Did your...

[Hepatica]

Did your uPD parent, or step-parent, or sibling ever say something specific to you that stuck in your brain, or even soul, and grew like a weed?

I woke at 5 am feeling quite sad and let myself investigate the feeling and I came out with two underlying thoughts, maladaptive ones, that go like this: I never feel safe and There is something wrong with me.

And sitting with it longer I remembered my uNPD father scrutinizing me when I was a young kid and saying: You're the chicken the other chickens will always attack. It's very vivid in my mind, especially his calculating look, the insensitivity of his eyes, like he was a scientist with a magnifying glass, a cruel, unloving parent who didn't care how those words affected me deep inside.

For years what he said has come true in many ways. I was mob bullied in my work place and now I'm estranged from my entire FOO. I've literally jumped coops because I felt so unsafe with people. I feel like that chicken the other chickens want to harm, or drive away.

How do you "remove" these belief systems? What my uNPD father said to me, I somehow believe. I'm afraid of people, because I think they're not going to like me and want to harm me.

It's like his words were prophetic, or they got a life of their own inside of me, breeding great uncertainty and fear. Is this what he wanted? Did he think he could somehow control me forever by breaking me down? Did he not think I'd jump the coop and run as soon as I could? I don't think he suspected I would do that. He has no control over me now, but the feelings inside of me, of feeling fear that I am "that chicken" the others attack remains. I want to let it go and I haven't figured out how.

[Fiasco]

Abusers and predators of all kinds are very good at sensing suitable prey. That your father assessed  you as such says way more about him than it does about you. That it kind of turned out to be accurate says everything about your childhood, and the skills you never had a chance to develop during it. It does NOT say you deserved it. I bet you'll get a lot of answers on here saying how many of us turned out to be PD magnets after having PD parents!

Maybe the fact that it's in your head right now is telling you that now is the time to address it, I think the things that won't stop bothering us are just putting themselves at the top of the priority list.  Time for some self reflective reading? Boundaries, or The Gift of Fear? Time for a self defense class? Because in a good one you'll learn to prioritize yourself (not just the physical aspects). Just some ideas, I bet you'll find something that resonates with you. Good luck!

[Hepatica]

Thank you so much Fiasco. I'm a deep feeling person, quite moved by things other people don't even notice, and I think my father noticed that.
Watching Dr. Ramani right now and revisiting the role of Truth Teller. I have been a truth teller since I was young. A definite target because of it.

You're right. Self-defence is the perfect suggestion. Mental self-defence in this case. I was jokingly thinking of that part in Harry Potter and the Defense Against the Dark Arts classes where they learn to use the Patronus Charm to call on their magical guardian.

[Leonor]

Hi Hepatica,

What's really shocking about abusive, malignant narcissists is they have absolutely no concept of you as anything more, as you say, then some kind of insect. A small, distasteful curiosity to be glanced at, summed up, and summarily dismissed.

A kind parent, of course, would have recognized your beautiful, budding self and tended to its growth like a tender gardener. Any perceived anxiety or shame would have been loved right out of you before it could take root.

And even if your good-enough parent noticed you were feeling vulnerable, or making yourself feel small, they would have scooped you up and cheered you on and applauded your bravery. If you felt empathy, they would reassure you that kindness is more valuable than power; if you spoke truth, they would respond, Preach!

Think of seeing a grown man talk to a little child that way today. Would you think, yeah, that little girl is a real loser, or would you think, What an a-hole THAT guy is. What a small-minded, puny-spirited, weak bully of an excuse for a man.

You're no weak chicken! You're no ugly duckling! You're a swan!

[Boat Babe]

All of the above Hepatica. ❤️

I would add that now this memory has arisen, probably because you're ready for it, this is the time to have HUGE self compassion for little Hepatica. Still yourself with metta meditation then go to that memory, feel around the feelings that arise and follow them back to that tiny little girl. Then give her all the comfort that she needs. Soothe her and tell her how beautiful she is, what a strong woman she will become. Tell her that it's not her fault. But most of all tell her that she's safe now.

[Call Me Cordelia]

Hepatica, I had a similar experience from my own father. I was a precocious kid, early reader, and at six my father told me I was 1) smarter than every other kid and 2) I would be hated for it my entire life. I would never have friends. So my underlying MO became that I had to constantly prove I was the best at everything. I had no friends, and would never have any real friends, but at least I could be the best. Of course I couldn't measure up against the entire world all the time. So I would feel like an utter failure when I lost a game at field day. My belief about myself became that I was only worthwhile as long as I was best at absolutely everything. Like you I learned to never relax, never to trust anyone, because I'd already accepted that I was unlikeable and everyone was merely competition. Academics, looks, popularity, you name it. If someone was better than me at anything at all, they became an enemy in my mind. If I judged myself superior, I would think they weren't worth my time. This was me at six years old.

All this to say that the messages we receive from our parents in those early years absolutely do hold a lot of power over our self-concept for our whole lives until we are able to look at them as an adult self, looking back at that child and helping them unravel the lies and replacing it with truth. It is not easy and it is a process. For myself I do very easily get plunged back into insecurity when I see someone else's success or talent. If I'm just not having a great day, it can be a lot of effort to walk myself back to a rational place where I can be genuinely happy for other people!

What your father told you is certainly a lie. It's true in toxic places like your FOO and I presume your former job. But the world is full of good people who are not like your father, who are not looking for someone to attack at all.

[Maxtrem]

It's like his words were prophetic, or they got a life of their own inside of me, breeding great uncertainty and fear. Is this what he wanted? Did he think he could somehow control me forever by breaking me down? Did he not think I'd jump the coop and run as soon as I could? I don't think he suspected I would do that. He has no control over me now, but the feelings inside of me, of feeling fear that I am "that chicken" the others attack remains. I want to let it go and I haven't figured out how.

Perhaps it could be the concept of self-fulfilling prophecy. According to Robert King Merton, the concept of "self-fulfilling prophecy" sheds useful light on the relationship between self-confidence and the confidence of others, endured stereotypes and internalized assignments, strength of conviction and the ability to "create" reality.

I have studied this phenomenon in economics, but this concept also applies to many sciences, including psychology.

This is just a hint, I am not an expert in this field, but I hope it can help you

[Hepatica]

Maxtrem, the prophetic element of what he did is/was so painful. When we are children, we are so open, so unguarded and what our parents tell us are everything. I had a long talk with my husband, sharing your comments with him, and both of us recognize now, that my father is a man, without conscience.

I thank each of you in your responses. They are beautiful antidotes, helping me set up the healing process. Yes to self-compassion, Boat Babe. Yes, Maxtrem, I think there is a religious teaching around what we speak "over our children" how important it is to treat them with care. What we say over them, is planted, so to speak. It grows.

Call Me Cordelia, I'm sorry you had a father who said those words to you, as mine did. They were so wrong. You can be successful and have friends. You can fail and have friends.  They think they're so smart, don't they? But they were not smart, or kind, or truly fatherly at all. Shame on them.

Leonor, the idea that the see us as, animals, insects, things to be toyed with is horrifying. That they are so removed from love, and we end up having to spend our formative years with them! Ugh.  I've read your kind words over and over again because they really help soothe this part of me that is aghast right now, and I think they are key to my healing. I must step in and do what I didn't receive and sad as that is, at least I am aware of it and can try to do it. Thank you

[Hazy111]

I dated a woman and she recalled something her father said when she was a young child . " You know what Karen i dont like you much" . She had never forgotten it. 

[moglow]

I think there is a religious teaching around what we speak "over our children" how important it is to treat them with care. What we say over them, is planted, so to speak. It grows.

That's so true - and it's painful knowing we didn't receive and don't recognize that care in our parents.

Mine, as mentioned before, is a bully. Always has been. One of the things that haunts me still is her oft-repeated snarl when things didn't go as planned: "you're useless as tits on a boar hog!" It didn't affect the way I saw myself but sure as hell did the way I saw and responded to her. And she wondered why we weren't "friends" why we had such limited relationship for so many years.

[Blueberry Pancakes]

I probably cannot offer much that has not already been posted in reply, but I have experienced similar. The way our parents speak, their choice of words, the emotional inflection, I believe it all has a way of sinking in over the years. By the time we are old enough to start questioning it, perhaps in our teens, I feel like it has already somehow been etched in our psyche.   

Thinking that we are somehow innately flawed, not good enough, bound to fail, etc. (as I did) I think can be the ripple effect. It does not need to last though. It was never who you are and was never reality. You do not need to own or carry any of that. That "stuff" was all theirs. With awareness and being mindful of that inner critic and self-talk, you get to rewrite the script. 

[JollyJazz]

Hi Hepatica,

I'm so sorry that you had that painful experience.

Many of us here have been conditioned into the scapegoat, people pleasing and care giving role. They are often quite agressive about trying to force us back into the role when we try to escape.

But here's the thing. There's a great line in a wonderful book 'stop caregiving the borderline or narcissist' where it describes how it's actually the conscientious ones, the ones with a healthy degree of empathy who get picked for this role. And the wonderful thing is, we are the ones with the skill to escape (like you did) and to grow and heal.

So anyway, what I'm saying here is, I hear you, I was in the scapegoat role, I've been bullied at work too.

But there is a way out and you're finding it!

Some books that helped me - the stop caregiving book (as above), the disease to please, and a great book called 'the dark side of the light chasers' - this is really important because when we are forced not to assert ourself, squash down our healthy self defense mechanisms etc.  that makes us vulnerable, and bullies and abusers can smell that. So that book is good for reclaiming the buried / hidden and healthy self defense parts.

Anyway, just sending you a big warm hug, know that you aren't alone. You're escaping healing and you'll get through this!

[Leonor]

Omg, what horrid people. It's like our parents stepped out of a Grimms fairy tale.

Imagine yourself at six years old, how lively and spirited and loving you were, and how big and powerful daddy seemed, and then imagine kicking him in the shins.

[Hepatica]

Hazy111 - I hope Karen found a way to like herself and fling that back in the insensitive father's face.

JollyJazz - Thanks for the suggestion of books. Love the title The Dark Side of the Light Chasers. I haven't yet disentangled myself from my FOO. I have done it physically so to speak, but what I need to work on now, is removing the habitual abuse I learned over the years from my own mind, and be my own unconditional best friend. It takes SO MUCH WORK! 

Blueberry Pancakes - True. I am sure all of us here have memorized even the tiniest of micro-expressions from the toxic members of our families. Our nervous systems are wired to the hilt by the time we get away from them to heal. 

Leonor, I am imagining kicking him hard in the shins and running as fast as I can. It's so delicious!!

[j.banquo]

I'm really sorry you're experiencing this, and yes, I have so many things stuck in my head from not just both of my parents and my sister but maybe ten "friends" and exes.

It took a long time, but I've actually gotten rid of some of them, some of them I've gotten rid of most of the time, some I'm able to catch and explore, I'm sure there are plenty I haven't noticed, and there are sometimes new ones too. The ones I can catch and explore, I react to them emotionally, but I am aware of what's happening.

One helpful thing I've done (which is almost impossible for most people because of jobs and kids) is to stop everything any time I feel stress at all, then sit and explore the feeling and let it just be, and when I do that, I get to the other side of it and it feels amazing. It can take multiple days though, of course, and when I'm busy and can't shift my schedule... maybe some things get done, but the stress feeling grows and takes its toll, honestly.

It isn't normal stress, I can't get rid of it with normal techniques - even meditation actually makes it worse. That was important to realize; I thought I was totally broken because meditating sometimes made me feel worse. It's because it's the effect of abuse or past abuse. It isn't like working too many hours or something. That's why facing down the feeling until it is done being felt works.

You can absolutely get rid of these things, I've done it. A lot of them went all at once, because what it took for those was to develop an accurate and healthy self-image.

[Hilltop]

I was a truth teller as a kid and I was the scapegoat because of it.  I learned later in life that the truth teller is usually the one targeted.  My dad had a string of insults he used over and over with me.  He would say "You are a ***, ***, *** little bitch".  I was told it over and over as a child so much so that I still remember the exact language as an adult, I was told I was difficult, I don't remember him ever saying I love you.  In fact I struggle to remember anything positive they threw my way.  As a result I have so much anger inside, pent up hurt and frustration I am working through.  The inner child meditations, work really well for me.

As a result I think I have grown up not trusting people, I find myself shielding myself and protecting myself from people even when I have just met them.  The thing is as a kid we grow up hearing these messages and I for one blamed myself, even though part of me knew my dad was in the wrong and he was not being fair, some part of me inside heard the message and for me the weed of self loathing grew and grew, I didn't even notice it until later in life.

I don't know why they do it but hurt people hurt.  People with PD's hurt others.  Dysfunctional families hurt each other.  In some ways I feel like I was similar to you, a deeper thinker, sensitive and for some reason these traits irritated my parents.  I think it was because they can't handle emotion and I was emotional.  My sister became a robot just like them, never overly happy, never sad.  I was the one in the family who showed all my emotions and I was ridiculed and mocked for it, I was punished for it and I believe the reason for this is my parents couldn't handle or deal with their own emotions so they were never going to be able to handle mine.

I think my dad also had a touch of anxiety in his mid life possibly he got burnt out from work and he took his frustrations out on me.  I think my mother has some sort of PD or narcissistic traits. Recognising this, recognising what your father was to me doesn't really matter, it is hard to be a kid and be subjected to this.

I love your idea of Harry Potter and the defence against the dark arts classes of a Patronus Charm.  That is exactly what we need.  Something to conjure up and wrap around us like a warm blanket when we need it. Something strong and protective and comes from within.  Yep that is exactly what I need.

[Hepatica]

Dear Hilltop,

My heart aches for you (and me) and all of us who grew up in the way you describe. I'm so so sorry your father directed such atrocious anger onto you, and not just a blip either, over and over again.

It feels to me like a "download" as if they say and yell these things at us, and we're too young to have the protective shield, or we don't have another adult to tell us they are wrong, and the tone and the words go straight into our hearts and minds - our souls really - and we spend our time growing up internalizing it as our own voice, and doing all kinds of measures of self-harm from mean inner voices, to addiction, to marrying someone who treats us terribly.

I am happy to read that your inner child meditations are helping. I have this 'thing' that I do, where I imagine myself on a timeline, and the elderly part of me, speaks kindly to me from the future and roots for me like a kind, loving grandparent, knowing that the more healing I do now, the more my elderly years will be even potentially joyous. I have really worked on transforming my inner voice to coach, or a good mother/grandmother voice, than the old, unconscious voice of my abusive parent/s. It seems to me that when we wake up to what kind of inner voice we have, and find out that it is the replaying of an abusive person's, we can work on transforming it. Not a quick fix, but certainly a healthy practice.

I too have trust issues, and why wouldn't we? The first people we spend the most time with have assaulted us with their narrow, cruel perception and then we're thrown out into the world thinking that's what we are, so why would anyone else like us? It's terribly sad. But I believe it is healable.

I was just reading about the 20th anniversary of Harry Potter first movie is being re-released. It's got 5 stars in the Guardian and I'm going to definitely be looking into it. There is so much wisdom in the Harry Potter series on fighting that dark energy, and I have been working really hard on pulling up those happy, good memories to focus on them as a shield against the dark energy that's hitting us all right now. It seems perhaps, silly to use a childhood book to guide me with this, but it really, really helps, partly because I remember buying that first Harry Potter book, wondering what was the big deal, taking awhile to get into it, but then being so excited whenever the next book was coming - and these are some of the happiest memories of my life. JK Rowling knows exactly what all of us are going through here, on these forums. Maybe it was unconscious on her part, but I believe she wrote them for herself and to help the next generations.

Here's a bit of beautiful, healing magic being sent out to all of you reading this, especially if you're having a difficult day. I send you the magic of self-love and compassion and all of its healing attributes. Do something happy today, whatever that looks like and tell me what it is if you do it, to give us all some ideas.

[Hilltop]

Hey Hepatica I hope you are feeling better.  Its tough though isn't it.  I like your meditation, I will try it.  I found a guided meditation online where you picture yourself as a child when a hurtful event was happening or when your father was telling you these horrible things and you talk to your child self as your adult self.  You tell yourself that it isn't true, or whatever it is you need to hear. In essence you be the loving parent to yourself as a child.  I found it really helpful.

In some ways we spend so much time trying to understand them, what they are doing, why they are doing it, how to fix it or stop it and it takes so long to step back and actually look at ourselves. To realise we need healing.  I so relate to what you wrote about feeling like no one else would like me, I have often thought to myself that if my own family don't like me, why would anyone else.  This level of self loathing has been the hardest for me, I hide myself away a little because of it.  It is so cruel to ourselves, we would never be that harsh with anyone else but we are with ourselves.  I agree it can be healed though.

My heart breaks a little to see you write that you wake up feeling like something is wrong with you.  That is that message you downloaded and it is so cruel.  To walk through life constantly feeling wrong, its such a cruel thing to do to a child.  The worst part is we don't even realise this message has been downloaded until our adult years and it is hard to unlearn it, although I believe like you that we can do it.  We can heal. It just takes time.  This is my goal in life to get to my elderly years with this behind me, to have accepted myself.

I love Harry Potter and wish it continued.  Its been ages since I've been that excited by a book or movie.  Today I am going for a bush walk, I love walking in nature, so I hope everyone else has something nice planned as well.  I hope you are feeling a bit better.

[moglow]

I was just reading about the 20th anniversary of Harry Potter first movie is being re-released. It's got 5 stars in the Guardian and I'm going to definitely be looking into it. There is so much wisdom in the Harry Potter series on fighting that dark energy, and I have been working really hard on pulling up those happy, good memories to focus on them as a shield against the dark energy that's hitting us all right now. It seems perhaps, silly to use a childhood book to guide me with this, but it really, really helps, partly because I remember buying that first Harry Potter book, wondering what was the big deal, taking awhile to get into it, but then being so excited whenever the next book was coming - and these are some of the happiest memories of my life. JK Rowling knows exactly what all of us are going through here, on these forums. Maybe it was unconscious on her part, but I believe she wrote them for herself and to help the next generations.

Here's a bit of beautiful, healing magic being sent out to all of you reading this, especially if you're having a difficult day. I send you the magic of self-love and compassion and all of its healing attributes. Do something happy today, whatever that looks like and tell me what it is if you do it, to give us all some ideas.

Side discussion, and not - huge HP fan here! I kept it very quiet and to myself for a long time but am finding plenty other potterheads of all ages as time passes. The draw for me has been much of what you mention: fighting the dark energies you can't see, plus pulling into and building stronger friendships, looking for encouragement for myself and others. The back stories with HP series are so much about overcoming obstacles, feeling like they don't fit in, being bullied and/or isolated until they are accepted to Hogwarts then finding the family they never knew they had.

For a while now when my emotional state dips, I've been binge watching the movies. Even with all the darkness in later sections, there's laughter and compassion and light. There's hope and promise and a push to keep moving forward. And always those friends who reach out no matter what. We need more of that.


Feeling the magic today, thank you.

[Hazy111]

 Talking of science ( not fiction) ...they have discovered, but cant see both "dark matter" and "dark energy" that  affects the Universe on a massive scale ... I think of it like "narcissistic supply" its always there shaping our existence and interactions totally beyond our control.

I dont agree that "J K Rowling knows exactly what we are all going through"....  i think they call that "projection", shes  very good at writing fantasy books though.