The Family System of Dysfunction (also on subject of Distancing)

[Hepatica]

I spent a large part of the day yesterday writing a letter to my uNPD sister with no intention of sending it (bc I know very well it would and could be used against me) but I found that it shed some light on something I've never really thought about.

For the first time I made a list of every single family member on my father's side, the very dysfunctional side of the family, the one that hungers for drama, spin, punishment, pettiness and conflict, and as I listed them I noted all the specifics of dysfunction ie. jail time, cyclical baiting and conflict seeking, hoarding, mental breakdown and time in hospital, stealing, fighting instead of working things out. I noted every aunt and uncle and all of their children and I noticed a very interesting thing.

The cousins in my family who moved away - there are five of them. Not saying they have found utopia, but each one of these cousins is healthier, happier and does not engage in conflict, have healthy partnerships and look more vibrant and healthy, weight wise, age wise, and have had no major physical illnesses.

The cousins who have stayed close to the malignant parent - meaning daily contact - have had mental breakdowns, cancer and severe illnesses such as arthritis and fibromyalgia. Some of them have remained partnerless. One committed suicide.

I moved back after being away for 10 years and I know I got a brand new world view for the better when I was away. I learned to be healthier. I saw and engaged with people who were nothing like my family, happy, decent people that made me realize there is something better in the world than a family that runs itself down. Funny enough, on return to the city I grew up in, where my dysfunctional FOO live, I immediately dealt with severe depression and significant downs every time I engaged with my FOO. (Currently implementing NC.)

The stress these people cause is real. I cannot see it any different now. I read the list to my husband who knows everybody and he agreed. The cousins who are more than an hour away are visibly healthier. I know they can put on a mask, but I also know they have not engaged in any conflict with the old FOO since they left and they honestly just look better and have fared better illness wise.

[lotusblume]

Thanks for sharing that! It's really interesting and a great idea to do the family tree of dysfunction.

I have also studied the dynamics of my FOO and extended family to some extent, but I'm sure if I wrote it all out I would find even more value in studying the family tree.

I find the further away you are, the more you begin to see how the dysfunction trickles out, and you take notice of cousins who have been the "ones that got away".

I find that realizing the whole tree is suffering from interlinking dysfunction helps to alleviate guilt and denial about specific family members when I gaslight myself (aka, "maybe my mom isn't that bad!... oh yeah, but my grandmother, her siblings, her father, etc etc...). It allows you to let it more truth.

[BettyGray]

What a healthy exercise for you! It sounds highly productive and, hopefully,  will inspire others to do the same. I think one of the things many of us realize on this forum is how similarly the PD patterns and personalities are in our dysfunctional families. Separating the emotion and looking at the situation and it's layers analytically  can take some sting out of our pain.

I experienced the same. Part of the reason I moved away from my family (to a different part of the country) was because I knew staying would drag me to a dark place. I was aware of the severe dysfunction, but only once I was gone for awhile did I see the dysfunction ruin my siblings'  lives. That was 25 years ago.

I left, started a wonderful career, grew as a person (with the help of a few therapists), married a marvelous man, etc. When I left, my siblings were at least trying to live their own lives. Year after year DH  and I would oblige a holiday visit. Over 2 decades, I watched as each of them grew more miserable, self-destructive and overly attached to my Nparents. It was incredibly sad. They morphed into people I didn't know.

Brother 1: Golden child. Blew up his marriage, didn't pay alimony, never had a real job, became a raging alcoholic & drug addict. Accrued gambling debts which resulted in threats to his life. Always in crisis. My parents bailed him out time and time again. They never encouraged rehab or therapy. He dissentigrated into a wisp of a person.  He regressed to the point of my mother accompanying him to Dr. appointments. She cleans his apartment, does his laundry, etc. Divorced 20 years ago, he hasn't had a relationship since. Dear mother wouldn't allow it. He is closing in on 60 with nothing to show for it. He is in poor health and looks at least 15 years older than he should. It was heartbreaking to see him go from an enthusiastic, intelligent, optimistic young adult to...this.

Brother 2: Tried moving away, pursuing a career, but always returned home. He saw 3 marriages fall apart and is one of the most bitter people on the planet. Dead end job, no relationship, deeply in debt, has had cancer more than once. But Dear mother was always there to welcome him back into her clutches. But at least he held down a job.

Sister: Failed relationship after failed relationship. None lasted very long and the demise was never, ever her fault. All of her  significant others were  "crazy" & "needed therapy". In reality she was controlling, manipulative and immature. Never married or had a serious relationship. Saddled with debt.

She did move away briefly, but couldn't handle being away from Dear Mother, so she moved back. They can cation with my together, even sleeping in the same bed. They spend weekends together shopping, having brunch, seeing movies. And she is soooo unhappy. Not physically healthy either.

My life went in one direction and theirs stood still. The resentment became palpable. Spending time with them was incredibly depressing, trying and draining. I felt sorry for them. Somehow they never managed to see the reasons for their miserable lives or take responsibility for improving them. 

I haven't seen or talked to any of them for 5 years. I tried to stay in touch, long distance, for 20 years. They became strangers to me. Until I went NC, I had no idea how my life could improve by finally cutting the cord altogether. I had to give up on them, as their reality separated from mine. The tug of war trying to maintain relationships that weren't reciprocal was literally making me sick. I can't imagine their lives have turned around. In fact, I assume they're more miserable than ever.

I hope by moving close to your FOO again doesn't become destructive to you.  Sounds like you're healthy and rational. You've learned you can't save them, only yourself. Good for you.

[Hepatica]

LIz1018, thank you for your amazing example. Man oh man, I feel like I should go back to school and write a masters on this. Your story is exactly what I wondering about. What happens when you detach? What happens to those who do not? Can we get clear data on this?

I am so happy for you that you got away. I know what that is like, partly, as I moved to the other side of the country for ten years. It broke me out of the pattern of old dysfunction and I too found an amazing therapist there and a kind, compassionate husband.

But now we are back, right in the freaking cortex of the dark void and I cannot figure out my next move. I am NC but the nearness of them is palpable and my UNPD father shows up uninvited. This conundrum is hard as we cannot really leave until my husband retires. It's not a long wait, but I feel very restless and almost an urgency, like every days of my life is precious now and I have to not live in fear like this.

You inspire me because I totally understand what you are saying. It gives me hope to know that other people have gotten out.

[Serendipity12]

Hepatica your point about illness and the toxicity of pd parents and family systems really strikes a chord. Ages ago I posted on this after my own experiences - I'll copy it in here:
'YES , and there is evidence of health problems caused by this kind of stress and not only autoimmune. In my case, and also I believe the case of my two sisters, the disease triggered was cancer (three different forms, so not genetically linked). Reading 'When the Body Says No' by Gabor Mate PhD, all the pieces of the puzzle fell into place.  A large portion of this book is devoted to autoimmune diseases following childhood abuse or neglect, another large portion to the various cancers linked to this one of which was melanoma, (which is what I experienced) and another was breast cancer (my sis). I truly believe my NPDm is as toxic to health as asbestos!'
Really makes you think....

[blacksheep7]

LIz1018, thank you for your amazing example. Man oh man, I feel like I should go back to school and write a masters on this. Your story is exactly what I wondering about. What happens when you detach? What happens to those who do not? Can we get clear data on this?

I am so happy for you that you got away. I know what that is like, partly, as I moved to the other side of the country for ten years. It broke me out of the pattern of old dysfunction and I too found an amazing therapist there and a kind, compassionate husband.

But now we are back, right in the freaking cortex of the dark void and I cannot figure out my next move. I am NC but the nearness of them is palpable and my UNPD father shows up uninvited. This conundrum is hard as we cannot really leave until my husband retires. It's not a long wait, but I feel very restless and almost an urgency, like every days of my life is precious now and I have to not live in fear like this.

You inspire me because I totally understand what you are saying. It gives me hope to know that other people have gotten out.

[/b]

Great post  indeed Hepatica. Hopefully it might inspire others.   If nc is not in view for some, boundaries then are sometimes necessary for our own good health. Pd parents and/or Foo in our case are big stress factors which keep on piling up with the years.  At some point it explodes unless you are heavily medicated.

I have been nc for a second and last time 3yrs now with NM,  6 yrs total. Foo followed, they stopped contacting me.  I didn't answer to my sis email, an article on how to forgive.....

I had to battle many physical/health illnesses due to mental stress and have been hospitalized.   I can go go on just on the anxiety and panic attacks when NF was alive. The migraines.  The anxiety had stopped at some point and came right back when NF died, I was taking care of NM.  I had a haha moment when it came back and the rest is history.

Now, I have healed my mental state and am doing Much better!   Why, because they are not in my life.  I will hear some stories, not very often which is ok with me.  It just reminds me they are still in that crazy dysfunction in keeping their roles for NM.

We are the evidence.

[Hepatica]

Bravo blacksheep7!!!!!

Big hug from afar.

We are the evidence.

Love that. It's so true.

Since I left a very toxic work environment and have now distanced from the cult of my disordered family system, all former pain has resolved. I spent a year not able to walk due to back and neck pain a few years ago. ALL GONE.

We are the evidence indeed.

[Andeza]

You've drawn my attention back to the dysfunction of my own FOO. Several of my cousins have managed to break the cycle... but as they approach their 40s, they have no children. I think that instinctively, if not intellectually, they know that having children will only cement the cycle if they themselves are not healed.

There are mental health issues, past physical abuse, current dysfunction, paranoia, alcoholism, cancers of various types, Parkinson's, divorces, broken families, suicides and attempts, teenage children who are already showing signs that the cycle will continue... Such a sad mess.

I have distanced myself from most of it, and a number of the behaviors listed have mellowed out as the person dealing with them has aged. Many of my aunts and uncles are up in their 60s now and simply don't have the energy to carry on with their dysfunctional habits, or a bout with cancer has "straightened them up."

As for myself, when I was pregnant I showed possible thyroid malfunction, but it did not require medication after delivery. However, some anxiety issues I'm having now 1.5 years later make me wonder, especially since the largest single stressor in my life is now no longer a part of the picture (NC). I'll be checking up on it soon, my thyroid, and we'll see what's going on there. Hesitate to change anything though... its such a delicate thing the endocrine system, with so much power to sway our moods one way or the other with only the slightest fluctuations.

[Hilltop]

Wow you have certainly opened my eyes.  My two cousins on my mum's side are both divorced.  My aunt and uncle are not healthy. 

I was the one to stay near my parents and I am currently suffering from an autoimmune disease, it runs down my mother's side of the family, the dysfunctional side.  I have stress that I haven't been able to get rid of although when I think about it there is no reason for my stress.  I see so clearly it is my family and the fact that I haven't dealt with those negative emotions.

My sister the GC moved 6 hours away and comes in fleetingly once a year or every 2nd year.  She seems to be fairing well, her own family seems to be happy.  I often wondered if she moved away for that one reason and now I think she might have.

I have a lot to think about.  This year I greatly reduced contact with my parents.  A text once a month however I am now thinking I might need to seriously think about giving myself some real space.  More than anything I think I need to resolve these negative emotions however you are spot on with your assumption.  I certainly don't want to inflame my autoimmune disease anymore, it has been horrendous.

[qcdlvl]

I think that, in addition to the harm done by proximity to toxic relatives, and the protection  offered by distance, there's often also an element of self-selection at work - those who are working on themselves, trying to be healthy, etc naturally drift away from a dysfunctional family system and/or actively seek to move away. Those who are in denial or embrace the dysfunction or are part of the root cause of the dysfunction wouldn't dream of leaving, or leave only to jump from the frying pan into the fire (find themselves or create another dysfunctional system to join).
I've kind of seen all of this at work with my wife's relatives - though her FOO isn't as bad as some that have been discussed on these boards, they're still pretty dysfunctional. A decade or so ago, SIL and a cousin's son they grew up with would've seemed far more promising than my wife, with SIL in college and the cousin's son doing well in HS, while my now wife (basically the family's fixer/rescuer) worked retail. But my SIL is an example of someone not leaving (she always talked the talk but never walked the walk) and the cousin's son is an example of someone jumping from the frying pan into the fire, while my wife is an example of someone actually leaving. So SIL still lives with MIL and is a Debbie Downer (think Marvin from Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy) and seems unable to cope with simple home maintenance (like a little DIY for a leaky sink or looking up the cost of DIY stuff online) and she and MIL struggle to stand on their own two feet financially. SIL's career doesn't seem to be going anywhere (she regrets choosing the wrong major, but that was her choice alone) and AFAIK she's been single for a while. The cousin's son left but is a HS dropout who can't hold down a job, got a girl pregnant and lives with his ILs (i.e. joined another family system that seems pretty dysfunctional also).

[M0009803]

I have looked into this sort of thing previously because something always puzzled me:

1. Our mother was ok while we were small children and our health was just about perfect.

2. She become emotionally abusive when we were teenagers, and a short time thereafter health problems started to manifest in my older sister (excema), and younger sister (Lupus).

The really crappy part of this is that the situation gets even more dysfunctional once the children start getting sick.  This is primarily because they need a lot of medical and financial resources, which ramps up the abusive behavior and guilt trips from the PD parent.  This then makes the children fall deeper into the hole of dependency usually.

We are starting to see more research done now when it comes to studying the link between pyschological stressors, and auto-immune diseases.    And from some of the research I have read, emotional abuse is a driver of this, and can set auto-immune problems off if you are susceptible.

Link to a Lupus link note.

https://www.lupus.org/news/childhood-abuse-may-increase-risk-of-lupus-in-later-years#

[M0009803]

I have also thought about writing to my younger sister explaining my thoughts on this matter.

While I feel that my older sister is too far gone (she is toxic just like my mother), my younger sister still has a chance to follow a healthier path if she limits contact (this can only really happen if she develops a better understanding of her situation).

Problem is that it is likely that writing to her about this will just generate a defensive response.  She would most likely forward all communications to my mother (plus sister), who would then blow up the situation.

It's a shitty situation because you feel powerless.  The damage is being done but you can't stop it.