G from the FOG

[Empie2204]

I was brought up in the atmosphere where material things and hard working are necessary but are surely not on top of everything. We had family celebrations, vacations, fun and lots of love.
My H´s FOO put material things and hard work on top of all tops. If there ever has been a workaholic family, it was this one! There were no birthday celebrations, Christmas and Easter were celebrated because it is a proper thing to do. Out of duty.
During my marriage both my H and me contributed a lot to our home. We were a schoolbook example of how FOO influences the mindset. We both worked and cared for our family. On two completely different levels.
What bothers me and does not allow guilt to go away is the extent and intensity with which my H contributed to our material wellbeing and I dared to leave him. (Hmmmm...)
Though I am a hardworking person, too, I still carry that guilt of leaving such a diligent person.
My mind knows that this is almost a martyrdom and hard to achieve for a normal person. Besides, WHY would anybody be so exhaustingly devoted?
Does anyone else know such kind of guilt?

[Hepatica]

Maybe it has to do with a world view that workaholism is considered a virtue? I no longer believe that. It is merely a ploy of capitalism, something that often makes a few rich people, richer,  and meanwhile millions of lives go on by tired, overworked and soul starved.  I think slowing down is a virtue and has the compassionate aspect of caring about our selves and this one earth we live on.

Perhaps look at your H's and his FOO and ask yourself, are they truly content and happy and spiritually fulfilled? I am with you. I do not believe material things and hard work are everything. Enjoying the simple aspects of life that cost nothing, like walking with a good friend, having tea, laughing, dancing, doing something nice for a neighbour, finding a creative outlet are keys to a happier and balanced life. And when you get old and look back, you'll wish you did far more of those things.

[Empie2204]

Thank you Hepatica for your answer and viewpoint. It helps a lot to see that some "normal" things are not normal at all.
You are right, my h and his FOO are not content, happy or fulfilled.
If I only could, I would like to abolish the verb "must" 
I am learning to live a more relaxed life and trying to get rid of some bad habits.

[Oscen]

Agree that workaholism as a virtue is a myth perpetuated by capitalism.

Yes, diligence is necessary for a happy, healthy life, but like every other quality, must be applied with discernment and balance or it is no longer a virtue but a vice.
Why is only diligence that results in material gains valued as valid? Sounds like a coping strategy to avoid the harder work of relationships.
What about the diligence the family deserves, to have their emotional needs for connection, or fun, or support met?
We need a whole lot more than a roof over our heads and food on the table to grow up into healthy, happy adults.

[Empie2204]

Hi Oscen!
I read your post with a smile: because I´m only human I always feel good when someone shares my opinion and confirms I´m not alone in my thinking.
Thank you!
What strikes me about overly materialistic viewpoint is that people who support it expect affection and gratitude as an exchange for, let´s say, a luxurious house or a car...
You know: "I booked a vacation in xyz resort and you are unhappy!"

The person speaking that, forgets that small, everyday things and attitudes create happiness. Controlling, shouting, constant complaining about this and that are normal for them, but they kill life and love around!

[1footouttadefog]

So what you describe is a spouse set on showing love with a specific love language and refusing to try another one that matches the love language of the recipient.

As if they are saying "I show love through work and refuse to try another, even though you clearly need another.  I will ramp up the work until you come my way, and BTW, feel guilty that you don't receive my work as love.  And now since I get narc supply from being a work ahololic, I will never stop, and your love is not enough to change me"

[Empie2204]

So what you describe is a spouse set on showing love with a specific love language and refusing to try another one that matches the love language of the recipient.

As if they are saying "I show love through work and refuse to try another, even though you clearly need another.  I will ramp up the work until you come my way, and BTW, feel guilty that you don't receive my work as love.  And now since I get narc supply from being a work ahololic, I will never stop, and your love is not enough to change me"

[SonofThunder]

Hello Empie,

I read your original post on this thread and didn't understand the background story which lends support to your comments and questions about hard work, providing, material benefit and guilt regarding.  It was helpful for me to go back to your oldest 2019 posts where it seems you returned to Out of the FOG to share in this fellowship once again. Btw, I consider myself a hsp, but not sure if by nature or by PDnurture, as I grew up with a uPDfather and now 30 years with a uPDwife.  But the hsp qualities are indeed a resulting gift that can wreak both benefit of insight and introspect but also havoc on my own mind, with self doubt and self critique. 

I wonder if you would also benefit, when facing your own high-radar of introspective guilt, to go back to your oldest 2019 posts and refresh yourself.  I would think it could be nice to also have your posts when you were here prior.  We may have had prior discussion at that time as well.  Could the admins, using a provided email address in private, tell you your prior screen name to possibly locate your much older posts, for you to refresh yourself?  Not sure how long Out of the FOG keeps records. 

Back to your thread;  I grew up in an entrepreneurial family where my uNPDfather created a financial empire for himself as a trophy, but it was veiled as provision that must be appreciated and used as control on my nonPD mother and us kids.  My mother began her work for the family biz at 5am and at age 7, us two boys began working in the biz after school and all summer, 6 days a week.  Hard work with a conservative and frugal mindset was the expectation on my mother and us boys, but my uPDfather enjoyed and provided lavish spoils, by building a custom dream home, having his own airplane, motorcycles, shiny Cadillac.  At Christmas, my mother provided a few basic gifts like clothes and a toy or 2, but when she was done giving us the small conservative gifts, my fathers gifts were the last to be opened, and they were expensive.   

Now the reverse is in play, as I have the benefit of success as an entrepreneur and my uPDwife spends for a life of lavishness while I still remain conservative and frugal.  She has always, once my business success took flight, taken positions in various outside employment, but never found satisfaction as she was either under appreciated or, in her own mind, over burdened with her employers expectations.  If we ever divorce, she will depart with 50% of the spoils of the hard work it takes to run a business and I will just have to consider that the price of peace. 

Again, I direct you to visit your older posts and possibly reconsider that all the 'provision' was simply the facade of a never-satisfied need of your uPDh that was used as a guilt-tool on you in your departure as you desired peace more than materialism.  See my first signature verse below as well for some Proverb-ial truth that I remind myself often.   😊

SoT

[JustKeepTrying]

My OCPDxh is a workaholic.  But not because of FOO or any kind of ethic.  He does it to manipulate those around him.

He is of the "Oh, my job my job my job". "If it wasn't for the health insurance . . ."  or "I've got to travel I can't do that". "I have to work to do xyz". And therefore he and his job were a priority in our household.  His work schedule dictated everything - from the grocery run to scheduling vacation.  It was first in our house in all considerations and if I questioned it - or pushed back for say family time, then the guilt would be dripped on me.

I look at his FOO and while there are many PDs on that side - work was not a priority.  It was a hammer used to get what they wanted.

I remember trying to explain that there would be other jobs if he lost this one - other means to make money and pursue a life of more freedom and flexibility.  I even had job openings printed off for each of us.  From his expression you would have thought I was speaking a foreign language.

[Empie2204]

Again, I direct you to visit your older posts and possibly reconsider that all the 'provision' was simply the facade of a never-satisfied need of your uPDh that was used as a guilt-tool on you in your departure as you desired peace more than materialism.  See my first signature verse below as well for some Proverb-ial truth that I remind myself often.   😊

SoT

Hi SoT!

You are right. Thank you.
Anyway I will try to explain: why am I writing now, after I left my marriage. It doesn´t take much to understand that my uPDh was the one who conducted the orchestra and  – although a person with integrity –  I abandoned that integrity and played by his tune, because I loved him. Or at least the impression of that person.
So, the atmosphere was loaded with his self-admiration for all small and big achievements he has made.  Through the years I tried to follow and respect everything he has done in the sense of mutual understanding and support. Then I realized the lack of the component ,,mutual" and that´s when all this diligence and ,,me, me, me" started to bother me a lot.

Examples:
He used to make lunches on Sundays because that was the opportunity for him to eat the meals he really liked (translation: to show me how bad a cook I am).
My entire salary went on our living: bills, food, kids when they were still at school, household necessities. Very little remained for luxuries. Clothes, shoes, cosmetics for me – on sales or in the cheaper price range, because I wanted so. I didn´t buy exactly the worst things, but my opinion is that clothes and the rest are often overrated and we can buy quality things at moderate prices.
Out of his salary he bought beer and bottled water (only for himself), fuel (towards the end kids and I were almost excluded from the ,,car equation"). Naturally, in such a way he could save and usually once a year he invested in something big in our house or garden, or his pride and joy – the lawn. Oh, yes, the second pride of his were the cars. Wen he decided to buy a new car, he bought it. I understand the necessity to drive a safe car, but even to that, there is the limit. Is every 4 years too much or a normality? I am talking about solid quality middle-class family cars.

Even so, everything could be acceptable if not for constant remarks about my inability to save and be a decent wife and housewife and praising of his investments and delicious lunches. I found myself in the trap of a never appreciated woman, whose work is never seen and never done.
He measured not only me, but the rest of the world by his scale. Of course, I know now  this is typical for a PD.
Even now, when I understand much more than at the beginning, I am fighting with the residual sense of guilt for leaving such a ,,wonderful" life and marriage. I know I shouldn´t, but it jumps out of the bush every now and then. I am still so indoctrinated and I need the thorough cleaning up of my past life. Maybe the digging that I am doing now on this forum could help me.

I have recently passed my 60th and in spite of  the  times we´re in and in spite of my  age, I still plan to live some years in the future. To be able to do this, I need the cleaning and calling things by their name.
As for exploring and refreshing my old posts, I am sure they could be useful. Thank you for the idea.

Son ofThunder, the story of your family differs from the story of my h´s family only in the amount of money and goods, but I think the background of such an attitude is the same. And so are the consequences on people involved.

By the way, the content of your first signature verse is applicable to my case.

[Empie2204]

My OCPDxh is a workaholic.  But not because of FOO or any kind of ethic.  He does it to manipulate those around him.

He is of the "Oh, my job my job my job". "If it wasn't for the health insurance . . ."  or "I've got to travel I can't do that". "I have to work to do xyz". And therefore he and his job were a priority in our household.  His work schedule dictated everything - from the grocery run to scheduling vacation.  It was first in our house in all considerations and if I questioned it - or pushed back for say family time, then the guilt would be dripped on me.

Oh, yes, JustKeepTrying - they are workaholics for different reasons and sometimes for the mixture of reasons.
I also know the story of their higher purpose on this planet. We, their partners, might as well work as God´s personal assistants - it wouldn´t matter.
(Forgive me my joke, it wasn´t meant to offend. I think it illustrates well their sense of grandiosity.)

I am really sorry that there are so many of us who are affected by their workaholism.
I personally am aiming to the stage "I don´t care any more", but as you all know, it´s not so easy to achieve.
The day we get there will be a holiday.