Dropping the rope when it comes to elderly in-laws

Started by Sneezy, June 15, 2021, 05:00:38 PM

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Sneezy

DH's aunt is coming to visit for a few days.  She has asked to talk to DH and BIL alone because she is concerned about their parents (my MIL and FIL).  I understand her concern, although I doubt there is anything new she can share about the situation.  In a nutshell - uHMIL has dementia.  She gets lost if she goes out, sleeps 16 hours a day, barely eats, and spends her waking time bitching at FIL or reading the same book over and over.  It is as sad as can be.  Enabling-FIL is miserable.  He does everything around the house.  He has chronic back pain and Parkinson's disease.  When I met FIL he was a senior executive at a Fortune 500 company who loved to golf and boat and woodwork.  Now he is the saddest, most miserable, long-suffering, depressed person I think I know (outside of my own mom, but that's another story).

Aunt is concerned because MIL and FIL live in a huge house in the middle of nowhere that is getting pretty rundown.  They alternate between this house and a house in a retirement community in Florida.  Just packing up twice a year and moving from house to house is too much for them.  They are frail and medically fragile.  DH and his brother have repeatedly begged them to sell the big house and move to Florida permanently, or better yet, move near us so we can help them.  They won't do it.  It's like they are determined to suffer and be miserable.  They rarely call or visit us.  Most phone calls between DH and his parents end in frustration or yelling.

I have talked to DH about dropping the rope.  Unless he goes to court and gets both of his parents declared incompetent, which is unlikely to happen, there is nothing more he can do.  We will have to wait until something bad happens and deal with it then.  I think DH is starting to get it.  But he gets so upset when the topic of his parents comes up.  It can really impact his mood.  So . . . that's the point of this post.  If Aunt's visit goes like her previous visits, she is going to talk about my in-laws non-stop.  It will be four solid days of obsessing about them.  To be honest, Aunt does kind of enjoy a little drama.  That's not good for DH and the fallout is certainly not good for anyone else around Aunt and DH.  They will both work themselves into a tizzy over all this, going round and round about something that they can't fix.

But if I try to end the discussion or steer it in another direction, I'm going to be the bad guy who doesn't care about DH's family.  So what do I do?  Grin and bear it?  Get my medium chill into high gear?  Any good ideas?

Andeza

Any chance you can leave the house until she's gone? I'm actually fairly serious. Sounds like dear Auntie is a collector. She collects other people's business, considers it a juicy tidbit, and then just like a proud rooster would do for his flock of hens she drops it in somebody else's lap. Problem is it's not a juicy tidbit or a grub for hens to fight over. It's a distressing informational and emotional dump that your DH sounds ill-prepared to deal with. Does he have access to tools like the toolbox? Is he open to using them with his dear flying monkey... I mean aunt... :roll:
Remember, that there are no real deadlines for life, just society's pressures.      - Anonymous
Lasting happiness is not something we find, but rather something we make for ourselves.

Call Me Cordelia

Yes I would peace out too. And maybe tell DH in advance exactly why. You clearly understand the reasons for concern but there is absolutely nothing you can do. Stewing in the drama is just not good for you and you're going to politely excuse yourself from the topic. Your being upset by this doesn't help anyone. Whether you actually do care or not is completely beside the point. I've been most successful communicating boundaries when I've stuck to facts and "I statements." What DH does is up to him.

Something also to think about is your boundaries for the aftereffects of this visitation on you and DH both.

Jolie40

#3
maybe you can stay and give input....that someone needs to take charge
if your husband doesn't want to be in charge, then Aunt or BIL needs to step up to be in charge

someone needs to get power of attorney so when not if something happens, medical decisions need to be made & whoever takes charge will most likely be the one to get properties sold


we have an elderly neighbor & her husband recently died
fortunately, she had 5 kids so one or more visits every single day to bring food/check on her or take her places as she no longer drives....spoke with her on phone recently & she seems fine mentally & physically walks well/goes up steps to her door

so if a fairly healthy senior is checked on daily, I would think your unhealthy in-laws needed checked on/helped daily? if not possible, then assisted or full time care at a facility?

be good to yourself

SunnyMeadow

#4
First I'd have a talk with your dh about how you feel this visit is going to go and get a feel for how he's going to handle it. I'd tell him what you've said here. You're concerned for his well being and that you know how his aunt repeats and goes on about topics.

Then perhaps dh or you say something to his aunt. I'd say something like, "this is all so upsetting and we can't discuss this anymore. We've tried and tried and when we offer suggestions, they don't listen. They rarely call us or visit and there is no way for us to help without dragging them both into a new location. So while I wish we could do something for them, they aren't interested".

If his aunt continues on, I'd tell her I need to excuse myself and leave. If your dh wants to keep rehashing it, that's his business but you don't have to be a part of it.

We have enough stress and anxiety with our own NPD parents without adding in-laws and aunts into the mix. Protect yourself!


Sneezy

Quote from: Andeza on June 15, 2021, 06:32:25 PM
Sounds like dear Auntie is a collector. She collects other people's business, considers it a juicy tidbit, and then just like a proud rooster would do for his flock of hens she drops it in somebody else's lap.
Andeza - It sounds like you have met dear Auntie - you have described her to a tee.  :stars:

I have talked to DH and he would also like to limit the endless re-hashing about his parents' situation.  But I think you are all right when you recommend an exit strategy for me.  I can't physically leave for any length of time, but I may have a minor work emergency or two that I need to take care of.  And my garden always needs a little extra water.  I am going to have some strategies in place ahead of time to excuse myself if the situation gets out of hand.

Jolie40 - You are absolutely correct that someone needs to take charge of my in-laws' situation.  The problem is that they don't seem to trust their own sons' advice.  In fact, they often do exactly the opposite of what their sons recommend.  I don't understand it.  They raised a couple of really smart, compassionate, caring men, who would drop everything to help them.  And yet they don't trust them.  Here's an example - FIL owns a crappy old fishing boat.  When we visit, we are not allowed to use it without him.  He won't let either of his sons drive it, because they might hurt the boat.  And yet, when our DD (his grand-daughter) visited, FIL was fine with DD's boyfriend taking the boat out without him.  He trusts everyone but his own children.  It's both sad and infuriating.

moglow

QuoteHe trusts everyone but his own children.  It's both sad and infuriating.
That's painfully familiar, all by itself - it's like we're seen perpetually as the children who lived in their homes rather than as the adults we've become. I had plenty of that with mommie dearest, where she openly questioned my abilities on every level. Yet somehow I've managed to survive, and thrive!

It makes total sense to me that you/we can't realistically take charge of a situation for grown adults, barring them being declared incompetent. Yes, it's waiting for the other shoe to drop, an event that mandates your/someone's assistance. Until then your hands are well and truly tied.

And I can appreciate the issues with Auntie Mame - it's her brother/sister and I'm sure she's concerned as any of us would be, but really. You're supposed to somehow fix this? I can too easily see the same with mother's siblings, were they still living. Regardless of how we were treated and talked about, they all pushed our responsibility to somehow fix things for her - when she wanted nothing to do with us?? Really?
I'm afraid all your husband can do is set and maintain boundaries with her, keep changing the subject with "well. I'm sorry to hear that. Do you still grow xyz flowers, etc...?" She may legitimately think he's unaware, but once that's out there he really has no obligation to keep pounding away at it. Maybe "Auntie Mame, I get it, really. They're both completely opposed to us doing anything so our hands really are tied. Can we talk about other things?"
"She had not known the weight until she felt the freedom." ~Nathaniel Hawthorne, The Scarlet Letter
"Expectations are disappointments under construction." ~Capn Spanky, The Nook circa 2005ish

Sneezy

Quote from: moglow on June 16, 2021, 11:07:03 AM
She may legitimately think he's unaware, but once that's out there he really has no obligation to keep pounding away at it.
This is a good point.  Auntie probably feels as helpless as we do and wants to make sure that we know everything she knows.  She has every right to express her concern, and she would probably feel awful if she didn't share her concern and then something bad happened.  I think she needs to have her meeting with DH and his brother.  And I'm not saying we can't talk about it after that meeting.  But it can't be the focus of the next four days, 24/7.  Auntie isn't getting any younger either, and I want to enjoy our time together, not be frustrated and anxious the whole time she is here.

Sneezy

So far, so good.  The "private meeting" went for three hours, so definitely glad I wasn't invited  ;)

Aunt has no new info.  She is concerned, as we all are.  DH flew to visit his parents in May and he and I also have flights booked for this fall to see them.  Aunt is encouraging DH to plan a further trip this summer, when FIL has an appointment with a specialist.  I think this is a good idea.  When DH told me this, I immediately started checking calendars and flights.  And then I knew what you all would say - this is up to DH, not me.  I don't need to jump whenever Aunt has a suggestion.  If DH wants to go to the specialist with his dad (which I think is an excellent suggestion), he can let me know and also let me know if he needs help with planning, reservations, etc. 

I am grateful to all of you for helping me with boundaries  :)

daughter

Perhaps the quick answer to aunt is that unless FIL actually asks DH for assistance, then there's little "intervention" DH can do for a father who refuses sons' counsel.

Sometimes our parents' desired retirement circumstances are less than optimal, but it's still their choice.   It's very difficult to tell a difficult parent that their choices are wrong.  Sometimes situation needs to significantly deteriorate before intervention can successfully intervene.

Sneezy

Quote from: daughter on June 17, 2021, 08:00:36 PM
there's little "intervention" DH can do for a father who refuses sons' counsel.
Exactly!!!  Aunt keeps saying that FIL is just waiting for his sons to step in and take charge and tell him what to do.  But that's not correct.  DH and his brother have spent hours upon hours discussing options with FIL and coming up with solutions that FIL then disregards.  They have come up with several different possibilities, any of which would be better than what FIL and MIL are currently doing.  These discussions have gone on for hours.  DH and I, and BIL and his wife, have spent days with realtors scouting out possible homes and communities near us that MIL and FIL have expressed an interest in.  And yet, they never follow through.  And if anyone asks why they don't follow through, it ends up with yelling and tears.  Enough!

Eventually, something will change.  And maybe FIL will ask for help.  And if/when he does, DH and his brother will be on the next plane out to go help.  But FIL has to take some tiny bit of initiative in making changes.  Otherwise, we wait . . .

Andeza

Nah, FIL isn't going to make any changes. He likes the attention too much. Why change when you got a good thing going? I'm afraid that's the real story here. Supply from knowing other people are biting their nails over the situation.
Remember, that there are no real deadlines for life, just society's pressures.      - Anonymous
Lasting happiness is not something we find, but rather something we make for ourselves.

Cat of the Canals

Quote from: daughter on June 17, 2021, 08:00:36 PM
Perhaps the quick answer to aunt is that unless FIL actually asks DH for assistance, then there's little "intervention" DH can do for a father who refuses sons' counsel.

Sometimes our parents' desired retirement circumstances are less than optimal, but it's still their choice.   It's very difficult to tell a difficult parent that their choices are wrong.  Sometimes situation needs to significantly deteriorate before intervention can successfully intervene.

Totally agree with this. I'd be a broken record of, "We are aware. We have offered assistance. They have refused."

Leonor

 :yeahthat:

Perhaps to think of this situation in a different way.

Your ils are adults. They have the right to live as they wish to live. They have the right to age as they see fit. They have the right to make their own decisions, medical, financial or otherwise, without any interference from their adult children. They have the right to their boundaries, too.

You can disagree with their decisions, you can present your point of view, you can even lay out options. But you cannot control them. You can't push them to do something they don't want to do. Respecting boundaries works both ways.

Of course everyone else is worried, and there may be grounds for worry and there may be, frankly, a certain payoff they get from everyone else being so worried. But your worries are *your* problem. You and your h are going to have to manage your anxiety around your ils, because frankly my dear they don't give a damn and it's actually none of your business.

The worry and the rushing and the gossip and the travels, this is all a product of you and your dh's anxiety. They're not asking for your opinions or help or options. They're doing what they do. So dh is going to show up and freak out and ... what? Bundle them up and toss them into a care facility (they'll sneak out and go back home)? Shove a nursemaid into their kitchen (they'll fire her)? Leave your dh to tend to their daily necessities and errands (ah, that one they might like. *You'll* hate it, but they'll be all right with it)?

The one way to ensure that the adult child remains parentified is for him to pretend to be his parents' parent.

Breathe. Disagree. Have better ideas. Know of practical options. But you didn't cause it, and you can't control it. Trying to control it will only make you and your dh exhausted and less able to respond when a real emergency arises.

Sneezy

Quote from: Leonor on June 18, 2021, 05:19:21 PM
They have the right to their boundaries, too.
Point taken  ;D

Leonor - I agree with everything you say, except for two minor modifications.  uHMIL is not competent due to dementia.  However, as long as FIL is alive, this is really his problem, not ours, unless he asks for help with her, which he hasn't.  FIL *has* asked for our advice on where he should live, and his sons have provided it.  As I noted earlier, we have gone so far as to preview homes and neighborhoods with realtors on my in-laws behalf and at their request.  But, and this is key, FIL and MIL never actually follow through on anything or take any advice, even when they have specifically asked for that advice.  They're not making any changes, and it's time we all admit it.

As Andeza says, this is more about attention than genuinely seeking our advice or truly wanting to make any changes.  I need to let it go.  They can age however they want and I don't need or want to discuss it endlessly and get worked up about it.  And the calmer and less interested I am, the more DH will be able to let go as well.  At least that's my hope.

lkdrymom

Quote from: Andeza on June 18, 2021, 02:00:31 PM
Nah, FIL isn't going to make any changes. He likes the attention too much. Why change when you got a good thing going? I'm afraid that's the real story here. Supply from knowing other people are biting their nails over the situation.

I totally agree.  I think the next time FIL asks for advice I would ask him if he is ready to act on your advice or not as you don't want to waste your time and energy for nothing.  At this point there really is nothing you can do until they are really ready to make changes or an event happens where they have no choice.

square

I think I'd lean toward just MCing requests for advice.

Even a healthy person may not be able to commit to taking advice. It's FIL's right to weigh it and decide.

He has already shown that he is very unlikely to take the advice, for whatever reason. So no need for you guys to put any time or effort into it.

weddingcat

Sneezy-  I agree with everyone's suggestions. You definitely have to make boundaries for your own sanity. Before the aunt comes, you should tell your DH that when the subject comes up, you will be leaving the room.
And follow through.
I lived with the same situation for at least 6 years - my own parents disconnected from everyone and lived in a way that was beyond me, that they didn't have to. The time and energy I spent trying to get them to go to assisted living,
downsize, get help - it was a waste of time - they did not want it. So like you I had to wait until the shoe dropped and it did. My dad had dementia and my mom destroyed herself caring for him. She passed away first - suddenly, so he had to immediately
go to memory care. Then he died 2 months later.
They make their own decisions and there is no changing them. You have to make boundaries for yourself, even if your DH wants to beat a dead horse, let him - but don't be a part of it.

Sneezy

Quote from: weddingcat on July 14, 2021, 04:30:23 PM
They make their own decisions and there is no changing them.
This is so true.  And it's actually ok.  I need to remember that adults get to make their own decisions, even really bad decisions. 

DH is doing well with this.  He has decided to go see a specialist with his father, and I agree that is a good idea.  For something serious, when there is a specialist involved, it's usually a good idea for someone else to go along and help take notes, etc. But then BIL had the idea that DH should also go see another doctor (for more general issues) with FIL.  DH just said no.  FIL is capable of seeing his regular doctor on his own.  And if BIL thinks it's so important, then BIL can handle that visit.