after being on this forum I know to expect push back when you start adding boundaries....
Last month Dad has got way worse. Its starting to freak me a out a little with some of the things hes said and done.

Its become obvious that hes noticed I'm not giving in any more and has upped things a lot. Some of it can deal with (just ignore him) some of its is a little freaky.

OK, so I visited this weekend. Phoned him and he was like "Oh thats great I'm so relieved!" Dad has a habit of not putting the phone down when hes finished talking and when I'm in the car, sometimes before I put the phone down, I can hear him. Not the first time but today, after he thought I was gone I heard him "Oh thank you lord hes visiting today". Now Dad is a bit religious and takes it seriously.

But this has sort of freaked me out (again!) What on earth is the big deal about me visiting? I might be entertaining but I dont think I'm that interesting! He spent all week laying it on "I've got no food", "hope you can visit", "I dont know what I'll do otherwise", "I've been soooo ill".

I dunno I suppose being a narc is a sort of mental illness but Dad looks like hes getting really, really obsessive over it all. He seems to spend a LOT of energy on this me visiting or not thing all the time. Having had highly suspicious hospital visits in the past (99% sure self inflcted injuries) it worries me that I don't how far he is willing to take this.

Its just crazy to be honest. As I've said before, in health terms Dad is pretty good. He can look after himself fine, hes got friends, he can go out, yet he seems absolutely obsessed that I've got prove to him that I'm htere for him ALL the time.

Any advice?

[Poison Ivy]

This is just my opinion (obviously), so take it for what it's worth.  I think your dad meant for you to hear his comment because he likely knows or guesses that you spend a lot of time thinking about him.  That is, he's just trying to guilt trip you.

[GettingOOTF]

This is just my opinion (obviously), so take it for what it's worth.  I think your dad meant for you to hear his comment because he likely knows or guesses that you spend a lot of time thinking about him.  That is, he's just trying to guilt trip you.

He's a grown man. He knows how the phone works.

[illogical]

...I dunno I suppose being a narc is a sort of mental illness but Dad looks like hes getting really, really obsessive over it all. He seems to spend a LOT of energy on this me visiting or not thing all the time. Having had highly suspicious hospital visits in the past (99% sure self inflcted injuries) it worries me that I don't how far he is willing to take this.

NPD is not only "sort of a mental illness", it's a serious mental illness.  My advice to you is to study up on NPD.  Ns have an unquenchable thirst for attention.  They want your attention and they want it all the time.  They are a bottomless pit of attention-seeking need.

How far is your father willing to take this?  He will likely go to great lengths to get you back in your role of "dutiful son".  And the role of "dutiful son" includes visiting him whenever he wants.  If you aren't complying 100% with his demands, you are falling short.  In fact, I would bet money that's why the request to God-- which I agree with the other posters you were meant to hear. 

Translation:  "Hey God, my son hasn't been fulfilling his sonly duties lately.  He's been negligent in visiting me.  So my fervent prayer is that you will bring him back in line and make him see the light and he will visit me whenever I request."  Of course this is all just a show.  And of course he wanted you to overhear the comment about his "prayer" being answered.  So you will know that God is on his side and is willing to work with your dad to bring you back in line.  AUTHORITY OF GOD is on his side.  Message received?

Ns can be very, very adept at the acting profession.  My NM gave an Academy Award performance the last time I saw her.  It was really remarkable. 

[NumbLotus]

That little move of his hit the target square on - it's freaking you out, exactly as intended.

Never let him know you heard or care.

[p123]

This is just my opinion (obviously), so take it for what it's worth.  I think your dad meant for you to hear his comment because he likely knows or guesses that you spend a lot of time thinking about him.  That is, he's just trying to guilt trip you.

Yeh good point didn't think of that....

Seems very strange behaviour to pretty much make me think hes going a bit crazy like that. Then again, 10 years I'd have said Dad was such a nice man he'd never pull any of the stunts hes tried this last decade.

[p123]

...I dunno I suppose being a narc is a sort of mental illness but Dad looks like hes getting really, really obsessive over it all. He seems to spend a LOT of energy on this me visiting or not thing all the time. Having had highly suspicious hospital visits in the past (99% sure self inflcted injuries) it worries me that I don't how far he is willing to take this.

NPD is not only "sort of a mental illness", it's a serious mental illness.  My advice to you is to study up on NPD.  Ns have an unquenchable thirst for attention.  They want your attention and they want it all the time.  They are a bottomless pit of attention-seeking need.

How far is your father willing to take this?  He will likely go to great lengths to get you back in your role of "dutiful son".  And the role of "dutiful son" includes visiting him whenever he wants.  If you aren't complying 100% with his demands, you are falling short.  In fact, I would bet money that's why the request to God-- which I agree with the other posters you were meant to hear. 

Translation:  "Hey God, my son hasn't been fulfilling his sonly duties lately.  He's been negligent in visiting me.  So my fervent prayer is that you will bring him back in line and make him see the light and he will visit me whenever I request."  Of course this is all just a show.  And of course he wanted you to overhear the comment about his "prayer" being answered.  So you will know that God is on his side and is willing to work with your dad to bring you back in line.  AUTHORITY OF GOD is on his side.  Message received?

Ns can be very, very adept at the acting profession.  My NM gave an Academy Award performance the last time I saw her.  It was really remarkable.

Hmm yeh as above. Thing is I'm not religious so not sure how much sway he thinks that would have.

But yeh its just amazing how far he seems to go sometimes. It scares me if I'm honest.

[p123]

That little move of his hit the target square on - it's freaking you out, exactly as intended.

Never let him know you heard or care.

No plans to tell him. That would be a bad idea. That would open a discussion I think to how much he needs me, how lonely he is, how he NEVER goes out, how ill he is.
I've seen it before a 100 times. I dont go there now. Any time he tries to steer the conversation this way it gets moved back or ignored.

But yes I can see maybe. Its sort of like "Im struggling so much and so desperate and its so urgent I've got to pray to God because I've got no options left open to me".

[illogical]

...But yes I can see maybe. Its sort of like "Im struggling so much and so desperate and its so urgent I've got to pray to God because I've got no options left open to me".

Exactly!  He's trying to play the Ultimate Guilt Card here.  What you said above is precisely the message he is trying to send you in hopes you will feel sorry for him and visit him more.  It's pure manipulation.  NumbLotus is right-- don't give him the reaction he desires, or it will send him a message that he was successful in his ploy.   

[NumbLotus]

You might beat him to the punch hanging up next time so you don't have to hear that crap.

"Okay, talk to you later, Dad" - immediately HIT THE HANG UP BUTTON rather than wait for him to do so. Or at least mute the volume.

It's crazy how many "tactics" one has to use with a PD person - anybody else, you could just let them hang up without a worry. But when people are tactically manipulating you, you have to tactically protect yourself.

[Phoenix Rising]

Ugh, so sorry to read that you are still dealing with this. He sounds a bit BPD too based on the self-injuries you mentioned. They do that - up the intensity when you don't react or give in to their crap. Like you said.. he have friends, health and can go out himself. It's good you know this and not let him guilt you into going back to being at his beck and call.

I'm not really sure what other advice to provide other than to stay strong and keep using the strategies you're using. Saying bye and hanging up when he gets too intense is a good suggestion.

[p123]

Ugh, so sorry to read that you are still dealing with this. He sounds a bit BPD too based on the self-injuries you mentioned. They do that - up the intensity when you don't react or give in to their crap. Like you said.. he have friends, health and can go out himself. It's good you know this and not let him guilt you into going back to being at his beck and call.

I'm not really sure what other advice to provide other than to stay strong and keep using the strategies you're using. Saying bye and hanging up when he gets too intense is a good suggestion.

Yes I think all of this stuff is driven mostly by anxiety with him. He gets into a state about almost anything to be honest...

Yes OK its not his fault here but of course, its not possible for him to control others lives because of how he feels and how he worries. Also, a discussion about maybe seeing someone about this would be a complete negative. His views on mental illness are that only mad people get it and thats the end of it. (Maybe he needs to look at Tyson Fury the boxer whos been quite successful recently).

Yes more of the same. It does sadden me that these days I can't have anything like a relationship with Dad because hes always playing an angle.....

I have learned that there is nothing I can do here. I can't meet his expectations, hes never going to listen to me, and he'll never change.

[Fortuna]

...I dunno I suppose being a narc is a sort of mental illness but Dad looks like hes getting really, really obsessive over it all. He seems to spend a LOT of energy on this me visiting or not thing all the time. Having had highly suspicious hospital visits in the past (99% sure self inflcted injuries) it worries me that I don't how far he is willing to take this.

NPD is not only "sort of a mental illness", it's a serious mental illness.  My advice to you is to study up on NPD.  Ns have an unquenchable thirst for attention.  They want your attention and they want it all the time.  They are a bottomless pit of attention-seeking need.

How far is your father willing to take this?  He will likely go to great lengths to get you back in your role of "dutiful son".  And the role of "dutiful son" includes visiting him whenever he wants.  If you aren't complying 100% with his demands, you are falling short.  In fact, I would bet money that's why the request to God-- which I agree with the other posters you were meant to hear. 

Translation:  "Hey God, my son hasn't been fulfilling his sonly duties lately.  He's been negligent in visiting me.  So my fervent prayer is that you will bring him back in line and make him see the light and he will visit me whenever I request."  Of course this is all just a show.  And of course he wanted you to overhear the comment about his "prayer" being answered.  So you will know that God is on his side and is willing to work with your dad to bring you back in line.  AUTHORITY OF GOD is on his side.  Message received?

Ns can be very, very adept at the acting profession.  My NM gave an Academy Award performance the last time I saw her.  It was really remarkable.

Hmm yeh as above. Thing is I'm not religious so not sure how much sway he thinks that would have.

But yeh its just amazing how far he seems to go sometimes. It scares me if I'm honest.

Remember that a narcissist thinks of you as an extension of themselves, so if he is religious, of course you are too, so therefore in his mind it should work beautifully.

[p123]

...I dunno I suppose being a narc is a sort of mental illness but Dad looks like hes getting really, really obsessive over it all. He seems to spend a LOT of energy on this me visiting or not thing all the time. Having had highly suspicious hospital visits in the past (99% sure self inflcted injuries) it worries me that I don't how far he is willing to take this.

NPD is not only "sort of a mental illness", it's a serious mental illness.  My advice to you is to study up on NPD.  Ns have an unquenchable thirst for attention.  They want your attention and they want it all the time.  They are a bottomless pit of attention-seeking need.

How far is your father willing to take this?  He will likely go to great lengths to get you back in your role of "dutiful son".  And the role of "dutiful son" includes visiting him whenever he wants.  If you aren't complying 100% with his demands, you are falling short.  In fact, I would bet money that's why the request to God-- which I agree with the other posters you were meant to hear. 

Translation:  "Hey God, my son hasn't been fulfilling his sonly duties lately.  He's been negligent in visiting me.  So my fervent prayer is that you will bring him back in line and make him see the light and he will visit me whenever I request."  Of course this is all just a show.  And of course he wanted you to overhear the comment about his "prayer" being answered.  So you will know that God is on his side and is willing to work with your dad to bring you back in line.  AUTHORITY OF GOD is on his side.  Message received?

Ns can be very, very adept at the acting profession.  My NM gave an Academy Award performance the last time I saw her.  It was really remarkable.

Hmm yeh as above. Thing is I'm not religious so not sure how much sway he thinks that would have.

But yeh its just amazing how far he seems to go sometimes. It scares me if I'm honest.

Remember that a narcissist thinks of you as an extension of themselves, so if he is religious, of course you are too, so therefore in his mind it should work beautifully.

Hmmm Yeh didnt think of that.....

I had a bad experience with a "religious" stepmother who was the most evil human being I've ever met so me and religion are not on speaking terms. Dad knows this.

Good luck with that one Dad. Even if I did believe it - I know God wouldnt want me abandoning my family for his stupid crap.

[NumbLotus]

It still worked, though. It threw you for a loop.

[p123]

It still worked, though. It threw you for a loop.

Yes but made me less likely to visit to be honest. More likely to see through it as Dads "stupid crap" and not real needs..... Perhaps hes hasnt realised I feel this way of course.

[NumbLotus]

He realizes you've changed. He knows something is different.

But instead of saying "I think maybe I've overwhelmed him with my demands and I need to back off and just appreciate what he does for me despite being a family man with a career,"  he is stepping up the FOG in hope of getting you back in line. 

Because that's how PD people work.

[illogical]

He realizes you've changed. He knows something is different.

But instead of saying "I think maybe I've overwhelmed him with my demands and I need to back off and just appreciate what he does for me despite being a family man with a career,"  he is stepping up the FOG in hope of getting you back in line. 

Because that's how PD people work.

The sad reality is that you won't likely be able to ever do enough for your dad-- in his mind.  I found from my experience with NM that whatever I did, it was never enough.  My life, my work was of no consequence to her.  She could only see things through her own selfish narcissistic lens.  Everything revolved around her and getting her needs met.  I sacrificed a lot of time and effort for her, but instead of being appreciative-- the most she ever did was throw me a few crumbs of affection and mostly tried to buy me with her money-- she just wanted more.  It really was like trying to continually put out brush fires.  Once I thought I had the situation under control, it was just move on to the next crisis. 

I think you are realizing, p123, that your dad is never going to be satisfied, no matter how much you give him of your time and effort.  It is a very sad reality that we all face when dealing with a N. 

[p123]

He realizes you've changed. He knows something is different.

But instead of saying "I think maybe I've overwhelmed him with my demands and I need to back off and just appreciate what he does for me despite being a family man with a career,"  he is stepping up the FOG in hope of getting you back in line. 

Because that's how PD people work.

The sad reality is that you won't likely be able to ever do enough for your dad-- in his mind.  I found from my experience with NM that whatever I did, it was never enough.  My life, my work was of no consequence to her.  She could only see things through her own selfish narcissistic lens.  Everything revolved around her and getting her needs met.  I sacrificed a lot of time and effort for her, but instead of being appreciative-- the most she ever did was throw me a few crumbs of affection and mostly tried to buy me with her money-- she just wanted more.  It really was like trying to continually put out brush fires.  Once I thought I had the situation under control, it was just move on to the next crisis. 

I think you are realizing, p123, that your dad is never going to be satisfied, no matter how much you give him of your time and effort.  It is a very sad reality that we all face when dealing with a N.

Illogical - you are right.

I'm beginning to realise with Dad that, he panics and has anxiety about so many things, that there is no room for anything else. He seems to have convinced himself hes really ill (hes not), convinced himself that he can't cope living alone (he can), and convinced himself that everyone is going to abandon him (they're not).

As such, from what I can see ALL his energy seems to be spent on doing things to ensure that I'm available to do things for him. Part of the reason why he has no time for his grandchildren. When I visit its literally an hour all about him and what he needs - the grandchildren aren't important to him.

He doesn't need groceries when I visit but he gets me to get them anyway - there about £20 worth. But he doesnt seem to want to admit this. Hes got a "use it or lose it" attitude to this.
Same with illness. Hes not ill. But unless he proves to me that he is ill and/or can't walk then I might forget about him..
If I miss one weeks visit its the end of the world. I might never visit again?
If I'm ill, he needs to check. What if I'm ill and can't visit him again?

He does try to be nice but I'm beginning to see through this as just doing it to keep me onside. Its getting obvious. Same with money....

Thing is bottom line is, in his head, hes old and he needs to be looked after. Everything else (like my family) is not his problem its mine to sort out.
I remember a few years ago going away for the weekend, me, Dad and Dads cousin. His cousin piped up "You need to realise p has got his own family so can't always visit". Dads face went red. "BUT he doesn't visit much as it is, and I need help". Speaks volumes.....

Can guarantee if you asked him about some of his more outlandish behaviour such as the fake hospitals, fake illnesses, general lies etc he'd justify it by saying "BUT I need someone to help me".

One thing at the moment thats annoying me is the "shuffle". When I'm with him, he literally walks 1 inch at a time taking minutes to cross the room. When I took him out for dinner xmas time he was worse. Yet he forgets he told me the other day he'd been for walk to the betting shop (to put money on the horses). Its half a mile away across a busy road - it would have taken him days doing the "shuffle".

I did point this out to him but I got the usual response - NOTHING. I get that a lot when I call him out on his lies. NOTHING. Its swept under the carpet.

Sometimes I think - do you not know that I'm not that stupid and you're lies are just so obvious? The walking thing, the "I've been so ill" then I get there and hes fine, the "I've got no food in the house" then I find out hes got loads. All lies which are easily called out. Does he think I haven't noticed?

And his comments. Does he think that telling me not to take my 6 year old to early morning ice skating is going to work? Telling my wife she has to call him on his birthday? Constantly asking about how my back is when I know its just because he wants to check I've not got an excuse to not visit? Surely not.

[lkdrymom]

My father used to pull stuff like that. I used to get so offended...did he really think I was so stupid that I didn't see right through him. And if you called him out on it he would pretend he couldn't hear me.

He is jealous that you have a family you WANT to spend time with and who WANT to be with you.  Of course he does not see that he lived his life the way he wanted and has ended in this place because of how he lived his life.  My father doesn't remember lavishing high praise on others and ignoring me.  Now all he knows is that those people are no longer around and all he has is me.   Now I am a VIP in his eyes.  But he is not in mine.  I remember how I was never important to him.  So he is not so important to me.   He would never understand that because that is not how he remembers things.