Emotional Abuse and Separation/Divorce

[tragedy or hope]

SoT,
You ask some good and hard questions. In the matter of removing oneself; There are a number of ways to do that. It could be physical, psychological, simply grey rock, etc. I think when I was young, if I had left I would have been a single mother with fatherless children living in the midst of WWIII even if I had complete recovery of my own ills. N's are very hard to get away from. Even in this litigious society, people seem to get hurt anyway.

For me it was to relinquish my hope for what I thought I needed, leaving it to God to show me what He wanted for me. Sometimes a simple day away was enough to fill my soul with courage to move forward. Sometimes it was just checking out; observing him like a mental patient screaming out of the hospital window. Leaving need not always be physical.

And yes, no matter what the cost to me. I don't see myself as the most important here. I see the plan of God and my relationship to the One who knows all things as the priority. On this you and I may differ... marriage to me is the witness of Christ and His church to the world.

Do I think I should physically die for someone, no. I am not a martyr. I was a target. I stayed voluntarily because when I came to Christ, I gave up self. I also put down any human, unregenerate philosophies about my need or right to be happy. I am not of this world. I do not live for this world. The spiritual realm is far more sure than what I see. Most people cannot leave knowing they will intentionally be single until the death of that spouse.

I live for the witness of Jesus Christ. I live for the value of that shed blood for the forgiveness of sin. Is my sin of lesser evil than that of a narcissist? The world's wisdom keeps telling us what we should think or feel. It is foolishness to God. Man's ways are not God's ways.

It is the world that is leading countless families and marriages to destruction as they seem to have convinced even the faithful that the only way out is to discard and divorce the unlovely. Where would I be had Christ discarded me? I am no less unlovely.

There is, was; a certain arrogance in evaluating someone else's helpless state (re: PD). I was not placed in my marriage by accident. I believe in divine sovereignty, I came to
Christ because of my unhealthy marriage. I stayed because the bible specifically tells one who comes to Christ after being married to stay. He was supposed to have been a Christian from the beginning. That is God's business to sort out, though I found it incredulous.

God in all His wisdom knew what I needed, to become more like His son and to work out of me that which He finds unholy. To truly love someone incapable of love, is a very Christlike virtue. (Father forgive them for they know not what they do.

I know I am speaking on a somewhat lofty level, but these are my convictions. Someone else married to the same man may not have experienced any of the same pains. I did not die from it, I learned. I continue to learn.

Getting out is not leaving forever. It could be a season for personal growth. Regardless, it is not a time to go find someone else. It may be for spiritual renewal, rest from the situation or safety. I believe commitment is forever. Not being in someone's presence is not the same as divorce. We can philosophically wrestle this until we have it come out on our terms not God's.

I would not change an instance. My sons said goodbye to their father, though limited in reciprocal emotion with great love. I was the only person after his passing who spoke kind things about him. But they all learned acceptance, forgiveness, patience and humility by his life. They also picked up some honest skills and masculine traits from him. He was not a worthless soul, just very damaged.

If I could reveal all that God has taught me about himself, love, myself and the unseen world of evil I could write a book. We all need to make our own choices. Paul made choices and got pretty beat up for it along the way, but he stayed faithful.

I hope I have addressed your curiosities.

[SonofThunder]

TragedyorHope,

Thank you for sharing your convictions and for entertaining my questions.  I fully respect your position and opinions.  I also can appreciate your brave personal choices to faithfully remain in the difficult marriage based on those convictions and it seems that now, in the experiences of his passing, you have retained the same confidence and convictions that you had prior to his passing, and throughout much of the marriage span. I can only assume that it is now very reassuring to determine that if you had to repeat the prior experiences, you would make the same choices, based on your focus on Christ.

I believe these types of choices are up to each individual here and that so many variables are involved with the dynamics that exist in each marriage and the individuals involved, including choices made by the inclusion of faith factors.   As you well stated, you and I may differ in opinion on some matters regarding marriage, and I respect and enjoy the variety of opinions here and each individuals choices.  I enjoy thinking deeply and asking tough questions that arise (as long as I dont cross the lines of the forum's rules in doing so) 😉 , but i personally believe the variety of thoughts from everyone adds to the fruitful discussions. 

So again i greatly appreciate your input to this thread on emotional abuse and separation/divorce regarding.  Must respect and appreciation of you.

SoT

[tragedy or hope]

SoT, and all;

Thanks for your response. You are right on all of your observations. I so agree. We are all created with such different levels of emotional makeup. I am also surprised at my own strength. Early on in the marriage, when I came to saving faith, God led me to a weekly international bible study, for which I did homework, participated in discussion and learned line upon line and precept upon precept. I did this for about 40 years.

Only God knows what tomorrow will bring but all along He strengthened and prepared me.

Yesterday He gave me what I have been waiting on Him for... Scripture about all of what I have lived. I was going to bed and turned on something biblical on YouTube. This verse was  being recited. It is my answer.

Philippians
3:13-14
"Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended, but this one thing I know; Forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth to those things which are before, I press forward toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God."

I am grateful to know God Himself encourages me to let go of the very lengthy test of my commitment and faith.  Sometimes I used to think I was born to be His witness to my husband who was not able to hear anyone else about faith and who God is. He did not argue or try to stifle the things I told him as I was learning new things. He did have hubris with others, but accepted my comments because my nose was in the Word daily.

The one thing I left out of my previous post is something I shared on another thread by Elizabeth Elliott, whose husband was murdered by the people with whom he came to share the gospel and people he knew.

She said, her definition of suffering is; "Having something we don't want, or wanting something we don't have."  Jesus said in this life we will have trials and sufferings. It is unavoidable. I imagine there are some who think they can thwart it or change it to something they think they can tolerate, but then it isn't suffering is it?

In the 12 step programs I learned that we have to accept what we have before we can have what we want. This in regards to living with difficult people ie; the alcoholic. But to me this is a much more far reaching statement.

It contributed to my ability to love a man who could not love back.  I learned that acceptance was the answer to all of my problems in God's world.

I was in the fight of my life when I was unwilling to accept life on life's terms. It is very easy to illumine the suffering and disregard the joys we have in Christ. They do not compare.

Where is growth without suffering? I learned to let go and let God. I can't change one hair on my own head... I don't believe I will ever change God's prescribed plan for my life. Much of that was learned in the midst of suffering. Much joy and intimacy with God was my comfort and my reward. I am grateful.

And now I move on. I pray for reprieve, but I am no fair-haired child of God who gets out of pain in this forsaken world. It will be over when I see Him in all of His glory face to face. Until then it is Christ whose promise to sustain me I can trust. Amen.

[SonofThunder]

TragedyorHope,

I am so joyed that you have now found that particular verse to come alongside you in support, as you face the road ahead. In your circumstances and timing you describe, the verse was brought forth in God's perfect timing, as you move along to the next chapter in your life, you knowing for yourself that God that flipped the suffering page. I am so excited for you in your future.

You wrote: "Jesus said in this life we will have trials and sufferings. It is unavoidable. I imagine there are some who think they can thwart it or change it to something they think they can tolerate, but then it isn't suffering is it?"

I believe this well-applies to true circumstances that are out of my control, such as was the case with Paul's physical ailment back in his day, in which he asked for it to be removed multiple times and realized that God was not removing, nor could he self-remove.

But I also believe that when God has provided a means for my self-control to end the suffering, then I may just be turning down God's "yes" to my answered prayer if I refuse to accept the provided means.  I also believe though, that if the means available to relieve suffering, is a means which the Bible somehow advises against, then that means (imo) may not one God provided me, but one I have fabricated. 

Ive discussed plenty elsewhere regarding my opinions on God's allowing separation and divorce and on Mark chapter 10's focus on Jesus inserting his wise and creative reply to the Pharisees on marriages that should not have occurred in the first place vs their comment on divorce.  I will not therefore, further expand there.  But I believe that divorce, for valid reasons of intentional emotional and therefore physical abuse, is a method of relief that God provides to a sin-filled world, and also can be a catalyst used positively by God, allowing some to enter the crucible of suffering to bring about desired change.  I understand you and I differ on this and it is wonderful that we can do so in friendship.

It has been suggested that Paul's specific ailment may have been severe migraines or vision problems.  Assuming that is the case, if Paul's story happened today, he might have not been on his knees asking for relief, but simply up on his feet at the pharmacy, picking up a migraine prescription and a new pair of sandals, and then over to his appointment at the ophthalmologist.  Therefore, modern technology has relieved suffering, and I find no Biblical writings that ask me to suffer when relief methods have been provided. 

In the case of divorce and emotional abuse, you and I may differ on what roads we have in front of us to choose, and I believe that a variety of verses make multiple roads available, but again, my circumstances and my beliefs are my own, and I believe I and everyone else here manages their own circumstances, yet walk together in this community that deals with PD people in their lives. 

You have just written about the new road ahead of you and for that and you, i am joyed.  Thanks for your valuable contributions to the discussion.

SoT

[Mary]

It is very easy to illumine the suffering and disregard the joys we have in Christ. They do not compare.

Where is growth without suffering? I learned to let go and let God. I can't change one hair on my own head... I don't believe I will ever change God's prescribed plan for my life. Much of that was learned in the midst of suffering. Much joy and intimacy with God was my comfort and my reward. I am grateful.

And now I move on. I pray for reprieve, but I am no fair-haired child of God who gets out of pain in this forsaken world. It will be over when I see Him in all of His glory face to face. Until then it is Christ whose promise to sustain me I can trust. Amen.

ToH,
You describe the space I am in. It is so easy to focus on the suffering instead of on the multiple, multiple ways God is reaching down to lift me up. Why then do I wallow in self-pity and fear when the God of the universe is meeting me thought by thought, moment by moment with his presence? I know He will defend me. I know He will provide. He always has. Your example increases my resolve.
Thank you,
Mary

[1footouttadefog]

Is accepting that ones partner has killed the marriage, ie disengaged from it, in all manners, physical, emotional, social, spiritual, etc etc  and moving on.

Is it possible for a spouse to break the marriage covenant despite there still existing a legal marriage. 


If a sinful, unrepentant and even blasphemous partner has severed all marriage ties and only brings lies, negativity and abuse to the table, is the partner actually ending the marriage by filing for divorce.  Perhaps they are merely accepting what the other has already done when filing and moving on. 

Is staying and enabling abuse and living a lie that a marriage exist, actually what God want in such a case?

[SonofThunder]

Is accepting that ones partner has killed the marriage, ie disengaged from it, in all manners, physical, emotional, social, spiritual, etc etc  and moving on.

Is it possible for a spouse to break the marriage covenant despite there still existing a legal marriage. 


If a sinful, unrepentant and even blasphemous partner has severed all marriage ties and only brings lies, negativity and abuse to the table, is the partner actually ending the marriage by filing for divorce.  Perhaps they are merely accepting what the other has already done when filing and moving on. 

Is staying and enabling abuse and living a lie that a marriage exist, actually what God want in such a case?

Hi 1foot,

Conversations around similar questions are on the 4 pages of this thread.  I think there may be another thread topic that ive had, discussing in a similar vein...but Im happy to be corrected if wrong. 

SoT

[1footouttadefog]

You have stated yourself that the same topic has been batted around for several pages.  So I guess I am not alone in any redundancy.

I was merely trying to point out that these marriages take two people.  The issue of separating or enduring are not unilateral. 

It is indeed worth considering the actions of the other party.  Perhaps some of of us have been enduring to preserve a relationship that ceased to exist years or even decades ago.

If you have a wreck of a building that used to be a school, you can continue to call it a school.  It might no longer have teachers, students, books or desks, but you can continue to call it a school.  Perhaps with time it might not even have windows or a roof, and walls might be falling in and we can still call it a school.  In reality it quit being a school when the last lesson was taught. 

Let no one separate what God put together.  There are two with the ability to make the separation.  If two people are still in the house are they necessarily still a couple.  Are they still actually together.  What defines, Biblically speaking whether or not a marriage has been torn assunder?

Did the Iraelites always move to the foreign nation when they adopted it's Idols as their own, or did they sometimes being them right into the homes and temples within Israel?

Perhaps in some cases,  the nons don't have as much say about whether the marriage is broken or not as they would like to believe.

[SonofThunder]

Hi SoT,
Thank you for clarifying that misunderstanding!

The verses you laid out are so interesting. Through this thread/study, it's apparent that God is really trying to communicate his heart and vision to us through the topic of marriage and divorce--woven through the old and new testaments in varying contexts.

On the Deuteronomy 24 reference, about remarriage not allowed to the same person after divorce, I find Jeremiah 3 mind blowing. God is divorced?!! But still wants Israel, pictured as his wife, to return to him, despite Deuteronomy 24?

Jer 3:3 They say, If a man put away his wife, and she go from him, and become another man's, shall he return unto her again? shall not that land be greatly polluted? but thou hast played the harlot with many lovers; yet return again to me, saith the Lord.

Jer 3:8 And I saw, when for all the causes whereby backsliding Israel committed adultery I had put her away, and given her a bill of divorce; yet her treacherous sister Judah feared not, but went and played the harlot also.

Jer 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you:

Jer 3:20 Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the Lord.

This makes me think of the story of when the disciples picked and ate corn on the Sabbath, but Jesus said in that case it was fine. The law had its place but it had a purpose and a limit. Maybe that applies here, where God is allowing Himself to re-associate with His former wife, Israel. We also see Him asking Hosea to do the same with his unfaithful wife.

At any rate, it shocks me that God is divorced, and that He knows that abandonment and rejection. And I think through His dealings with Israel, shows His fierce love and jealousy and passion for me. Amazing love--blows me away.

Mary

PS-A little book I've enjoyed that goes way in depth on this topic:
https://nogreaterjoy.org/shop/the-bible-on-divorce-and-remarriage

Hello again Mary,

An interesting section of verses which i have been recently focused upon is Jeremiah 31:31-32.  God says:

" 31 "Behold, days are coming," declares the Lord, "when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them," declares the Lord."

The people broke the covenant agreement and God divorced them (God's husband/bride covenant reference).  The insertion by God of "although i was a husband to them", is to state that God did his good part in the marital agreement/covenant, and therefore it makes the divorce all the more necessary (as God is a just God) and angering to him, because God was faithful and his 'bride' was self-focused.  One commentary I read, compares the idolatry of the people to the action of a whore (repetitive chosen infidelity).  Therefore, in consideration of that thought, negating a covenant marital agreement by self-idolization (including neglect and emotional abuse) is imo, no different than infidelity, so says God the 'husband'. 

Doesn't matter if it's the husband or the bride in the covenant, as the agreement is broken in the idolatry.  Now God makes purposeful conditional covenants (Mosaic) and unconditional covenants (all other ones), but truly they all are 'conditional' in a sense, because they rely on the integrity of God himself, which is 100% trustworthy. 

Therefore those who say that the Bible is strictly focused on sexual infidelity in divorce, may want to consider this verse, as God the faithful husband, was undeservingly cheated on by his self-focused, sin-repetitive bride. 

SoT

[Mary]

Hi SoT,
Here are some of my thoughts.
So for the nation of Israel, worshipping other gods (idols) was considered infidelity.

Your contention is that a spouses that idolize themselves likewise are unfaithful. I don't think it's one size fits all, and many of us here find ourselves in the thick of muddy waters.

You could look at this also from the adultery angle (Matt 5:28) or from the abandonment angle (I Cor 7:15).

(Matt 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.) Plenty of spouses have abandoned the marriage bed to love themselves and their screens.

1 Corinthians 7:15
(But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.) This is pretty clear that if the spouse as bound and determined to go, let them leave. Plenty of us on this site have experienced the emotional abandonment of a spouse. Does this call for legal divorce, separation, or merely detaching? There are so many variables, medical issues, and stress levels. We need the Holy Spirit's guidance and good counsel.

The verse that follows the ones you quoted is really beautiful. At some point they do turn back. Would this not be wonderful? To much to hope for it seems. What was God thinking??? I know that love bears all things, believes, hopes, endures. But I also see that when they were unfaithful, there was a barrier.

33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the Lord, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

Mary

[SonofThunder]

Mary thanks for the extra thoughts.  Im focusing, regarding that Jeremiah verse, on why God specifically inserted the word 'husband'.  I personally believe it is a carefully chosen word for the meaning it implies.  I also believe that personality disorders are a hyper-focus on self need, which weighs heavier than all else, causing them to abuse in many ways, in order to have their needs met. 

I also believe that although God breaks covenants (divorces), his love (true definition) never ceases.  Love for his creation, love for his own plan and his commitment to fulfill promises.  I also believe that his "write it in their hearts" takes away any excuse for any human being, to say they have no knowledge of their creator.  Israel will turn back eventually, when the new covenant prophesy is finally fulfilled in that chosen land, but the Hebrew generations he divorced suffered through the consequences of their infidelity. 

Yes, those verses are about the beautiful, grace-filled new covenant, but also a stark 'husband' comparison (glorifying God in his faithfulnness) to what occurs when a spouse is unfaithful to covenant promises. 

SoT

[tragedy or hope]

It has been said that the bible is readable, (the kjv) to a 5th grader. I have been looking off and on at some of these posts. What stands out to me is the level of "acrobatics, gymnastics" if you will that go into trying to interpret the truth.

Israel is a people reflecting how God loves his people. It is by far separate from His standard for marriage. Read the book of Hosea. It is a reflection of a man who took back his adulterous wife. Why would God give us this horrible story? His great love for a wayward people and also that we understand the simplicity of his standards.

The only one we need to live for is our King, Christ. We live for an audience of one. And that not even ourselves. I see no where in scripture that I am here to be happy or self-fulfilled. I do know that I am here to be holy and I do have the law of God written in my heart.

It's pretty easy to realize what is right and wrong.  When i let my will and my flesh get in the way my decisions become something of a murky pond. There is simplicity in obedience and following the "cloud, and the fire." God does not expect sophistication from us, He knows we are but dust and to dust we will return.

Wisdom comes from the simplicity of God's word. He is not trying to keep secrets or make us feel we are abandoned by His truth. It is simple as are His commands.We as flesh will do what we will and it is not always God's will.

Sometimes we do what we will in spite of God's simple commands.
Hence, Heaven came down and mercy saved my soul.

[SonofThunder]

ToH,

Thanks for your contribution to the conversation.  You wrote: "His great love for a wayward people".   I can agree on that comment.

-I am surely able to continue to love my stbx even in a divorce from a legal marital contract.  *Even if she doesn't choose to love.   

-I can surely continue to love my stbx even if a marital covenant was not upheld by both parties in the agreement.   *Even if she doesn't choose to love.   

From my studies of the Bible, i have determined that God's love for his creation of mankind who became wayward; his love of himself; his love of his plan/will, continues on even though God allows covenant-breakers to suffer through covenant-breaking consequences because of their waywardness to the covenant agreement.

In my studies, i can conclude that God upholds his unconditional promises in his integrity, and designs a way for love, relationship and his good plans to continue; forever (a conditional covenant on a created individual's acceptance of Christ's gift/work on the cross). 

1. Do you believe that a separation and/or divorce is a cancellation or nullification of love?   

2. Is it possible that a relationship with a ex-spouse can continue in a possible way that is amicable, even after separation and/or divorce? 

3. How do you ToH, define love?  (Specifically the word usage in the comment at the top, in which we can agree).

SoT

[tragedy or hope]

Hi SoT,
"Greater love hath no man than this, that lay down life for his friend. To which Christ was referring but he was also teaching a doctrine

Love your neighbor as yourself... put into practice; forgiveness. How many times did Christ tell the apostles we should forgive? 70x7. Meaning, over and over and over. endlessly as God forgives us. This is greatest kind of love because it is what God has done for us through Christ... blotted out our transgressions against him.

Christ  said to his father on the cross... Father forgive them for they know not what they do. Some did not know they were killing the son of God. Christ intervened for people who hated them and asked God to forgive people who had no clue they were crucifying the son of
God.

God's love is unconditional. He hung on a cross for the just and unjust, while we were yet sinners Christ died for us.

We get into the murky water when we refuse to take God at his word. Deception has been going on since the garden, and so our enemy who wants to kill and destroy what God holds sacred has had at least 5,000 years to hone his skill and work in the hearts of sinful men.

From that perspective, he has convinced through God's people who neither want or care about a relationship with Christ, (so are they really his?) with a "me too!" kind of outlook.. If I matter to God, my feelings must be valid and I must act to make myself happy because after all I should be "happy" too!

Doctrinally I don't believe we are here to make ourselves happy. Because i have given myself to
Christ,  and obedience to his definition of love. It is my duty and my delight.  After losing my husband, I feel relief but I also have enough time away from the pain to realize all of the ways God intervened with HIS love when I had none from my unpdh. Also, every good and perfect gift is from above, and God gave me many in those 50+ years. They even included my hard to live with spouse.

I learned to love him for who he was, not what I thought would make me happy. I lived around his inadequacies as he did mine.

God is clear about what he expects of us and we can see the church crumbling with "new' ways to see scripture

True love is the giving up self. I Corinthians 13 says it all  and it is under no conditions. There are no "yes buts..."

Probably 50 years ago there was far fewer divorce in the church. (by church I mean the "called out ones" not the building). Since then, it has not only become acceptable but now even some men who have been divorced are becoming pastors.

The bible says it not for private interpretation. I can't make it say what makes me feel better or makes my life easier. And finally, we have no place to "Justify" our behavior. That is the work of
God through  Christ.

In conclusion...love one another as Christ loved the Church and gave himself up for it. He died for people who would just as likely kill him. I gave up my life at the moment of my salvation to enter into the new life of forgiveness. As Christ has forgiven us so we should forgive one another. Life is messy, we are all sinners. The greatest act of love is forgiving someone who cannot ask for it or cannot see their own sin.

i recognize emotions but I do not base my life decisions so much on what i feel but what will please my audience of one. This life is fleeting. The afterlife is eternal. I am here on the earth as a believer to please God not myself. He does not need me for anything and i don't need to teach or condition anyone to my liking, that is God's business.

I realize our outlook on scripture is much different and so i see no middle ground. God forgives and I am his, so I need also to forgive. Marriage is for the world to see what
Christ is to his church. Everyone is a sinner, everyone is unpleasant at times, one personality quirk or even mental illness to me does not negate the marriage. No one is good in God's eyes, our hearts are desperately wicked. Our "love" is flawed and selfish if not given in the spirit who is able to help us do more than we could ever ask or think.

I think defining love is a very important question in this culture.
We all have different interpretations based on our experiences. What is love to one could look like indifference to another. This is why I choose to see love according to God's definition. It is pure, complete, without selfishness and eternal.

Thanks so much SoT. I pray God will move you to do what is right before Him.

I Corinthians 13
1 "Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, and have not charity, I am become as sounding brass, or a tinkling cymbal.

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.

4 Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,

5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;

6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;

7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.

8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.

10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

13 And now abideth faith, hope, charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity."

[SonofThunder]

Tragedy or Hope,

Thank you for taking the time to consider and answer my questions.  I also agree with:

"I  realize our outlook on scripture is much different and so i see no middle ground."

I am also glad that we can have our differences and take part in this type of productive dialog in a friendly manner.  Thanks also for your prayers as I continue forward in my current direction, which I believe is the direction that God is having me go at this time.  Until my soul is restless toward his leading in another direction, i will stay the course. 

Like precious metals and rough gemstones going through the refining fires and cutting to shed off impurities, they afterward, find themselves glistening in purity and beautifully shaped; utilized in the finest settings at the hand of the master jeweler.  There is many times, much good on the other side of hardship. 

See you around the boards,

SoT

[1footouttadefog]

God'srelationship with Israel is very much parralelled with a Man and  a woman marriage in the Bible.

The idea of the Passover lamb is revisited when the Prophet confronts King Davod and his adultery. 

The Idea of Harlotry and adultery are juxtaposed with Idolotry and spiritual infidelity.  This is illustrated in very graphic terms in Ezekiel when Israel is compared to women who desire Chariot drivers based on the equine proportions of their sex organs.  There are also two sisters described in the same book with graphic imagery. 

Yes Indeed Hosea is an interesting story in that God asked Hosea to do something that would have normally been an unclean act.  I find it not unlike when Peter was instructed in the dream to partake of unclean animals. God and God alone can cleanse that which is unclean and call it whole. 

My question still remains, is it possible in a marriage for things to be broken and we refuse to accept it.  Is it possible it's over and broken regardless of if we call it and whether someone moves move on or not. 

If there is a car wreck on the highway does that fact change if the owners of the cars  push them to the shoulder sit in them for the next 40 years and act like the cars are still whole. 

Let me clarify, I am not lumping in leaving an abusive marriage with remarrying.  These are two separate topics.  However perhaps some due to believes about remarriage find that the idea a separation would be harder in that it involves living a life that would have other challenges morally. 

[SonofThunder]

God'srelationship with Israel is very much parralelled with a Man and  a woman marriage in the Bible.

The idea of the Passover lamb is revisited when the Prophet confronts King Davod and his adultery. 

The Idea of Harlotry and adultery are juxtaposed with Idolotry and spiritual infidelity.  This is illustrated in very graphic terms in Ezekiel when Israel is compared to women who desire Chariot drivers based on the equine proportions of their sex organs.  There are also two sisters described in the same book with graphic imagery. 

Yes Indeed Hosea is an interesting story in that God asked Hosea to do something that would have normally been an unclean act.  I find it not unlike when Peter was instructed in the dream to partake of unclean animals. God and God alone can cleanse that which is unclean and call it whole. 

My question still remains, is it possible in a marriage for things to be broken and we refuse to accept it.  Is it possible it's over and broken regardless of if we call it and whether someone moves move on or not. 

If there is a car wreck on the highway does that fact change if the owners of the cars  push them to the shoulder sit in them for the next 40 years and act like the cars are still whole. 

Let me clarify, I am not lumping in leaving an abusive marriage with remarrying.  These are two separate topics.  However perhaps some due to believes about remarriage find that the idea a separation would be harder in that it involves living a life that would have other challenges morally.

1Foot,

We need a gif emoji here on Out of the FOG of a smiley patiently waiting for the show to begin, while quietly eating popcorn.... 😏

Your 'cars on the side of the road' analogy reminds me of the 40 years of wilderness wandering.  The God-untrusting generation who got in the wreck kept going to the DMV and renewed the tags every year while the cars sit and gather rust. 

Im choosing to be in the next generation who will trust God with the outcome, call the wrecker finally and go inhabit the new land where peace exists, but where i must do the difficult work of 'taking the land'.  God required difficult and dangerous work to inhabit the good Canaan land of 'milk and honey' of calm and hopeful healing, which God has provided me through years of education, experience and planning. 

I will enjoy my peace in gratitude and continue to love difficult people. 

SoT

[tragedy or hope]

Just thought I would take a minute to see what's going on here. So on my end...

Most amazing to me without my unpdh... God has given me good memories I know at his passing we were so much strangers as my behaviors caused him to be unable to do what he had done for 50 years.

[Mary]

Thank you for sharing. I keep learning from you T/H.
Mary

[tragedy or hope]

Indeed I am free. Free from daily anxiety, hypervigilance, thinking ahead, evaluating what is really going on... caretaking another soul who seemed to be in pain on a regular basis.
Tuesday of thanksgiving week it will be a year since my unpdh passed. It is sad when anyone leaves this world, because there is a sacredness to life. I have not great words of wisdom.
I am, "suffering" if you will the years of emotional isolation from other people. I spent all of my emotional energy on survival. It was very difficult trying to maintain any real relationship as npdh interfered somehow. to
"Go and do" he said, but the control came out in other ways. It's extremely difficult to admit my sins of omission. Not telling the truth about the harshness in my life. Its a dichotomy. I tried to enjoy every moment that was mine, but in the back of my mind the craziness of life at home was always like me having to wear a dark invisible cloak. No one wants to hear the daily crazies we live/ lived.
I have since steered several people to this site.

I know we all expect life to be free of real pain... may I suggest the book of Job or perhaps the book of James. I got through it by counting all joy wnen I encountered various trials which came upon me for my testing.

You know, God never told Job he gave Satan permission to test him.  Even at the end of the book, God confronts Job, who realizes im spite of all of his hardships, he needed to repent! The pride of thinking he understood God? You be the investigator. God loved Job, considered him His servant and a faithful man, yet never told HIM that, or made it easy on him. And Job never turned from what he knew to be true about God to his friends. He thought he knew more than he did and I think that was the reason for the "come upance" at the books end. God loved Job and never caused him harm. That came directly from satan. What a journey!