When did you notice something was off, and how long did you end up staying?

[Poison Ivy]

I got married at age 23 1/2 and noticed that my husband had some problems very early in the marriage. There were major crises at about year 12 and year 24, and after the second major crisis, the marriage only got worse. We had been married 31 years at the time of the divorce. Our two children had both graduated from college by then.

[ploughthrough2021]

I have been with my uNPDw for 30 years (25 married) with 3 children who are now 15, 17 and 19.  I noticed that my wife had issues from day one but was naive to think that I can fix it.  Things seemed to start going bad about 7 years ago and has been deteriorating quite quickly there after (mainly because I was getting tired of the cyclic abuse).  Now, I am planning on how best to separate.

[blunk]

I was 17 when we met he was 27, and I was 21 when we married. I had seen his anger a few times, and had heard him speak terribly to other people, but it was so infrequent I just thought he was having a bad day. There were also some major control issues regarding my (male) best friend, maybe 2 years in. I should have seen it then, but he threatened divorce and I caved and broke off contact with my friend. His actual words were something like, if you want to stay married you will never speak to him again.

About 5 years in he had major medical incident, with a couple of recurrences in the next 2-3 years. After each of these incidents things got worse. The anger became more frequent, and more volatile. Then the put-downs, the name calling, and the jealousy came. Around the 10 year mark he started talking about us buying a house, and my gut screamed...you don't want to be tied to him by something like that. Again, I ignored it, and we bought a house, despite him being frequently unemployed, sometimes for long stretches.

A couple of years later he tried to give me another ultimatum regarding a friend. I told him I would not go through that again. He looked at me like I had 3 heads, and said he had no idea what I was talking about. When I said the person's name, and told him how much it hurt me to cut my closest friend out of my life. he said that he was just mad at the time and I should have just waited a week or so and talked to him about it. I think it was around this time that I started to contemplate divorce, though I was scared. He then asked me what other things he had done to hurt me over the years. I tried not to answer, but he became obsessed with the answer, insisting that I write a list. That was the worst decision of my life...we joke about a PD playbook, this became the real deal. Though at that point I didn't know about PDs. Soon after that he took an online questionnaire (based on the DSM criteria) about BPD traits, he scored 8/9 and admitted later that he had lied about the question regarding suicidal thoughts. Turns out, he knew all along that he had BPD, he had been diagnosed in his late teens (though it was called EDD then).

I tried reading everything that I could, trying to understand, starting with Stop Walking on Eggshells. Suddenly a lot of the crazy things I had experienced started to make sense. I was bothered by the fact that all of the books I read talked only about how we as nons have to change and adapt to them, while also saying that it was unlikely the PD would ever change. I started seeking more information, and ended up here. When I first came to Out of the FOG I knew that I needed to divorce him, but I was worried about everything...who would stay in the house, my dogs (thankfully no children), what family would think, losing friends, would he contact my job as he had threatened so many times, would he kill himself, would he hurt me, and on and on.

But I continued to come here, to read, to post, and to gain strength. The final straw came a few months after our 15th anniversary with him telling me that he hoped I died. When I admitted that I was struggling to forgive that comment, he added that I should just kill myself. I felt my heart break, I screamed at him that anyone who had ever loved me would not be able to say those words, and in that moment I knew I was done. It took a few days, and him reading my journal, before I finally worked up the nerve and told him that I wanted a divorce. He moved out within a couple of weeks. There was some hoovering, some hate spewing, some threats, and some stalking, but I held my ground. The divorce was final about 8 months later. And though I did have to pay him a few years of alimony (equal to half of the equity in the house), it was worth it to have him out of my life for good. I am coming up on 5 years NC. I have sold the house we lived in, built a beautiful new home in a rural area of our state, I have an amazing DH, and I have never been happier.

I apologize for writing a book, but once I started it all just poured right out. It's hard to believe that we put up with these behaviors for so long...the FOG is a powerful thing.

[allsaints]

I knew something was "off" with him after dating for 3 months. Prior, tho, I'd known him as a distant acquaintance for two years. It wasn't until we dated that it was clear he wasn't just "eccentric" but actually seriously disordered.

Once we started dating (he was 40, I was 30), I started running into baffling behavior from him. What confounded things was the fact that he's a psychiatrist. Every time he did something unacceptable (blow up at me and insult me for a difference of opinion about a movie, for example) I was like... Huh? Why is this happening? He knows better. He's a doctor—a psychiatrist at that—this isn't how someone is supposed to treat others, let alone their GF.

I spent entirely too much time ruminating over these negative interactions and Googling things he had said or done. After Googling about the issues "we" kept running into for 3 months, I came across borderline personality disorder, then NPD. (Personality disorders were new to me). He seemed to have qualities of both. Then, I stumbled on the term covert (also called vulnerable) narcissist, and it all made sense. He's a textbook covert narcissist.

Unfortunately, I thought because I knew what I was dealing with, I could protect myself emotionally from the worst of it. I also downplayed the severity of NPD and assumed he would improve w time.

I also waited for him to disclose what was going on w him (surely he knew, as a psychiatrist, he was disordered?). He did (casually, while drinking) tell me that he was a "Cluster B," a "narcissist," and "personality disordered" (on 3 separate occasions) about 6 months to a year into us dating.

I didn't bring it up to discuss until we went to counseling, over a year later. He denied having ever said that when I brought it up in couples therapy. I reminded him he said it on several differ occasions, then it became he "forgot" he said that and "doesn't know why he would say such a thing."  After that, he vehemently denied having personality issues and it was off limits to ever discuss. That's really when it hit me how serious PDs are and how nothing would ever improve, not in any meaningful or significant way. If anything, it got worse over time and had a cumulative effect on me.

I never married him, thank god. But we dated for nearly four years. It was the unhealthiest relationship I've ever been in (verbally, emotionally abusive), which I knew at the time but didn't really grok the depth of. I'd never been in an abusive relationship before. Most of my past BFs were well-adjusted, good men. I also wondered why he couldn't behave around me how he behaved around his friends. He was well-respected (a lot of it has to do w his profession I think) and regarded as a "nice" guy by friends. He's a nightmare behind closed doors, tho.

I finally had enough of his abuse and chaos and broke up with him at the start of the pandemic. I wish I'd done it so much sooner. I thought about dumping him basically from the beginning, but various things prevented.

Since then, I met someone new and am in the healthiest relationship of my life, to date. Almost every day he does something (positive) that makes me thankful for him. It also makes me wonder why the hell I put up with my ex for as long as I did. I guess it was the frog boiling in the pot syndrome. My life is so peaceful now.

[Boat Babe]

I was 17 when we met he was 27, and I was 21 when we married. I had seen his anger a few times, and had heard him speak terribly to other people, but it was so infrequent I just thought he was having a bad day. There were also some major control issues regarding my (male) best friend, maybe 2 years in. I should have seen it then, but he threatened divorce and I caved and broke off contact with my friend. His actual words were something like, if you want to stay married you will never speak to him again.

About 5 years in he had major medical incident, with a couple of recurrences in the next 2-3 years. After each of these incidents things got worse. The anger became more frequent, and more volatile. Then the put-downs, the name calling, and the jealousy came. Around the 10 year mark he started talking about us buying a house, and my gut screamed...you don't want to be tied to him by something like that. Again, I ignored it, and we bought a house, despite him being frequently unemployed, sometimes for long stretches.

A couple of years later he tried to give me another ultimatum regarding a friend. I told him I would not go through that again. He looked at me like I had 3 heads, and said he had no idea what I was talking about. When I said the person's name, and told him how much it hurt me to cut my closest friend out of my life. he said that he was just mad at the time and I should have just waited a week or so and talked to him about it. I think it was around this time that I started to contemplate divorce, though I was scared. He then asked me what other things he had done to hurt me over the years. I tried not to answer, but he became obsessed with the answer, insisting that I write a list. That was the worst decision of my life...we joke about a PD playbook, this became the real deal. Though at that point I didn't know about PDs. Soon after that he took an online questionnaire (based on the DSM criteria) about BPD traits, he scored 8/9 and admitted later that he had lied about the question regarding suicidal thoughts. Turns out, he knew all along that he had BPD, he had been diagnosed in his late teens (though it was called EDD then).

I tried reading everything that I could, trying to understand, starting with Stop Walking on Eggshells. Suddenly a lot of the crazy things I had experienced started to make sense. I was bothered by the fact that all of the books I read talked only about how we as nons have to change and adapt to them, while also saying that it was unlikely the PD would ever change. I started seeking more information, and ended up here. When I first came to Out of the FOG I knew that I needed to divorce him, but I was worried about everything...who would stay in the house, my dogs (thankfully no children), what family would think, losing friends, would he contact my job as he had threatened so many times, would he kill himself, would he hurt me, and on and on.

But I continued to come here, to read, to post, and to gain strength. The final straw came a few months after our 15th anniversary with him telling me that he hoped I died. When I admitted that I was struggling to forgive that comment, he added that I should just kill myself. I felt my heart break, I screamed at him that anyone who had ever loved me would not be able to say those words, and in that moment I knew I was done. It took a few days, and him reading my journal, before I finally worked up the nerve and told him that I wanted a divorce. He moved out within a couple of weeks. There was some hoovering, some hate spewing, some threats, and some stalking, but I held my ground. The divorce was final about 8 months later. And though I did have to pay him a few years of alimony (equal to half of the equity in the house), it was worth it to have him out of my life for good. I am coming up on 5 years NC. I have sold the house we lived in, built a beautiful new home in a rural area of our state, I have an amazing DH, and I have never been happier.

I apologize for writing a book, but once I started it all just poured right out. It's hard to believe that we put up with these behaviors for so long...the FOG is a powerful thing.

Great story Blunk. So glad your new life is so wonderful. I have a friend who was in a relationship with a very controlling man for about the same time and, like you has a great life with a lovely new man and a bonus step daughter!   We so can't see it when we are in the FOG but if we can trust ourselves to make the first steps.

Courage and love to everyone.

[pushit]

My ex caught me at the perfect time in life, I was in my 30s and was feeling pressure to have a family soon or it wouldn't happen. 

We were together 18 months before we got married, and were married six years before I realized something was off (though signs were there from the beginning).  At the time I thought it was postpartum depression, due to just having one of our children.  As time went on, I started thinking I was wrong about that because she never got better.

One day I was Googling her behaviors and came across emotional abuse topics which led me to BPD.  I read "Stop Walking on Eggshells" and the light bulbs went off in my head like crazy.  That was eight years in.  I researched BPD and initially spent time on a different forum, where I learned more and to my disappointment realized how futile it was to try and get her help.  At nine years in I decided I was done trying, but I'd stick it out for the kids.  It was the most miserable year of my life.  Things got worse over time as I detached and she ramped up the crazy in order to get me to react.  During this time I found the Out of the FOG forum and finally saw that leaving was actually a good option for the kids.  The other forum I had been on focused strongly on keeping people in the marriage and tolerating it. 

At about ten years, I filed and never looked back.  Best choice I ever made.

[JustKeepTrying]

32 years of marriage to my OCPDxh.  Within a few months he begged to move in together (we were looking at a summer apart in college) so we selected an apartment in a nearby city and I got a summer job.  He didn't.  And he spent most of the summer away but I had to work to pay the rent and food.  Worst summer of my life.  Yet I stayed with him.  There was always a somewhat plausible excuse.

That fall we lived together and when his favorite team lost he slammed his boombox and split it.  A violent and angry reaction that scared me.  And I still stayed.

We married a little over a year after we met.  I talked to my parents about my doubts but they loved him.  So I thought I must be wrong.  I had been told that I was a dumb blonde and I believed it.

A year after the marriage I told him it wasn't working and I wanted out.  But he promised to make it work and we just needed to be on the same page work-wise.  The financial pressure was getting to him.  I believed him and I stayed.

Within the first few months of marriage the anger, silent treatment, physical intimidation, financial, emotional abuse began.  But each time I chalked it up to stress - the stress of the job, health, family.  There was always a huge issue.  Like job loss, grandparent death, our children, my cancer.  One large issue after another and I was snapped back into survival mode for another few years.  We would get a handle on the issue as a family and the fog would clear a little - and then bam another problem would hit.

After the cancer was the worst.  Very black days of deep depression for all of us.  I did contemplate suicide.  I was desperate.  I was told I would not survive cancer.  Scary for everyone. actually had a plan to take the kids to a shelter.  But he insisted he would get help.  We saw three counselors over the course of the marriage.  They all loved him.

It was the PTSD diagnosis that did it.  The kids were talking about a home health aid with their dad for me.  I was having daily seizures and bouts of aphasia.  I thought it was cancer.  But it's true, the body keeps score and my body was losing.

With the right therapy (EMDR) and therapist, the fog cleared and. I couldn't unsee it.  I finally had the strength to walk.  I made the decision and was out in a week..  Lots of late nights at the copier before I left. 

I have never been happier.

[pushit]

Lots of late nights at the copier before I left. 

I have never been happier.

Great story, thanks for sharing.  You're an incredibly strong person.

I'll never forget those final days when I calculated every minute she'd be gone so I could scan important documents.  That's the time when we close our eyes and say eff it, then jump off the high dive.

[ploughthrough2021]

I was 17 when we met he was 27, and I was 21 when we married. I had seen his anger a few times, and had heard him speak terribly to other people, but it was so ...

Hi Blunk,

With the way you told your story, it seems like you still remember your horrible times very clearly.  Does it haunt you sometimes ?  I am asking because I am going through separation with my uNPDw and sometimes, I often wake up in the middle of the night with a horrible feeling (might be the Obligation and Guilt) and it takes me hours to fall back asleep.

[JustKeepTrying]

ploughthrough2021,

It's been two years since I left.  I still wake up with panic, anxiety, depression, and more.  Takes hours to get back to sleep if I can.  Therapy helps - EMDR therapist with a trauma specialist.  If you can find one, try it.  Living with a PD, especially with your long marriage, is a trauma.  Treat yourself with compassion.  Plan and you will find the peace you are seeking.

Thank you pushit.  The support on this forum is incredible.  Wouldn't be able to do it without them.

Blunk - wow.  You are a true inspirational survivor.

Back to the original post before it was hijacked - It's interesting how powerful FOG is.  With these stories and others, we see it early and often and still decide to stay.  The power of the FOG, our compassion and empathy, and just the commitment to the marriage vow.  That strange dissonance of commitment to other and to self.  A lot of threads to unravel when it comes to separation.

[Aeon]

Am still here after 19 years.
There were red flags but I did not pay attention to them and had just come from a very short marriage with a probably pd. First marriage ended when DH said we were going to have an 'open marriage', so I was kinda traumatized a bit by that. I took a couple of years off romance and thought that marrying my best friend would be a dandy idea.
Eight years later the mask came off and I was basically ignored for 8 months after I moved temporarily to a spare room until my unpdH solved his extreme snoring problem. He never solved it but asked me, "Is everything okay between us?" 8 months later. I was aghast and told him, "Yes". He seemed fine with that.
That was when I knew something was really, really wrong. A few days later I was crying and asking him why he did this and acted like nothing happened and how hurt I was. He did not answer, looked at me stone-faced and complained that I called him a name. 
Now he will admit to being an avoidant but will not admit to any of the symptoms or difficulties that it has caused me or him.

[blunk]

I'm so sorry for the hijack. 

I was 17 when we met he was 27, and I was 21 when we married. I had seen his anger a few times, and had heard him speak terribly to other people, but it was so ...

Hi Blunk,

With the way you told your story, it seems like you still remember your horrible times very clearly.  Does it haunt you sometimes ?  I am asking because I am going through separation with my uNPDw and sometimes, I often wake up in the middle of the night with a horrible feeling (might be the Obligation and Guilt) and it takes me hours to fall back asleep.

I do remember the bad times pretty vividly. During the marriage, and even after the divorce, I did have a lot of trouble sleeping. That has faded over time, and now I sleep like a rock. I realized I wasn't a light sleeper like I always thought...I was completely hypervigilant. I still have occasional nightmares, and I am certain that if I ever ran into him on the street I would probably have a full-blown panic attack. The best thing for me was moving to a place where there is no chance of seeing him randomly.

[IcedCoffee]

I noticed from day 1 that she was odd. But it was exciting for ten years. Then we had children. She couldn't really cope. She got really bad. I did some research and discovered BPD. I was very unhappy for ten years but we were stable. And so I forgot about BPD. A year ago she said she wanted a divorce, this time she meant it and spoke to lawyers. Since then I re-discovered BPD and have been trying to keep the marriage together. With Medium Chill and not JADEing etc. things are really quite good. (However. no intimacy, and no empathy, it's like living with a cute wild animal. Unfulfilling for me.) But she still wants the divorce. So I'm still unhappy but in a different way from before!

[Jsinjin]

This'll be a popular thread!!   

On our honeymoon she was in charge of a major conference and I thought we would spend time together in between stuff but I literally didn't see her the entire trip; she never missed an activity. 

But when we moved back to the apartment I recall unpacking a set of glasses that were wedding gifts and being shocked at how violently angry she got over that one thing being done.   We had to take them out of the cabinet and put them back in the package.  They're still boxed up in the attic today 25 years plus later. 

That was the start and it's only gotten worse.  At first I thought it was just weird focus but her need to deal with the worst case scenario is always there as is her volunteering and being gone.   It wasn't until 20 plus years later that I was in therapy and learned about this.

[Bunnyme]

I noticed that he lied soon after we got married.  That's when I saw his scary rage side, too.  But I made excuses...he is just angry because he lost his job...again.  i noticed he was thoughtful when others were watching, but seemed oblivious to my feelings otherwise.  I just typed a long response and deleted it for fear that it was too identifiable.  But long story short, there were some MAJOR incidents where he lacked empathy at the worst moments of my life and began to rage at me (verbally).  Still, I excused each one as him just not handling stress well.  Looking back, I cant BELIEVE I stayed, but there were some good, fun, calm times mixed in that kept me just hopeful enough that he would change to feel guilty about breaking up the family.  His lies got more frequent, and we became like roommates.  It finally took him actually endangering the kids for my mama bear instincts to overtake the guilt and split. 

[square]

First 10 years
Stuff happened from the beginning but I was very confused and disoriented by it. If you had asked me if something was wrong I would have sincerely said no. I thought it was US, not him, for several reasons. In between the utterly baffling meltdowns it was great. No eggshells, he was very caring. And here and there, WHAM! And then he'd make it up to me somehow and I'd feel like, whew, that's over.

10-15 years in
This was the slide. The blowups were more frequent. He stopped trying to make it up to me after. There was a shift where instead of him "fixing" it, I'd have to just deal with it (when he indicated he was tired of fighting) or go for another 24 hours of rage. Like being held hostage.

At this point I knew it was him and not us, not that I'm perfect obviously, but just that something in him was off or wrong and it wasn't 50-50. I read Bancroft but it wasn't a lightbulb moment for me. I started thinking aboit divorce but only during the explosions.

15-20 years in
The worst. Eggshells, all the time. Every minute was just about getting through the day. Anything and everything could set him off. Paranoia and utterly bizarre ways of seeing the world. During this time I finally landed on mental illness, PD, and trauma. Over a period of 3 years I changed myself, better boundaries, taking responsibility for my own behavior (I used to give back what I got, matching his tone, throwing his weapons back at him), taking better care of DD.

During this time I made the decision to divorce, then in the beginning processes of that decided I couldn't. I still consider the decision to be a real one in a way. In a sense, I am no longer married. I'm "handling" him. I think in the future we might have a Catholic divorce - that is, we simply seperate with no paperwork or even necessarily acknowledging it. I'll just stay with my mom a lot. It's just a matter of DD becoming an adult first.

[SeaBreeze]

I'm 20 years in, and this is my 2nd marriage. I noticed red flags from uNPDh very early on, but ignored my gut and downplayed it. I was groomed by Nmom, and recovering from marriage to overt N ex-H #1 and his N-cult family, so I was ripe for the picking. (It only took me 5 years to get out of that first marriage. A fact I remind myself of lately...)

But back to current marriage.. The first red flag that actually surprised me, and set the tone for the next few years of FOG...was when H #2 raged at me the first time, about 2 months in after the lovebombing honeymoon stage. It's been push/pull "for better or worse, or at least not always bad" since.

About 7 years in, I finally realized I was being emotionally abused. Because of this realization, we actually separated for nearly a year. But for various reasons, including a poorly planned exit strategy on my part, we reconciled. (But yes, I got out, for a year! Another fact I think about these days.)  It took another 7 years after that (so 14 years in) to understand H abuses because he's a Narc. Finally found Out of the FOG about 5 years ago, lurked for 2 yrs before finally posting.

I began formulating a better exit strategy when my youngest child, the last one at home, started high school. This involved securing a decent job. Youngest child is now 18 and halfway moved out after a year of college. I've recently been promoted with a raise, and going back to college myself this Fall. Covid threw a wrench in the works but I'm watching, waiting, biding my time until it's safe (or at least less risky) to go.

[Lauren17]

We met at college. I remember looking at him during our first date and thinking this wouldn't go anywhere as there was something strange about him. Then the hoovering.
The year we were engaged was probably the worst. The manipulation, lies, cheating. Of course, I often ended up apologizing for his actions. Year one of marriage wasn't much better.
Until about year 10, we settled in and things were "ok."
Years 10-15 were just as Square described. He still manipulated, invalidated, lied and belittled, but he no longer "made up" for his behavior.
Years 15-20 were when I finally, slowly started coming Out of the FOG. As I've learned about MC and JADE and applied some boundaries he has withdrawn more and more.
We're at 20 plus years now. We don't have a relationship now, much less a marriage. I'm planning on filing before the end of the year.

[ploughthrough2021]

It has been enlightening for me to see how many other people get 'trapped' in situations like mine and take years to get out of it! Great forum !

[bat123]

I've been married almost 25 years to uNPD.  I knew he was "difficult" almost from the start, but I mostly blamed myself and my own baggage.  At most, I thought he had "anger management" issues, and I tried to modify my behavior in order not to trigger him.  I think I also felt a twisted sense of pride that I was "strong" enough to navigate a difficult relationship.  It took me years to identify and make sense of the entire set of patterns— the guilt, manipulation, and gaslighting.  At this point, I'm completely aware of the dynamic, and I understand how my own unaddressed issues made me vulnerable to this type of relationship.  I'm much happier and self-confident nowadays.   But, I still struggle on a daily basis with the internal dialogue in my head about whether to stay or leave.   The relationship has taken its toll on me, and on my children.  It's hard not to look back and think how my life could have been different, and how I deserved more.  Even if I do eventually leave, I've spent half my life in this relationship, and they are years I'll never get back.