My dad was abusive. Does he have a PD?

Started by DesertRose, February 16, 2021, 04:49:30 AM

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DesertRose

It has taken me many years to really admit to myself how abusive my dad was. I am now grown up and living far away from him with my own family. For many years there was a part of me that wanted to minimise the abuse and "go to sleep" to it (denial?). I wanted to cherish and hold on to the parts of the father-daughter relationship that seemed adequate or good enough because I needed a dad in my life, especially as a child and young person. My dad had a nice, kind and caring side, a sneaky and manipulative side (which usually presented as caring or needy or wounded and rarely as rage), and an outright physically aggressive yelling and screaming side. I wanted to believe that the kind and caring side was my real dad, and the other sides were just occasional glitches and no one is perfect. I wanted to believe that dad really cared about me because he acted sweet and nurturing and caring and told stories and played imaginative games and told me he believed in me. He told me to never give up. He told me regularly that he had faith in me and that I was a fighter. He was a good encourager. He spent time teaching my sibling and me about topics (that interested him or that he thought were good for us). He was interested in us.

And yet there were the other behaviours that I am "waking up" to now that I am and adult safely in my own home, far away. Despite the "caring side", his love was inconsistent and his behaviour showed me that his love was not reliable. He molested me when I was 5 or 6 (I have two clear memories) and touched my chest when I was in my early teens and asleep and very ill (I became conscious and was able to turnover). He made comments about my body that made me feel sick. When my elementary school started showing videos to the children about how to watch out for child molesters and good touch / bad touch, dad started home schooling us (it took me many years to see the connection there but I remember him freaking out about the videos and coming to take me out of the classroom). He denied me opportunities to go to high school, he moved us to a small town where I had fewer opportunities and when I was offered a college scholarship and qualified for our state's scholarship program as well, dad told me I really needed to stay home and not go, and continue to home school higher education. As stupid as this probably sounds, you have to understand I was 17/18 at this time, was extremely isolated and hadn't been able to go to high school and was home schooled. Dad used my faith in God to manipulate me saying it was God's will for me to honour my parents and stay home. While I was there, he tried to groom me for further sexual abuse. He even said that he wanted another baby and mom was too old to have one (!) among other things like trying to get me to sit close to him.  I was very naive and had forgotten the earlier abuse, but I was old enough and aware enough and socialised enough to know this was very weird. My mom (who was sadly an enabler in many ways bc she was so beaten down by his physical and verbal abuse of her) read an article on incest and it prompted her to talk to me about what she has learned about grooming. This was enough for me to be able to protect myself and call out my dad's behaviour. I would say "no way dad, that's inappropriate, get affection from your wife" and he would laugh it off but at least I was able to generally stay safe. Then he tried to expose himself to me which terrified me. I was at the end of a long hallway when it happened and I was busy cooking, so I pretended not to see and looked away very quickly - terrified and disgusted. I became obsessed with modesty and started to develop an eating disorder (I thought I was fasting for spiritual purposes but I'm sure that's not what it was). I absolutely felt trapped in my parents house, but I began talking to other people outside of the closed system and stopped being so loyal to my parents. I began to see that I didn't need to stay with my parents to honour God and that there were different views that weren't so twisted as my dad's view. Some adults I spoke to said "just get out" but it wasn't so simple and they didn't comprehend that. I had a belief system which my dad had encouraged and I had to break through that to even reach the point where I felt it wouldn't be "sin" to make a plan to leave.

I later learned more about my dad's abuse of my mom. He verbally abused her constantly, calling her demeaning names and generally acting like she was stupid. But apparently he also pushed her, threw things at her head, etc. And she didn't even know she could call the police. She told me that never occurred to her.

To make a long story short, my parents gave my younger sibling every opportunity to go to college / university. When we dropped him off, the ruse was up for me. I was angry that I, as the girl, was treated so differently when I was just as able. I re-took my SATs and applied and was accepted to a university far away and was able to escape my dad's house through student loans. (Dad had undermined my other opportunities to gain independence by continually asking for all and any money I earned from jobs I had, and even putting debt on my credit cards).

I had to submit my college application secretly bc my dad was trying to interfere. I had to get past the point where I thought it was "God's will" to always obey him as he said. I had other people around me that I had begin to confide in to help me see things differently.

After escaping, I can never stay at his house again. The years I spent after age 17/18 when he was trying to groom me were the worst. Even now it makes me sick.

I don't know what PD he has. I think it might be borderline? It literally taken until well into my adult life to even be willing to now start to think about it all.

Hepatica

DesertRose,

I can tell how much you are struggling to understand how a person can have good qualities and toxic, abusive qualities. I think most of us here struggle with that, and it keeps us very foggy. You may never know what your father has, but from your experience, it is very clear that your father took advantage of you. He groomed you. Pedophiles groom their victims by being warm, attentive and caring. They create confusion right from the beginning. They attempt to fool a victim into trusting them and because children are naturally trusting they are vulnerable.

A pedophile is simply defined as a "person who is sexually attracted to children." That's it. Your father fits that criteria.

The first thing to do is take any shame you are feeling and put it where it deserves. It goes on your father. He did not just make one mistake. He spent years doing inappropriate sexual things and doing everything to control you. The shame goes on him. He was the adult. He was meant to keep his child safe. He did not do that. He failed in all respects.

Try not to get caught up on what he is, in terms of personality disorder. It doesn't really matter. We know he was an abuser. He was selfish. He was not a safe person.

Don't doubt that. Be very certain about it.

From there attend to the places in you that are confused and betrayed. If you ever feel shame, put it back onto him. If you are not seeing a therapist,, I think it would do the world of good for you to get these stories out to a safe person who will help you heal from them.

I am so so sorry that he did this. It was terribly wrong. You deserve to heal and live a peaceful life. I am relieved that you have already taken steps to get away from him and take a good look at what you need to do to recover.
"There is a place in you where you have never been wounded, where there's
still a sureness in you, where there's a seamlessness in you, and where
there is a confidence and tranquility." John O'Donohue

Maxtrem

I'm really sorry that you went through all this. I'm far from an expert, but I've already read an article by a psychiatrist who said that the only reason a pedophile would molest his own children is because he is also a malignant narcissist.   

DesertRose

#3
Dear Hepatica,

Thank you so much for your very thoughtful and empathetic reply. I have read it several times and have felt so affirmed. You are right that it would be good to see a therapist to cover all of this thoroughly and focus on healing. I will aim to do that as soon as I can.

What you say about being kept "foggy" by the mix of PD behaviours with what appear to be "nice, warm, caring" behaviours is spot on. Writing about the abuse I suffered at my dad's hands is hard and yet it feels like such a relief to write about it now and to receive replies that are so affirming. It's taken so many years to get to this point. For the longest time there has been so much cognitive dissonance. In my early 20s I could not deny the fact that he had crossed boundaries in things he said, ways he behaved, comments that "tested the waters" and grooming behaviours. Just like no amount of "charity work" and good works can make up for a chosen evil lifestyle, so no amount of fulfilling the dad role, putting a roof over my head, reading me stories, taking me to church or to museums, etc can make up for my dad's evil choices.

The way he treated me in general seemed charming and gentle, so it was so hard to see that he could be so evil and deceitful when his apparent baseline demeanour was charming and he was all manners and etiquette and charm in social settings. My family was said to be "the perfect family" by so many. I knew of course this was not true, but I have been hesitant to completely write my dad off. That's so hard to do - and yet truth be told I don't feel safe around him. At a gut level I feel he is creepy and I sense the danger. And despite his baseline of sweetness towards me, he was horrible to my mom. If I were to find him a narcissist it would be by looking at his behaviour with her.  It was evident there.

Saying he is a pedophile and deliberately evil is so hard to do because perhaps it means the rest of his treatment of me was not genuine but was self motivated and a show. It means I cannot hold on to the parts of dad I felt were good. I have to toss the entire notion of dad. I'm still in occasional contact by phone with both of my parents, who are still together. My mom knows about the molestation and is still with him. I don't think she feels she can leave and she hasn't addressed it with him. It's hard to cut parents off - living very far away helps me feel safe.

Thank you again so much for listening.

DesertRose

Quote from: Maxtrem on February 16, 2021, 04:01:14 PM
I'm really sorry that you went through all this. I'm far from an expert, but I've already read an article by a psychiatrist who said that the only reason a pedophile would molest his own children is because he is also a malignant narcissist.   

Dear Maxtrem,

This is very helpful and makes sense. I keep wanting to empathise with my dad and think he must have been confuse or hurting or depressed or having some psychotic break due to stress. But he did know better, there is no way around it. He chose evil and put his wicked desires above what was best for me and the family he was supposed to love. The more I think about how the blame belongs on him, and stop trying to empathise with him, the better I actually feel.

DesertRose

Just thinking about this more in general, I keep mentioning how my dad seemed warm and caring towards me. But from an early age I was very aware of his explosive rage side. I stayed generally well within the lines and was very obedient. I was a people pleaser in general and have hated conflict (I still hate conflict) and dread rocking the boat. Only when pushed to a certain limit, after very high tolerance and after acting like everything is fine, would I actually finally rock the boat. For things that I saw as very clearly wrong or evil, I have usually have been very willing to take a stand or to at least walk away. But with an explosive, rage filled dad who obviously must have used his anger to control our family, I was a master of avoiding conflict. I vary rarely was the target of his irrational rages. So I remember him as sweet, but part of that may have been because I played my part of being the obedient daughter due to being afraid of him. He would throw things - esp at my mom - and generally take his anger out on the family when his world wasn't the way he wanted it. He actually said explosive rages helped him feel relief (which makes no sense to me!!).

Hepatica

The crazy making things about abusive, toxic, disordered people, I find, is that they often can be incredibly charming. Both my sister and my father are ultra charming. Both have done caring and warm deeds. My father used to be at the top of his profession and well known in the community I grew up in. He was funny and smart and likeable.

These things are really challenging for me at times. How do I reconcile that my father would come home and smack his two daughters around? I think much of it was because he got narcissistic supply when he was out in the community, wheeling and dealing, getting pats on the back about his work. He got tons of attention and narcissists love that and need it. When he came home, we the family were merely his mask of normalcy. He shut the door and his temper flared, his patience was thin. Many times he hit his two little girls, hard, in the faces. It makes me so sad and angry writing that. He gave his best to others, and his worst to us.

But at his funeral he will be remembered as a high standing member of the community. And I will remember the entire man.

What I am finally beginning to realize is people can be a myriad of things but with disordered people there is a very dark side. There is manipulation, masks, dark, hidden behaviour that is ultimately selfish that ranges from lying, stealing, emotional abuse, physical and sexual abuse. And they can hide their dark side very well.

Often the children are the ones who have seen it all. We know.

But the key in what you say is how you feel. That is such an important thing to validate and listen to. If you feel unsafe, listen to that. I feel very unsafe with my father and I know why. He can change in an instant and he is not a safe person to be around.

First thing after we get away from abusers is we get ourselves to safety. Then we begin to educate ourselves and find support. And we work on undoing all the damage. It takes times. But there is so much awareness and support out there now.

I think it's a wonderful first step that you are sharing what happened in a safe place. This will will be the first step in letting the light in on an experience that was not your fault. Like all of us here, you merely had the misfortune in growing up with someone who had a dangerous personality.
"There is a place in you where you have never been wounded, where there's
still a sureness in you, where there's a seamlessness in you, and where
there is a confidence and tranquility." John O'Donohue

DesertRose

#7
Quote from: Hepatica on February 17, 2021, 08:24:30 AM
The crazy making things about abusive, toxic, disordered people, I find, is that they often can be incredibly charming. Both my sister and my father are ultra charming. Both have done caring and warm deeds. My father used to be at the top of his profession and well known in the community I grew up in. He was funny and smart and likeable.

These things are really challenging for me at times. How do I reconcile that my father would come home and smack his two daughters around? I think much of it was because he got narcissistic supply when he was out in the community, wheeling and dealing, getting pats on the back about his work. He got tons of attention and narcissists love that and need it. When he came home, we the family were merely his mask of normalcy. He shut the door and his temper flared, his patience was thin. Many times he hit his two little girls, hard, in the faces. It makes me so sad and angry writing that. He gave his best to others, and his worst to us.

But at his funeral he will be remembered as a high standing member of the community. And I will remember the entire man.

What I am finally beginning to realize is people can be a myriad of things but with disordered people there is a very dark side. There is manipulation, masks, dark, hidden behaviour that is ultimately selfish that ranges from lying, stealing, emotional abuse, physical and sexual abuse. And they can hide their dark side very well.

Often the children are the ones who have seen it all. We know.

But the key in what you say is how you feel. That is such an important thing to validate and listen to. If you feel unsafe, listen to that. I feel very unsafe with my father and I know why. He can change in an instant and he is not a safe person to be around.

First thing after we get away from abusers is we get ourselves to safety. Then we begin to educate ourselves and find support. And we work on undoing all the damage. It takes times. But there is so much awareness and support out there now.

I think it's a wonderful first step that you are sharing what happened in a safe place. This will will be the first step in letting the light in on an experience that was not your fault. Like all of us here, you merely had the misfortune in growing up with someone who had a dangerous personality.

Hepatica, yes! I see what you mean about the many sides. The social graces, charm, humour - this is the "face" most people see. They don't see the rage-oholic or the predator.

I can now say my dad did evil and he knew what he did was evil. Maybe he minimised it or justified it to himself. He stopped the childhood molestations when he started going to church, though, and he was "good" for a number of years - which gave me a number of years of feeling safer at home from about age 6/7 to age 13/14 - (although I never felt completely safe and had trouble sleeping literally until I left home). So that shows me he knew it was wrong. Why would he want to pull me out of school when they showed the molestation video? He used to make a huge show about teaching me to watch out for strangers and "child molesters" if you can believe that. So of course he knows what he did was evil and did not try to make it right. Maybe he thinks I don't remember? But the older episodes of abuse, attempts, and grooming would be obviously within memory and he hasn't taken ownership of the behaviour.

What's still hard is how to frame my good memories of him, which do exist. I think I was the Golden Child and the place where most of my dad's good affection went. I didn't ask for that or want it. I wanted him to love my mom - that was my idea of a safe and happy home. He treated my mom like garbage instead, calling her awful names like nitwit and old hag when we were at home. Once when she said "don't call me names" he threw a metal object at her. He didn't really connect with my brother the way my brother wanted him to although he did support his athletics and his academic endeavours. His being there for me in a way that seemed sincere when I faced disappointments. Some days seemed like happy days, and dad always enjoyed philosophical conversations and deep (albeit non personal) thoughts. He loved to talk about ideas and analyse things and we would do this as a family.

As I write about this, though, it always felt everything was dependent on his mood and we were oppressed.

He seems gifted in his ability to sense people and analyse their emotions. He is perceptive and intelligent - but he definitely had a covert incest vibe going on in his interaction with me - favouring trying to "connect" with me in conversation in a companionship way over and above my mom. He focussed on what he wanted for my life rather than what was best for me. I was shown my value was in not rocking the boat and in doing what he wanted. He tried to use my faith in God to control me but as I matured and learned more it was ultimately my faith that gave me the confidence to make a plan and get out.