Dads getting worse with being able to cope with things mentally but wont listen

[p123]

Hes getting worse. He worries about everything. Expects everything to be done for him.
He lives alone and basically expects his sons to deal with everything. Its just not possible.

I think he suffers from depression/anxiety (have experience myself) but, despite many attempts to get him to see a doctor he refuses.
His views on mental illness are basically "well you just need to pull your socks up a bit". Hmmmm - you can imagine why he knows nothing about what I've been through.....

He'd be WAY better off in a home to be honest. Someone to fuss over him 24/7. BUT in his head a "home" means something like a workhouse out of the Charles Dickens era.....

So what do I do? Ignore it and think well if you're not going to listen to anyone then struggle on?

[Andeza]

Exactly that. Nothing you can do really until a doctor declares him incompetent, which won't happen if you're picking up all the slack by the way.

[square]

Tell him to pull up his socks a bit.

[Sneezy]

So what do I do? Ignore it and think well if you're not going to listen to anyone then struggle on?

You can't fix your dad's problems for him.  And honestly, he doesn't want you to.  It's the problems and the endless complaining that are sustaining him.  This is his supply.  It's what he needs to carry on.  If he didn't have endless problems and if he wasn't suffering so and if his son (that's you) wasn't so mean to him, then he would (in his mind) have nothing.  It's incredibly sad.  And you have been raised to be "a fixer" so you want to fix this.  But you can't.  In fact, if you ignore it and leave him to carry on and then something bad happens, it's all more likely to get fixed (by a doctor or a social worker or someone else).

It's so hard to drop the rope, p123.  I know because I've tried.  You probably won't be able to drop it completely, but give it a little slack. 

[SunnyMeadow]

All good advice above and square's post made me laugh; short and to the point.

I have to keep in mind that my mother is a fully grown woman, an adult who makes her own decisions. Many of her decisions, especially financial ones are terrible but they are hers to make. I am a fixer, raised to be a fixer and a helper so I get wanting to jump in and help with things. What works for me is keeping in mind and repeating to myself that she's an adult and is free to make her own decisions and then let her go at it. I wouldn't want someone telling me how to deal with my life because I get to make those decisions, good or bad. I feel the same about my mother.

So what do I do? Ignore it and think well if you're not going to listen to anyone then struggle on?

Yes, do this. But also I'd back away from these topics, change the subject often. If it keeps happening don't talk to him as much. You can always have your own topics of easy, lighthearted, and generic topics to talk about. Fill the time talking to him with things of your own choosing.

[nanotech]

I think if you're like me, and you've been allocated the 'fixer' role, then it's hard not to look for solutions-  but finding them always means they are swiftly batted away.
They don't want a solution. Not unless it involves us leaving our family of choice, sacrificing our own lives and dedicating ourselves totally to them.
This is what they always want.
But they can't say that. They know that in the society  they live in, children grow up and lead their own lives.
They've never been a fan of this social norm!
They may not be conscious of their inability to see their child as separate from them.

Our solutions look great to us because they ARE great! We are being supportive! But to a narcissist, it isn't what they want. Solutions that involve their taking responsibility for themselves, are abhorrent to them. So they will show disdain and then  they will find incredibly facile/flimsy/ ridiculous reasons to reject them, and will continue to complain. 
Complaining keeps them nicely in victim mode, which is where they love residing.
Accepting solutions would mean accepting that their child was a separate individual rather than an extra in their film.

[lkdrymom]

So what do I do? Ignore it and think well if you're not going to listen to anyone then struggle on?

You can't fix your dad's problems for him.  And honestly, he doesn't want you to.  It's the problems and the endless complaining that are sustaining him.  This is his supply.  It's what he needs to carry on.  If he didn't have endless problems and if he wasn't suffering so and if his son (that's you) wasn't so mean to him, then he would (in his mind) have nothing.  It's incredibly sad.  And you have been raised to be "a fixer" so you want to fix this.  But you can't.  In fact, if you ignore it and leave him to carry on and then something bad happens, it's all more likely to get fixed (by a doctor or a social worker or someone else).

It's so hard to drop the rope, p123.  I know because I've tried.  You probably won't be able to drop it completely, but give it a little slack.

This is so true.  They really don't want their problems fixed because that takes the focus off of them and quite frankly they have nothing else to think about. My father got like this too. Always some imaginary crisis and even when I showed him there was nothing wrong he refused to believe me. And then you get frustrated because you don't have the time for this BS.

I would arrange for a few tours of some assisted living facilities and show up at his place and tell him he is coming with you now to see or he is to never call you again with his neverending issues. I was lucky, my father wanted to go to AL. Prior to that he was getting very anxious and would call 911 for no good reason.  If he refuses to even look then tell him he gets one phone call a week and one 2 hour visit a month from you and THAT IS IT.

[p123]

Exactly that. Nothing you can do really until a doctor declares him incompetent, which won't happen if you're picking up all the slack by the way.

His doctor is useless. I've tried to have a chat no luck.

He went through a phase of calling for an ambulance all the time, then it was phoning the doctor every day to visit. That pretty much got him banned from ambulances and also the doctor did get annoyed at that too.

BUT nothing gets done....

[p123]

Tell him to pull up his socks a bit.

Very tempted....

Its difficult to forget how he treated me many many years ago (before I worked out that telling him my mental health problems was pointless). It was my first job, placement from college. Away from home, all alone. It was tough on me. All I got from him was "you should try working in a factory all day not sitting on your backside doing nothing drinking tea and coffee, pull yourself together and get on with it". I remember it well - like that helped NOT.

[p123]

So what do I do? Ignore it and think well if you're not going to listen to anyone then struggle on?

You can't fix your dad's problems for him.  And honestly, he doesn't want you to.  It's the problems and the endless complaining that are sustaining him.  This is his supply.  It's what he needs to carry on.  If he didn't have endless problems and if he wasn't suffering so and if his son (that's you) wasn't so mean to him, then he would (in his mind) have nothing.  It's incredibly sad.  And you have been raised to be "a fixer" so you want to fix this.  But you can't.  In fact, if you ignore it and leave him to carry on and then something bad happens, it's all more likely to get fixed (by a doctor or a social worker or someone else).

It's so hard to drop the rope, p123.  I know because I've tried.  You probably won't be able to drop it completely, but give it a little slack.

Yeh know what you mean.... Im starting to learn....

He'll moan and moan and moan and want me to come up with a solution for him. I dont mind that. I'll get a solution and he wont do it. Or have some issue with it. Its like sometimes he prefers things screwed up!

So I do now think "oh well I tried"

[p123]

I think if you're like me, and you've been allocated the 'fixer' role, then it's hard not to look for solutions-  but finding them always means they are swiftly batted away.
They don't want a solution. Not unless it involves us leaving our family of choice, sacrificing our own lives and dedicating ourselves totally to them.
This is what they always want.
But they can't say that. They know that in the society  they live in, children grow up and lead their own lives.
They've never been a fan of this social norm!
They may not be conscious of their inability to see their child as separate from them.

Our solutions look great to us because they ARE great! We are being supportive! But to a narcissist, it isn't what they want. Solutions that involve their taking responsibility for themselves, are abhorrent to them. So they will show disdain and then  they will find incredibly facile/flimsy/ ridiculous reasons to reject them, and will continue to complain. 
Complaining keeps them nicely in victim mode, which is where they love residing.
Accepting solutions would mean accepting that their child was a separate individual rather than an extra in their film.

Yep. Im away on hols next week. Only a week camping in Devon! You'd have thought I was emigrating to Australia.
Literally 20 times hes said "I dont know who will look after me when you're away or if I'll have food left".

Bear in mind hes got "meals on wheels" and a large freezer he deliberately keeps low stock. So I said "well I''ll just buy you more this week"
"Oh no no I dont want to spend that much in one week". Oh well starve then.....

As you say, I can imagine the joy he'd have if I said "look Dad Im not leaving you alone, I'll cancel my holiday". He'd be over the moon. Never, ever happening. In fact, the more he moans the more it makes me want to book more holidays.

Not sure if I mentioned, many years aho I went to spain for 5 days (BIL has an apartment there so it was like a cheapie long weekend). He moaned. Then I told him I was going to Florida for 3 weeks.

He went mad. Told me I was selfish and that no-one needed 2 holidays in one year. I needed to take a good luck at how I behaved and how I treated people. Of course, now I realise it was him who was the selfish one, who was only concerned about his "supply".

We didnt speak for a bit (yay!). He actually told me I had to cancel it. At the time, I should have just said "NO!!" but I didnt. So he asked me every week if I'd cancelled it until I had enough. I know Im not great now but honestly think I'd be divorced by now if I hadnt changed things. I think Dad wanted that all along though to be honest.

[Cat of the Canals]

He'll moan and moan and moan and want me to come up with a solution for him. I dont mind that. I'll get a solution and he wont do it. Or have some issue with it.

There's a great Medium Chill response for this.
"This is not my problem. If you want to make it my problem I will find a solution to this that suits me and there is every chance that it will not suit you. If you want a solution that suits you, then you need to go work on that & leave me out of it."

I think you could augment it to suit your particular conversations with your dad.
"If you want me to work out your grocery worries for you, I'll be doing it on my terms, not yours." Then you arrange for an extra delivery, or buy extra frozen goods, and let him complain until he's blue in the face. "I told you if you made your grocery concerns my problem, I was going to find my own solution. You can either accept that or take care of the groceries yourself from now on."

[Boat Babe]

God, he sounds exhausting. My feeling is that you need to do some boundaries work. What you can live with and what you won't. Write it down. Talk it over. Do art around them. Sit with them a while. Then find your best way (most effective, protective and mindful) to hold those boundaries without JADEing. Practice useful MC and grey rock sentences/answers.

These can be developed to ninja level skills eventually. 

Also, if you can find some time for yourself every day and do some breathing, yoga, and other body based practices to soothe your stressed body this will make setting and holding boundaries that bit easier.

Your boundaries will create the space and conditions for greater healing from your father's unreasonable, unpleasant and controlling behaviour.  Sending hugs.

[square]

By "talk it over" you mean with us, right?

NOT HIS DAD.

[Boat Babe]

By "talk it over" you mean with us, right?

NOT HIS DAD.

God, yes!

[p123]

Just been away for the week camping with the family.

I phoned him - wish I hadn't. He can't breathe, he feels ill. First person ever to have critical hayfever. Then I get "so you said you were probably coming home a few days early". Eh? No I did not say that.

"Oh well I might be able to manage a few more days". Jeez.

I didn't phone him rest of the time away then until I got back last night. Not having him trying his level best to sabotage my time away with my family and lay it on thick how bad a son I was leaving him all alone.

I dont think I'll EVER EVER get how you can do this to someone.... I know I should know but he just does not give a monkeys about anyone else apart from himself.

[Sneezy]

he just does not give a monkeys about anyone else apart from himself.

Yep, that is a classic definition of a narcissist.  Ask yourself - how would you feel if your adult child/children went away for a couple weeks and had a nice vacation?  I know how I feel when that happens to me.  I am soooooo happy that my kids get a chance to relax and unwind.  It makes me happy for them!  In fact, both of my adult children have taken trips to other countries where I have hardly been able to text them for weeks at a time, and I was THRILLED for them.  What wonderful opportunities they have to see the world.  I would never want to hold them back.

So the fact that your dad is begrudging you a family get-away tells you all you need to know.  Hang in there 

[p123]

Sneezy - to be honest I think he actively hates it that someone else is doing something nice. Definitely hates it when I do something with kids - sure in his head it means they're getting my attention and hes not.

Thing is I've giving him every opportunity. If I invite him out he refuses anyway. And hes burnt his bridges with my wife long ago - all his fault.

I just hope I never get like that. At the moment, hes just a bitter old man.

[Starboard Song]

So I do now think "oh well I tried"

It is hard work and agony, but you've made it. You can see the promised land and start to enjoy its lovely climate. Well done, you!

[p123]

Wife worked in a different part of the country this weekend. Her employer offered to pay hotel etc for me and our daughter too....

Didn't tell Dad. I just knew he'd have some comment on it. Probably "oh you don't want to do that" or "are you sure they'll pay?". Usual thing where hes pretty much clueless but still thinks he knows it all. So I didn't tell him, makes my life simpler....

I do contract work and, after 4 years its coming to an end. Dad has asked/TOLD me 5 times now that I should complain I'm not getting severance/redundancy. Ive given up explaining I don't work for them I'm self employed. ANOTHER example of Dad not having a clue how things work yet he still feels the need to poke his nose in and tell me what to do!