I want to talk about Neighbour

[Concerned One]

So, I have this neighbour upstairs.
He rarely goes out.
Doesn't receive guests.
He seriously triggers me and I'm not sure why. I'm wondering is it me or is he triggering me for a reason.

In person this man in forties comes across as timid and meek. Avoidant personality even.

In his flat though he comes across as quite aggressive: heavy stomping; loud farting; guitar-playing with foot thumping on my ceiling; tv loud enough to hear at night; sound of something very heavy dropping late at night.

I've knocked on his door once when he was making a racket at 1 in the morning but otherwise I've resolved not to approach this chap because:

1) I don't want to infringe on someone's personal space
2) if he is doing it on purpose then there's just no point.

But what I really want to know is, am I being over sensitive? Am I seeing narcs where there are none?

[Starboard Song]

Probably so.

The evidence you've provided is only of someone who walks with a heavy step, plays loud music, keeps his television volume high, and seems to move things around, even at late hours.

He may be insensitive. Or he may just have no idea that most people in a shared building get quiet after a certain time in the evening. He may lack that etiquette, and he also may have no idea how well the sound carries. For that matter, if you are hearing loud passing of gas, you may be the victim of really bad construction quality. There is a good chance, I'd guess, that a sweetly worded note that asks him to keep it down after, say, 10 pm, would help a lot.

In any case, there are vastly more rude people than pathological narcissists. Since one group is far more amenable to suggestion and reason, it makes a difference. I'd avoid the diagnosis and try to diplomatically address the issue.

Good luck! I hope you can get some better sleep!

[Concerned One]

I struggle with approaching people about things like this. I've been raised to believe my needs don't matter. And even when I know they do I still struggle. My first response is anger.

[Penny Lane]

I think that one of two (contradictory) things could be going, but the root is the same. Those of us who've encountered a PD, we are on high alert for PD patterns. We are more familiar with these patterns than others because we've seen them up close, and our instincts are telling us to STAY AWAY.

So 1. You subconsciously picking up signals this this guy is Bad News, and your gut is trying to warn you.

Or ... 2. Your PD detector has become TOO finely tuned. So people who are not PDs but do bear a superficial resemblance to a PD you've encountered, they are triggering your sensor. Or maybe you're reacting to feeling like your needs don't matter to him - although in this case, unlike probably your past PD interactions, you haven't given him an opportunity to show you whether he cares about your needs or not.

From what you've said here, he doesn't sound like a PD just like a rude neighbor. But it's possible that you are sensing other things that are harder to articulate.

I think if you go SS's route of a sweetly worded note, you might get some good data points one way or another. I also don't think you're obligated to get to the bottom of it one way or another; you're allowed to stay away from people just because they give you a bad vibe.

[Starboard Song]

Penny Lane is so correct.

[Concerned One]

Yes. I'm getting emotional flashbacks with this guy like you wouldn't believe. I just have to hear a THUD! Or when he lets rip my insides jump.

Could be I'm being over sensitive but the messages I'm getting are 'stay the hell away'.

He already knows I can hear everything because I've told him I can hear what songs he plays and by whom.

I'm trusting my feelings on this one though. I'm not crazy. I got a real bad vibe about this guy.

[Starboard Song]

You are definitely not crazy.

[clara]

Sounds like this guy is trying to get a reaction out of you.  Why he wants to do that is anyone's guess, but in my experience, people who do this are trouble.  They know what they're doing and do it anyway.  They're looking for attention, and negative attention is just fine.  If you approach them with your concerns and they brush you off, then escalate their behavior, that, to me, is serious. 

In situations like this, it can help to stop questioning yourself, and look at the situation objectively.  That's not ignoring your feelings, that's trying to put things into perspective.  If he really seems to be doing things to annoy you, if he really isn't responding to your concerns, if he makes you feel bad or uneasy when you talk with him, if he's escalating the situation, then your reasoned reaction (not just your feeling or gut reaction) can help reassure you that no, it's not you.  This is a situation that's really happening.  So at that point, you have to decide how and if you want to deal with it.  Some apartments are so cheaply constructed that yes, any neighbor can become a nuisance, and do you want to keep living there?  Is there anything the landlord can or will do?  When I've been in situations like this, I've tried to explore all possibilities and then if all those possibilities were dead ends, just bit the bullet and moved.  I've never regretted moving away from a problematic neighbor. 

[Concerned One]

Yes Clara. I think so too. Nobody in their right mind would think playing the guitar or their stereo at midnight is an appropriate thing to do.

Also, when I first moved in I chatted to the neighbour below who told me the previous tenant of my flat was a nuisance! Playing his video games late at night.

I wouldn't be surprised if it was in retaliation to the guy upstairs.

Anyway we see how it goes. X

[Concerned One]

You are definitely not crazy.

[Andeza]

Outrageously loud farting at all hours? I think you just described my DH, lol.

But more seriously, apartments are generally cheaply constructed. I'd be surprised if there was even an ounce on insulation between the two levels to help deaden sound. You have a few options to deal with it. First, the kind note, which if he's just an oblivious ?bachelor? he'll probably be embarrassed and tone it down after those hours. Second, earplugs. Third, look into sound dampening options you can apply in an apartment. I don't know any off the top of my head, just a thought. Final option, let the landlord know.

I've also come to realize over the years that certain individuals have greater or lesser "volume." Some people move loud, talk loud, laugh loud, and it's nothing to do with a PD, it's just them. Others are quiet in every way. Is he PD? I haven't the slightest idea, but for right now, I say play it by ear. (Bad pun, I know)

[Concerned One]

I don't know. I guess people are strange.

I had the downstairs neighbour come to me twice about making noise:

First time I admittedly was playing music loud.

Second time I was watching television.

I haven't made a peep since, but she seems to think it's fine to come home at 3am and SLAM!!!! that front door shut.

They're all door slammers here. And nothing sets of my triggers than a door slam.

Yup, got my ear plugs and white noise at the ready. 

[Andeza]

I will say, there is a ton of oddness and lack of self awareness in the world. I'd say 90% of people I meet are odd to some degree, many in a good, fun, quirky way. The remainder come across as normal, but usually aren't.

I think it was Harley Quinn that said normal was a setting on a washing machine.

[blacksheep7]

I will say, there is a ton of oddness and lack of self awareness in the world. I'd say 90% of people I meet are odd to some degree, many in a good, fun, quirky way. The remainder come across as normal, but usually aren't.

I think it was Harley Quinn that said normal was a setting on a washing machine.

Neighbours   Hope you don't mind that I added my story about my mine.

I have a close neighbour to my right who would come out every morning to pick up his mail only wearing a towel around his waste in plain sight for me to see from my window and other neighbours as well.
It was a  towel with an elastic waist and a slit on the side for me to see, like a skirt  I kid you not.   

When I first arrived in my new home fifteen years ago, he had moved in shortly before me.  We had a pleasant first talk as neighbours.  This man is my age, single like me at that time.  He told me he had two kids, never saw one. 

One day he saw me walking down towards the bus stop and insisted to give me a lift.  I agreed.  I could have said that it was a big mistake but at the same time I really found out who his man was......searching for a good time.

He told me that he had a sunburn putting  up his fence and asked me if I wanted to rub his back.  I responded «are you serious???»   It never happened and after that I just avoided him at all costs.  I don't look his way or at him.   

In winter I would never go out to shovle my driveway when he was doing his.

After so many years, he still tries to talk to me or just to say hi.  All this is to say that I know he is not a dangerous man to be afraid of.  He is not home often since he retired, plays golf.  He is the type to mingle with all his close neighbours, looking for friends.

This reminds me of Forest Gump and his box of chocolates:   you never know what your're going to get, as neighbours that is.

[Hepatica]

Concerned One, I feel so bad for you. It's is horrible that the construction is so bad that you can hear those things. Farting!! My God! And you've done what you can if you've already addressed it. Arg. The guy doesn't seem to care and that would upset me greatly.

I think when we grow up with the experience of loud noises, things dropping, doors slamming, insensitive noises when we're sleeping etc, it can really trigger flashbacks.

I can't think of anything to say other than what you've done - unless you can communicate with the landlord really diplomatically and say what exactly you are hearing. If both the guy and landlord don't take care of it, maybe earplugs?

Your home should be your refuge. I totally get why this is bothering you.

Can you move?

[Concerned One]

Concerned One, I feel so bad for you. It's is horrible that the construction is so bad that you can hear those things. Farting!! My God! And you've done what you can if you've already addressed it. Arg. The guy doesn't seem to care and that would upset me greatly.

I think when we grow up with the experience of loud noises, things dropping, doors slamming, insensitive noises when we're sleeping etc, it can really trigger flashbacks.

I can't think of anything to say other than what you've done - unless you can communicate with the landlord really diplomatically and say what exactly you are hearing. If both the guy and landlord don't take care of it, maybe earplugs?

Your home should be your refuge. I totally get why this is bothering you.

Can you move?

I think I might have to. I don't think this is a case of just being triggered. I don't think my emotions are wrong. I think they're telling me to get out.

Last night at about 1am in the morning he was slamming doors and dropping heavy things on my ceiling. I wouldn't do that at 1 in the afternoon let alone in the morning.

I think I'm going to request to leave otherwise I'll be a nervous wreck.

[clara]

I have no doubt he's doing it deliberately and it's not on you to try to figure him out.  He's escalating for some reason, and that's a red flag.  It's a shame people like this are out there, but they are, and it would be nice if we could all just learn to handle such situations by changing our responses,  but ridiculous is ridiculous.  And this is ridiculous.   I've dealt with neighbors like this, and rather than spend time and energy trying to cope, or find a way to deal etc. I'd rather put that same energy and time in moving somewhere where I don't have to put up with such behavior.  In his mind, he may feel like he's "won" if he gets you to move, but that doesn't automatically mean you've lost.  You're just being self-protective and doing what it takes to achieve that.

[Concerned One]

I have no doubt he's doing it deliberately and it's not on you to try to figure him out.  He's escalating for some reason, and that's a red flag.  It's a shame people like this are out there, but they are, and it would be nice if we could all just learn to handle such situations by changing our responses,  but ridiculous is ridiculous.  And this is ridiculous.   I've dealt with neighbors like this, and rather than spend time and energy trying to cope, or find a way to deal etc. I'd rather put that same energy and time in moving somewhere where I don't have to put up with such behavior.  In his mind, he may feel like he's "won" if he gets you to move, but that doesn't automatically mean you've lost.  You're just being self-protective and doing what it takes to achieve that.

The thing is, Clara, I moved in here to get away from the last person who was prone to angry outbursts and who was highly triggering me.

I know with her it was nothing personal but that didn't make living there any less stressful.

So here I am again, in a triggering situation. Who knows if I were to move again if I weren't to find someone even worse living above or below me.

I think it is about time I addressed whatever is being triggered inside me. Fear mainly.

If I'm honest, in the main I don't hear a peep from this guy. Now and again I'll hear him fart. Or his tv will be on loud in the evening and every now and then in the middle of the night he'll decide that that is the best time to be doing whatever the hell he is doing that requires doors to be slammed and heavy objects to be dropped.

I grew up in a household where I was always being provoked one way or another or not made to feel safe. But I'm not a child any more. I think this a perfect opportunity to address this age old response I'm feeling.

x

[Concerned One]

Weird thing happened today. I've often likened this fight/flight my neighbour triggers inside me to a fire alarm.

Well this evening the communal fire alarm did go off today. And it was only my neighbour and me around to fix it.

We worked together trying to get this thing to stop.

Somewhere along the line he asked if I worked nights to which I told him not to worry about whatever he's doing up there as it's fine.

Now it's not fine but I said it was. Totally incongruent and inauthentic but I didn't want to look like some whiner who interfere in other people's lives (even though that's what I'm doing online to a bunch of strangers lol).

Anyway this fire alarm seemed to break the ice a little and we finally got it to stop in the end.

I'm still trying to figure out how to live authentically.

[Concerned One]

Would admitting I'm a whiner who likes to interfere in other people's lives be more authentic perhaps? Is that who I am? I really don't want to be that person...