Divorce and the children

[Boat Babe]

I almost want to put this in the "Committed to working on it" section as that's what I want to address here. I have done a lot of research on the impact of Domestic Abuse on children recently (because job) and what I am seeing is clear and unarguable. I could quote chapter and verse using numbers and statistics, research papers and professional reports, but you can do that if you're interested.

What ALL the data says is that being exposed to domestic abuse (physical, sexual, emotional, financial, coercive control, gaslighting, rages - the whole nine yards) is abuse in and of itself.  If our children witness this, as part of "normal" family life, then it will impact them severely. Some may never recover.

It's shocking but it's the truth.. Don't stay for the children. Leave for the children.

[Poison Ivy]

Thank you for this post, Boat Babe.

[Kat54]

I stayed too long. Should of left sooner and with my kids. Unfortunately I grew up in emotional abuse so that's all I knew and it was part of my married life as well. Therapy helped me recognize what was happening, something I denied or couldn't understand for a long time and I was to weak to leave.
My young adult children and myself suffered at the hands of my ex, emotional and some physical. It is my biggest regret and as I write this it brings me to tears, as they should not of grown up in that.

[Free2Bme]

Lots of regrets here too, this is really hard to live with. 

IME, the most cruel part of this is having to choose your manner of death, 'firing squad' or 'guillotine'. 

If I stayed, there would be perpetual damage to me and children.  If I left, the frightening reality of updxh having full access to kids and I'm not there for YEARS.  The weight of having to make this decision on behalf of myself and four innocent children was almost too much, especially while operating from a weakened state, as Kat mentioned.

It seems set up for failure, as if there is no possibility for a good outcome.  I would not wish this on my worst enemy.

I apologize, I realize how fatalistic this sounds.  But this was my experience and I still struggle with all that has happened.

[Boat Babe]

Dear Free2Bme, my heart breaks for you ❤️❤️❤️

[Boat Babe]

I stayed too long. Should of left sooner and with my kids. Unfortunately I grew up in emotional abuse so that's all I knew and it was part of my married life as well. Therapy helped me recognize what was happening, something I denied or couldn't understand for a long time and I was to weak to leave.
My young adult children and myself suffered at the hands of my ex, emotional and some physical. It is my biggest regret and as I write this it brings me to tears, as they should not of grown up in that.

So so sorry to hear this Kat. I can imagine your pain. Sending hugs.

[Call Me Cordelia]

 

I remember begging my mother to get a divorce.

It's certainly very difficult to leave. I don't know first hand as I am married to a good man. But as a witness and support person IRL to a friend who left and what I've read here, parents can do much more for them when out than staying in. First of all you put on your own oxygen mask, and can operate from a much healthier place, and create a safe home for the children at least when with you. The very act of leaving says to the kids loud and clear that the abuse is not ok, not normal, and intolerable. That's huge. And documenting everything that happens gives you power to fight back in a way not likely to happen from in the marriage. It's a long hard road for sure and not fair. Religiously I do believe in the indissolubility of marriage, but protecting our children is a clear duty and no one else can do that like a parent can.

[ploughthrough2021]

Even better: Leave before having children...

[CagedBirdSinging]

Lots of regrets here too, this is really hard to live with. 

IME, the most cruel part of this is having to choose your manner of death, 'firing squad' or 'guillotine'. 

If I stayed, there would be perpetual damage to me and children.  If I left, the frightening reality of updxh having full access to kids and I'm not there for YEARS.  The weight of having to make this decision on behalf of myself and four innocent children was almost too much, especially while operating from a weakened state, as Kat mentioned.

It seems set up for failure, as if there is no possibility for a good outcome.  I would not wish this on my worst enemy.

I apologize, I realize how fatalistic this sounds.  But this was my experience and I still struggle with all that has happened.

Free2B, this is the exact situation I'm in at the moment. Terrified of the damage that would be caused by staying. Terrified of the harm that could be done by leaving young children alone with unstable pd.

If only the courts were more supportive of victims of domestic abuse. It seems that unless there has been physical abuse, courts still award ample amounts of unsupervised access to the pd. (I realise this may vary from place to place- I'm speaking about where I live)

I left my marriage on the understanding that pdH would NOT be awarded unsupervised access. This is what my L had advised. But since then, a friend in a similar position went to court and her ex was awarded full EOW custody. Also pdH has been in regular therapy since we left. My L now reckons he will get EOW custody, despite documented abuse (towards me, not towards kids).

Boatbabe, have there been any studies on the impact of leaving children alone with pd parent for extended periods of time? I imagine this could be damaging too. Particularly if the pd is unstable. My only hope is that PD might upset them so much that they refuse to go to his house, at which point he might throw a strop and LEAVE. But that might not happen. He is very stubborn.

[Boat Babe]

Totally between a rock and a hard place. I so get that.

I suppose it's balancing between being with both parents all the time and witnessing abuse, or being with one parent (you) most of the time in a calm, sane and loving environment and spending a shorter amount of of time with the PD.

Many of them can't handle being a full-time parent, if only for 24 hours and often contact diminishes over time.

I can only suggest keeping meticulous records and getting the best legal advice you can afford.

I haven't come across studies such as you mention. Perhaps the shared wisdom and experience of Out of the FOG members can fill in the gaps.

It's all so very dreadful and my heart goes out to you and everyone in this situation.

[JustKeepTrying]

My biggest regret.  I waited far too long.  I was so deep in the fog I remember stating that I did not understand why people would stay.  I was so proud of my marriage.

I just didn't know.

[Joga]

Boat Babe, thanks for bringing up this topic. I am currently struggling with whether to leave and what is best for the kids. If you check my post history you will see that I've tried to leave several times in the past few years but I can't bring myself to do it. My uNPDh has never been violent but is emotionally/ verbally abusive to me and the kids. He would appear to the court to be a good upstanding citizen and where we live, would likely get 50/50 custody if he wanted it. Never mind that he barely contributes to the childrens' care.

My oldest, who gets the brunt of it, has asked me to leave and get him a new dad. My youngest just unexpectedly confided in me that he's scared of dad yelling at him. My middle is the GC but has his own issues.

I'm so so sorry to everyone here who has posted their regrets. Thank you for sharing. My heart goes out to you and I want to learn from your regrets.

It's hard to accept that in order to protect your kids, you have to leave them alone with the PD sometimes, and hope he's too lazy/selfish to take all his parenting time.

[pushit]

Boat Babe - Thank you for posting this, I'm sure it will help a lot of people out.

I just wanted to chime in as one person on the "other side" of divorce and say I can add another case study that confirms what you wrote.

My kids went from timid, insecure kids with bags under their eyes to smiling and happy kids within a year of my leaving.  All of the screaming, tantrums, and throwing up have been replaced with laughter, smack talk, and peace in my house.

Zero regrets about my decision.

[Joga]

Pushit, how much time do they spend with your ex? Do they have trouble transitioning back and forth?

[Free2Bme]

Sometimes I wish I would have left sooner, 3:4 of my kids have commented likewise.  However, I feel that although my situation was bad, we were financially secure, I stayed home with my kids and life was beautiful with them until updxh got home. 

I invested heavily in my relationship with them, the kids had an idyllic childhood in many respects, and were nurtured.  I had the luxury of time with them to help them process what was going on.  I would not have been able to provide these things for them as a stressed out, struggling, single mom of 4, with an unstable updxh always looking to annihilate me.

Don't get me wrong, my kids and I were damaged by my choice to stay.  But it is so very difficult to quantify damage. 

Another point I'll make is when one chooses to leave when the kids are young, there is more opportunity for brainwashing, alienation, triangulating the children.  Throw in the complication of step-parents, and it can get real messy.

One must evaluate all the moving parts and determine the best course of action for the children.  Sometimes, that means waiting.

*ploughthrough nailed it..........leave before having children !

[pushit]

Pushit, how much time do they spend with your ex? Do they have trouble transitioning back and forth?

We share them 50/50.  Sometimes they are a little "off" when they come to my house, but within a day or so we are rolling right along again.

What I typically see is amped up behavior, they argue with each other more, my oldest (exPDw's GC) wants to argue with me about things I'm supposed to do.  It's obvious that my exPDw is trying to control things at my house through the GC, but I don't allow that.  By being consistent over time this has lessened.  They've seen that I do what I say I'm going to do, and they've seen the pattern of exPDw saying one thing and doing another.

[Lauren17]

Thank you for posting this.  I really needed to hear it right now.  I was going to expand more on my situation, but Joga wrote everything out for me!  I'm planning on filing very soon, and I'm most frightened on the impact it will have on my children.  They are older, and they are starting to see that Dad's behavior isn't healthy.  I'm seeing how his behaviors and my responses have impacted their emotional growth and self confidence.

It is scary to think of leaving DD in H's care for half the time. I've kept track and he currently spends about 30 minutes a day with them. I have to hope and pray that, in the end, this will be best for all of us.

[escapingman]

Thanks for sharing Boat Babe, this is exactly the kind of things I need to read right now. The damage my uNPDw is causing all of us is so bad, she creates divides and the entire house is a constant battle field between her, GC and SG. I have kind of stepped out of it trying to get all my ducks in a row and escape. I have tried twice but she has managed to hover me back. When I spend time with the kids without her they are completely different, happy innocent children, but when she is involved its chaos and GC treats me like dirt just to get validation from her mum.

[Stillirise]

I just wanted to chime in to say this is why I divorced my updxh. It had come to me believing in my heart that the kids were being more damaged by witnessing the PD behaviors than they would be if we divorced.  Both kids asked me to divorce their dad at one time or another.  I could no longer allow them to grow up thinking that was what a marriage was supposed to look like. Also, my mental health was deteriorating to the point that I didn't always feel like the best mother, as I struggled to deal with the effects of the verbal/emotional abuse I was regularly subjected to.  The kids were 8 & 10 when we separated, and I wish I'd done it sooner.

I took a huge financial risk, and also a gamble regarding custody.  So far, it has played out as I hoped. The ex is more concerned with appearances and money, than with parenting.  He regularly shirks parenting time he's entitled to.  I'm getting by financially, and can say overall, life is so much better! I do still fear the day when he turns one or both kids into SG's, but in the meantime, I can prepare them, and show them what a loving home looks like.

There is never an easy choice, or a perfect time to leave, in these situations.  Best wishes to you all who are struggling with the decision.  You can make brave choices, even when you're scared.   

[WhiteWolf]

I'm living this right now. I want to leave. I SHOULD leave. But I have absolutely no confidence my children will be safe without me there. He's already picked up my DD by her neck. What else will he do to them when I'm not there to protect them? That's why I stay. And waste my ENTIRE life to protect them.