The pain Mom will endure for attention

[Sneezy]

My mom is a fall risk and yesterday she fell.  She was lucky that she fell into a soft patch of grass.  Anywhere else and she would be in the hospital.  She is still pretty banged up and sore.  And I am amazed at how the lies keep coming.  Today, when I called to check on her, Mom insisted that her doctor doesn't want her using a walker, or even her cane, because she needs to "use her legs" and "build up her strength."  This is, of course, complete BS.  I have been to many doctor visits with mom and every single one of her doctors, for the past several years, has told her to use a walker.  If Mom had been using a walker yesterday, there is a good chance that she would not have fallen. 

The thing I don't understand is that Mom is truly in pain.  I could tell she was in pain yesterday when the paramedic walked her back into her apartment (we all decided that she should follow up with her regular doctor, rather than go to the hospital).  And I can tell by Mom's voice today that she is hurting.  She's not faking the physical pain.  And yet, she is fighting to not use a walker or a cane, and thus she is risking more physical pain, for what???  Granted, she is getting a lot of attention right now.  Everybody is calling and stopping by to check on her.  Meals are being delivered.  She is the center of attention.  And being in pain fits her martyr narrative.  But I can not understand how or why someone would tolerate, even welcome, such pain in order to get attention.  And the risks she takes are stunning to me.  She is smart enough to realize that if she takes a fall and gets seriously injured, she will end up in a nursing home (she is currently in independent senior living).  If she ends up in a nursing home, family members will visit now and then, but she will be marginalized and get less attention in many ways.  So why take a risk of that happening?

[GentleSoul]

Sorry this is going on, I wanted to share that my late uPD husband did very similar.  He also wouldn't use a walker and had nasty falls, he was also in deep pain but lied about it.  At times pretending he wasn't in pain, other times when he wasn't, he pretended he was.

I don't understand why but I just wanted to share this so hopefully you don't feel alone in this.

I think it makes sense to them in some way, as you say and I agree, a lot of it is to do with attention seeking. 

I found it all very disturbing.

Take care.

[Sneezy]

At times pretending he wasn't in pain, other times when he wasn't, he pretended he was.

This sounds so familiar.  My mom will ignore medical advice and pretend she isn't in pain when it suits her.  Usually, this happens when it would take time or effort on her part to follow doctor's orders and she wouldn't get any credit/attention for it.  So, for example, her foot doctor has been recommending that Mom wear better shoes for several years now.  But it would take effort on Mom's part, not to mention more money, to wear the shoes the doctor recommends.  And nobody gets credit or attention for wearing sensible shoes.  So Mom ignores the foot doctor's advice and continues to suffer with aching feet.  On the other hand, Mom will make the biggest deal out of minor medical issues if it results in attention.  Her biggest thing is rashes.  She has sensitive skin, as do many people in our family.  And Mom loves to hike up her pant leg or roll up her sleeve to show everyone her awful, terrible rash (which, honestly, I have a hard time seeing most of the time - there's a lot of exaggeration around this).  A skin problem, imagined or not, will give her attention and also give her reason to bug me to take her to the store to buy lotions and creams.  I can tell she is exaggerating, as one time we were out and she kept complaining that her skin was "burning."  So I told her we'd better cut our shopping outing short and go home right away so she could put some ice on it.  The burning went away immediately and she was fine.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Sneezy, this sounds like a mix of narcissistic traits all working together to create this baffling behavior. And one that's familiar to me, too. There's a big piece of grandiosity, which makes her too good to use the walker and cane, and immune from the consequences of not doing so. My own uNgrandmother, in her 80s, would say disdainfully that walkers were for OLD PEOPLE.  It very well may be a pride thing that she doesn't want to be seen using a walker.

Pain is also clutch for getting attention quickly. The supply very well may more than offset the pain. I remember my uNmother having some sort of minor surgery. She refused to take the pain meds prescribed so she could drive us kids to our activities, where she regaled all and sundry with her martyrdom.

[Andeza]

Ignore legitimate issues: Check
Exaggerate minor/nonexistent attention grabbers: Check
Only follow doctor's orders when they feel like it which is next to never: Check
Expect to gripe to us ad nauseum: Check
Recover "miraculously" when it's convenient for them: Check

Oh yeah, right out of the playbook! They don't age gracefully, that's for certain.

Ah, remember WI's Didi? She had her eye on the ultimate prize, the HOLY GRAIL of martyrdom and waifs all over the world... The hospital bed in the living room. You all have reminded me of that here. If they complain enough, they think we'll jump to and try to fix all their problems. If they complain more after that, they think we'll come to that great realization of our programming. The dutiful daughters/sons primary programming being to care for the aging/raging waifs and narcs.

I'll never forget WI saying that Didi was shuffling around acting crippled and griping about how awful she felt, right up until she spotted one of her favorite stores and proceeded to beeline it down the sidewalk. I've got a heck of a mental image to accompany that! They are blind to all else beyond their wants, including being blind to their own needs.

[Sneezy]

One of these days I'm going to call my mom "Didi" by mistake and she will have no idea where that is coming from 

It's amazing how similar our elderly family members can be.  If I want to understand why my mom does something that makes no sense to me, I just have to ask myself "how does this give mom attention?" (good attention or bad attention, she just wants attention) and "how does this further mom's martyr narrative?"  It sounds simple, and you'd think I'd know this by now, but her actions can still surprise me and absolutely baffle me at times.

Mom goes to her regular doctor today.  I can't wait for the phone call where she tells me "the doctor says I shouldn't use my cane." 

[moglow]

Does it really not occur to her that using the cane or walker lets her build up strength, just gives her more support in the process?? I know. Why do I ask? We know nothing.

Mine also sees the cane/walker as for "old people." If it provides support or relief, do it! She had no staying power, wouldn't do anything long enough to give it time and see what might help. She was looking for quick fixes, no consideration that it took a long time to get to this point, any recovery or healing was going to take time. I've seen her walking, both legs are badly bowed and there's not a doubt in my mind it hurts or that she's having trouble. I STILL can't fix it by listening to her blather on and on about it. What does your doctor say??

Funny, she made comment to my brother, didn't want to go through life addicted to pain meds. Refused one in particular because it was named specifically as part of the opioid crisis. Um okay. Then don't abuse it! Take it to get you through a rough patch, don't double or triple the dose because the first didn't fix everything. There are options that she completely disregards with the apparent goal of having something to complain about.

[Cat of the Canals]

My parents are only in their early 70s and in decent physical shape. Still, the fact remains that they are getting older and they live in a house with not one, but TWO sets of stairs (not to mention stairs to get to the front door and stairs to get down to the lake). My brother and SIL have been on a mission to try to get them to start thinking about moving to a house that's more practical, but neither of my parents will discuss it beyond my mom saying, "If you find a cool house online, send me the link." As if my brother has agreed to be her personal house hunter.   She's also definitely thinking the new house would have to be an "upgrade" despite the fact that they are two people living in a 4 bed/3 bath house.

I finally had to lay it out for my brother: they are not going to even think about moving until one of them is in a position that they physically can't use the stairs. They will continue torturing themselves to serve their ongoing denial until something bad happens.

[Pepin]

This is so frustrating.   

Last time we had DPDmil over she complained again about her health.  I ask her why she doesn't take this up with her MD then?  She gives me one of those looks like, really? 

These Ns really think they know everything?  Got that degree in MD somehow without having gone through medical school.  They think they now what is best.  Don't want to manage their pain or anything else health related because IT BRINGS THEM ATTENTION.  And yet society continues to coddle them.  Aw, those poor elderly people with their bad backs, legs and throbbing pain!  Time to call the waaaaaaambulance!   

[Poison Ivy]

I don't know whether this makes it better or worse, but behavior like that described in this thread is common in lots of older people (70s, 80s, 90s), not just those with personality disorders. Aging can be a very rough process, and not everyone goes through it gracefully.

[Sneezy]

I don't know whether this makes it better or worse, but behavior like that described in this thread is common in lots of older people (70s, 80s, 90s), not just those with personality disorders. Aging can be a very rough process, and not everyone goes through it gracefully.

Poison Ivy - You are absolutely right!  I've had many relatives who ignore medical issues because "I'm not old."  I have an aunt who refuses to go to the doctor "because all they do is give you bad news."  None of these people have PDs (that I know of).  I think we all want to deny anything that seems to be a decline. 

The intersection of aging with a PD can be difficult to deal with.  And sometimes I wonder if it's my mom or me?  Meaning - I am the one who feels the guilt and the obligation.  So it's really my problem.  I need to set the boundaries, be reasonable, not feel guilty because mom is getting older.  Mom is entitled to feel how she feels.  And if she is miserable, and if aging makes her more miserable, I shouldn't feel guilty about that.  Or obligated to fix it (it can't be fixed anyway, she doesn't want a solution).  All things to work on, I suppose.

[JenniferSmith]

I don't know whether this makes it better or worse, but behavior like that described in this thread is common in lots of older people (70s, 80s, 90s), not just those with personality disorders. Aging can be a very rough process, and not everyone goes through it gracefully.

I was going to say this. In the final couple of years of my father's life (no PD), he started falling. He was told to use a walker, but 80 years of being able to walk on his own caused his brain to think that he would be able to make it to the bathroom without the walker. 

Once he ended up in assisted living, he admitted that he was supposed to push the button and wait for staff to come to escort him. Even then he tried on his own a couple of times because he didn't want to wait - resulting in falls.  Eventually his body made the choice for him and he had to use a wheelchair.  In his case, he wasn't doing any of this for attention.

I think with a PD parent, it could be challenging to disentangle "normal" human emotions and responses to health challenges and aging from their history of problematic behaviors.   

[GentleSoul]

At times pretending he wasn't in pain, other times when he wasn't, he pretended he was.

This sounds so familiar.  My mom will ignore medical advice and pretend she isn't in pain when it suits her.  Usually, this happens when it would take time or effort on her part to follow doctor's orders and she wouldn't get any credit/attention for it.  So, for example, her foot doctor has been recommending that Mom wear better shoes for several years now.  But it would take effort on Mom's part, not to mention more money, to wear the shoes the doctor recommends.  And nobody gets credit or attention for wearing sensible shoes.  So Mom ignores the foot doctor's advice and continues to suffer with aching feet.  On the other hand, Mom will make the biggest deal out of minor medical issues if it results in attention.  Her biggest thing is rashes.  She has sensitive skin, as do many people in our family.  And Mom loves to hike up her pant leg or roll up her sleeve to show everyone her awful, terrible rash (which, honestly, I have a hard time seeing most of the time - there's a lot of exaggeration around this).  A skin problem, imagined or not, will give her attention and also give her reason to bug me to take her to the store to buy lotions and creams.  I can tell she is exaggerating, as one time we were out and she kept complaining that her skin was "burning."  So I told her we'd better cut our shopping outing short and go home right away so she could put some ice on it.  The burning went away immediately and she was fine.

OH  my goodness, I read this and laughed out loud!!  The shoes and the rashes!

Uncanny!   My late uPD husband did exactly the same.  Our doctor recommended sensible shoes as husband had numb feet due to alcoholic neuropathy.  Husband refused AND made a point of buying flips flops which the doctor had specifically warned against due to their instability and being a trip hazard!   Doctor also advised against slippers as they were too unstable as well.  You know where I am going, yup husband ordered several pairs of slippers!!

Oh my , rashes!!  Don't even get me started.   Again due to the neuropathy, he had dreadful skin rashes on his legs.  Which he loved to show off, his finest times though were when he was in pressure bandages on his legs for several months which meant a poor nurse had the job of changing those bandages every week.  Meaning he had a captive audience for attention.

It all seems so crazy now, at the time it really stressed me out and exhausted me.

Each new pair of slippers or flip flops that arrived from Ebay, were opened with a flourish of his nark "cleverness".  Irritating.

[GentleSoul]

Thank you everybody in this thread.  An enormous help to me

Can I just say, above was mentioned WI's Didi - the HOLY GRAIL of a hospital bed in the home.   

Well, my uPD husband achieved that HOLY GRAIL!  He was thrilled to bits to have a hospital room set up  in our home!    Hospital bed and all the supporting kit including a commode (     ) were here. 

Also when his files were marked "HOUSE BOUND" which meant all the poor medical folk had to visit him rather than him attend appointments at the medical centre.  He was beyond delighted.

[Leonor]

Just a quick clarification:

Personality-disordered abusive people don't have "normal" emotions, the way we think of emotions ... A feeling response to the reality of the environment we're in or the experience we're having.

The abusive pd has emotions that serve an agenda with a price exacted from the people around them. It's normal to not recognize signs of aging in ourselves, or resist acknowledging that our bodies are more fragile, our eyesight weaker. It's normal to grieve our losses and rage against our inabilities and panic at the reality of our own dependence.

But pd people are so organized around their own power plays that they will mimic "normal" feeling that they observe in other people and then turn it to an advantage. "I don't want to use a walker because it makes me feel sad and afraid. I'm sure I can get to the bathroom by myself" is normal. "I don't want to use a walker because then daughter won't worry that I might fall and won't come by to check on me" is manipulative!

[Cat of the Canals]

But pd people are so organized around their own power plays that they will mimic "normal" feeling that they observe in other people and then turn it to an advantage. "I don't want to use a walker because it makes me feel sad and afraid. I'm sure I can get to the bathroom by myself" is normal. "I don't want to use a walker because then daughter won't worry that I might fall and won't come by to check on me" is manipulative!

This is a great distinction, Leonor.

EnDad has FLEAs and can be quite emotionally immature, but he's not a PD. He's had tinnitus for decades, but it's gotten so bad now that he's pretty much deaf in many situations, but he refuses to do much about it. He did eventually buy a pair of cheap hearing aids off the internet, but they don't seem to help much, and he doesn't like wearing them. He could go to a specialist and get top-of-the-line hearing aids, probably covered by insurance, but he won't do it.

There is no manipulation here. His denial comes from a sense of helplessness and an embarrassment at that helplessness. There's really no upside for him... he thinks he's maintaining some amount of pride, but even that is a failure. I mean, he's not fooling anyone when we have to repeat everything three times or tell him "Yes, someone else just said that."

[square]

In the US, hearing aids are not covered by insurance. 

[Sneezy]

But pd people are so organized around their own power plays that they will mimic "normal" feeling that they observe in other people and then turn it to an advantage. "I don't want to use a walker because it makes me feel sad and afraid. I'm sure I can get to the bathroom by myself" is normal. "I don't want to use a walker because then daughter won't worry that I might fall and won't come by to check on me" is manipulative!

This is eye-opening and so true!

I think my mom's feelings about aging are a mix of typical and disordered.  She really is sad and afraid of needing to use a walker.  But she also has some pretty grandiose ideas about her own invincibility that seem a bit more than typical.  And - here's the telling part - when something bad happens, like taking a fall - she quickly pivots and uses the situation to feed her need for attention.  So, as she was lying on the ground in pain, and I was dialing 911, she somehow managed to dig her phone out of her pocket and call a friend inside the senior apartments to make sure he knew what had happened to her.  She saw an opportunity for attention and she grabbed it.  The need to tell others of her pain and to get maximum attention/sympathy/supply was so necessary that she couldn't help but take advantage of it.

[Psuedonym]

Hey Sneezy!

Boy does this bring back memories of uPDM (Negatron)! One of her signature moves was that she would spill pills everywhere. Of course since she was a hypochondriac she was constantly taking both prescription and over the counter meds; she refused to be careful and sit down at a table to open them and they'd end up like confetti all over the place. Everybody who went in her apartment warned her that it was going to lead to an accident (which eventually it did. She was using her cane and put it down on a pill that caused it to slide that caused her to fall and break a bone which led to her going to rehab and the massive tantrum that led to me dropping the rope completely). She would tell anyone who would listen that there was nothing she could do about this and everyone should feel very sorry for her because: HER EYES!!!! Her eyes were so terrible that she couldn't possibly see...in fact she couldn't quite tell if that was you standing there her eyes were so bad.

Very sad, isn't it? Tragic. I discovered something very strange however; after moving all of her stuff multiple times, I would find vitamins and aspirin and all manner of pills all over the place, but not one single Xanax. Not one among the bazillion others. Somehow she managed to keep track of her beloved Xanax (which she was hospitalized for more than once). Even though they were tiny and white, she could see those just fine. Never misplaced a one. It's really astounding the lengths they will go to to convince everybody what a poor sad victim they are.

[Cat of the Canals]

In the US, hearing aids are not covered by insurance. 

Greatest country in the world...