Where was she??

[moglow]

In conversations with two of my brothers recently, the question has come up about our memories of mommie dearest. She was strictly stay at home mother until I was around 10years old. Other than the violence [both verbal and physical] we don't remember her. None of us do. My brothers remember trying to avoid her entirely by being off on bicycles or playing in the woods for hours at the time.  There's no warm and cuddly breakfast or bedtimes, no family games or occasions, no trips, no happy laughing anything for any of us. I remember her meltdowns but not at what triggered them or why we were being punished. the whole family talked about how well behaved we were from a very young age, that we didn't dare misbehave.

As older brother pointed out this morning, she was around 27 when the youngest was born, and didn't start working outside the home for around 8-10 more years. But no memories of her, when we remember each other and things we did together??

So where was she - did we spend that much time at home alone?? She may have gone into some major postpartum depression and never really overcame it. It looks like she checked out of our lives long before we were aware of it.

[Andeza]

I remember hours upon hours spent outside in the yard, playing in the field, sitting in a tree, hiding in my room reading a book, doing high school by video by myself... She was in the house watching TV. Was yours, Moglow?

[moglow]

No idea. I got nothin', not even a glimmer. I couldn't even tell you where the television was in those houses. I've got blank spells that kinda scare me, not sure what they were.

Interesting that you mention reading though, I read incessantly even as a kid. It was always my escape, still is. I can remember her confiscating my books later, saying they weren't appropriate. She didn't like me closed away in my room, seemed to like having me out where I was a better target. Damned if I did damned if I didn't. 🤷🏻

[Andeza]

Yeah, mine liked the "inappropriate" excuse as well, but never tried to confiscate a book from me. I think she sensed that was my hill to die on and I would have bugged the crap out of her to get it back. She hated it when I spent hours in my room as well. But, that was because she was bored and had no idea how to sit quietly on her own. She wanted attention from me, and she wanted someone to talk AT. Not to. I couldn't sit in the living room to read because the TV was on and she wouldn't stop yapping. And yet, I had to, because if I sat in my room I was abandoning her and she was "lonely."

I think our M's must be related. Maybe yours is mine's aunt or something.

[mary_poppins]

Mine wasn't there either. She was completely checked out. UNLESS, her most beloved no. 1 narcissistic supply, her husband (who mattered more than her kids) did something interesting. Then she was all ears.

It's funny but there aren't many memories with her or father. I kind of remember moments when I and my brothers were allowed in their bedroom/living room because that's where the TV was (we didn't have TV in our rooms and weren't allowed to watch TV whenever we wanted). So we'd all watch tv shows like Dallas, Dynasty, or whatever and eat snacks. Those are the only positive memories I have of them. But it's not like we were talking to each other, we were just allowed to watch movies and that was great for us, kids. Plus, they didn't have to engage with us so that was their advantage.

Btw, my NPD mom worked and used her work to get away from us. I simply do not recall any moment when she was home growing up and she did something nice for us, like taking us to a cafe or a restaurant or just for a walk. Last year was the first time I took a walk with my mother ever. It was a weird and bumpy process and was done mostly for her enjoyment. I am now declining her invitations of going out. I know she only wants me to go out with her because she's terrified of people (she has agoraphobia, social anxiety and so on) and needs a therapy buddy wherever she goes.

I feel for her, but don't use your adult child to get your needs met. That's just vile!

[mary_poppins]

BTW, I also used books to escape. I think I preferred lifestyle and fashion magazines to books because I would read in there all kinds of interesting stories of people who had a life and were happy. Writing journals and stories was another way for me to escape. So, in a way, I'm glad I didn't have full access to a TV as a child.

[Boat Babe]

That's a big and scary realization there Mo. It's going to take a while to process. I'm sad to hear about you and your brothers being "good" all those years ago. Little children terrified of their mother. It's just horrible. Huge hugs.

On the subject of reading, that was my mother too. Reading was, still is, my passion and it was my major refuge as a child. I used to go to the library all the time. I loved the various libraries in all of my childhood and still love them now. Anyway, I always had a book on the go at home and my mother didn't get it and was obviously upset by it. I remember her saying once, with reproach and anger "You're always reading.".  Like it was a bad thing.

Nothing stopped me reading, even her. I knew about libraries 😊. I passed on my love of reading to my son. When he was very ill as wee one, we spent the best part of two years in my bed with me reading him story after story. He just passed his Master's in Creative Writing so you can imagine my joy!

Sending hugs to the Resistance Readers out there.

[Boat Babe]

Mine wasn't there either. She was completely checked out. UNLESS, her most beloved no. 1 narcissistic supply, her husband (who mattered more than her kids) did something interesting. Then she was all ears.

It's funny but there aren't many memories with her or father. I kind of remember moments when I and my brothers were allowed in their bedroom/living room because that's where the TV was (we didn't have TV in our rooms and weren't allowed to watch TV whenever we wanted). So we'd all watch tv shows like Dallas, Dynasty, or whatever and eat snacks. Those are the only positive memories I have of them. But it's not like we were talking to each other, we were just allowed to watch movies and that was great for us, kids. Plus, they didn't have to engage with us so that was their advantage.

Btw, my NPD mom worked and used her work to get away from us. I simply do not recall any moment when she was home growing up and she did something nice for us, like taking us to a cafe or a restaurant or just for a walk. Last year was the first time I took a walk with my mother ever. It was a weird and bumpy process and was done mostly for her enjoyment. I am now declining her invitations of going out. I know she only wants me to go out with her because she's terrified of people (she has agoraphobia, social anxiety and so on) and needs a therapy buddy wherever she goes.

I feel for her, but don't use your adult child to get your needs met. That's just vile!

And using your young child to get your needs met is even viler

[moglow]

...I couldn't sit in the living room to read because the TV was on and she wouldn't stop yapping. And yet, I had to, because if I sat in my room I was abandoning her and she was "lonely."

Later years, teenage I guess, we had this. We watched the television shows parents wanted to watch, all crowded onto the couch and them in their chairs. Not allowed to talk but reading wasn't an option either. I remember sitting closest to tv because my vision was bad, couldn't focus from a distance (and no, nobody did anything about that. It was just another thing to mock me about, squinting my eyes like it was some kind of game). When stepfather went to bed everybody went to bed, no matter if you had homework or needed to study "you should have done that earlier." 


We really were resented, pushed aside and ignored from so far back. I never really thought about it until now.

[Hazy111]

moglow, those scary blank spells were probably disassociation, a self defense mechanism the traumatised mind does to protect from the abuse ,, it checks out to save itself...very common in trauma patients...my T explained it to me .. why i couldnt remember great chunks just snippets....The irony is your mom was probably doing the same , when she should have caring for her kids...the "freeze" defense,, opting out,, like on drugs alcohol,,,it numbs the pain

Traumatised kids often talk about losing themselves in books in childhood as protection etc,, the modern traumatised kid does it a lot with the internet games tv etc.

[Psuedonym]

Totally agree with Hazy here. Same thing, even though I have memories of other people and events.

[moglow]

The irony is your mom was probably doing the same , when she should have caring for her kids...the "freeze" defense,, opting out,, like on drugs alcohol,,,it numbs the pain

Possibly - and not. I do agree that she may have had some dissociation too, since she claims to not understand why we avoided or pulled away from her. Even now, she doesn't understand why there's no relationship, is constantly blaming that on someone else as if relationships with her own children aren't her responsibility. Mother is/was a master of flipping it on and off depending on her audience. I've seen her full on raging, contorted face and all, when the phone rings. The good fairy could carry on a conversation then hang up and pick up the rage right where she left off. For years I honestly thought she had multiple personalities, the differences were so marked.

It's somewhat reassuring finally talking about it even occasionally with my brothers. I realize the nightmare wasn't just mine and I didn't imagine it, but at the same time I'm not as alone in it as I thought I was. K's questions and the conversation kind of threw me off my usual kilter yesterday and I know I'll settle back down - so much stuff we all packed away, pushed down where we don't have to look at it. If she's not miserable, she should be. The damage she did haunts us all.

[Penny Lane]

I was gonna say the same. I talked to DSS awhile ago and he didn't remember some things that happened not that long before that. Things like, mom wasn't allowed to come to our house for years. Etc. He kept asking questions about it and I said, you know what, if your mind doesn't want to remember it maybe there's a reason? Maybe it's for the best that you don't know some of this.

I would say the same to you. Maybe she was there and it was terrible. Maybe it's for the best that you don't remember this stuff, it's your mind protecting you.

And PS ... I don't know her, but I think she is probably miserable. More miserable even than she made you. I know that as much as I don't like to be the target of a PD, I would rather be me than her.

[moglow]

Penny, if md is miserable she more than earned it. Her whole adult life has been miserable and the result of her repeated poor choices, particularly regarding our family. So much wasted time with her performances. Please don't think I wish her ill, she's brought more than enough of that on herself. I've just burned through any sympathy I had for her.

It honestly frightens me - what I do remember is bad, really bad. I dont want to know the rest.

[JustKathy]

Now that you bring this up, I also realize that I have no memories of doing "normal" things with my mother. She was always watching me so she could control what I was doing, but she never participated in any activities with me. I have no memory of her ever playing with me, reading to me, taking me on shopping trips, or any of the other things a mother would do with her daughter.

Like you, I was also a user. I remember spending hours a day sitting in the yard reading when I was very young. When I was in high school and her narc abuse was at its worse, one of the few places I was allowed to go on my own was the public library. All of my time at home was spent reading. It was my escape.

[Penny Lane]

Penny, if md is miserable she more than earned it. Her whole adult life has been miserable and the result of her repeated poor choices, particularly regarding our family. So much wasted time with her performances. Please don't think I wish her ill, she's brought more than enough of that on herself. I've just burned through any sympathy I had for her.

It honestly frightens me - what I do remember is bad, really bad. I dont want to know the rest.

Don't get me wrong, I am not suggesting you should have sympathy for her! I thought it might be a somewhat comforting notion. If not, disregard!

The thing with my stepkids is that they remember the most dramatic stuff. It's like, the ongoing low level bad behavior. Or the tension between her and DH.

So I'm not saying there is some big thing your mind is hiding from you.

More like, you know she was neglectful, and she was mean. You don't need to remember every instance of it. You know?

[moglow]

Penny, no harm done, you're helping me think it through! Just some of my own bitterness seeping out here as I think back.

What I'm seeing is the things I never saw - there aren't those mother/daughter moments, hugs and love and warmth, even general concern about school or friends or boys. None. Like my brother said not long ago, there was no love.

She was lost long before we ever came along, is my best guess.

[Hazy111]

She was lost long before we ever came along, is my best guess.  Yep . By the age of 6 most probably.

moglow.. id have a wild stab that her own "mother" was no mother either. It doesnt excuse her behavior but explains it. 

PD doesnt  arrive out of the blue, its there at an early age ......  Its interesting my own mother never talked about her mother or her father for that matter. I didnt know them, but my elder sis said something about her being "a tough woman" .

[frogjumpsout]

Glad to meet other "resistance readers" here...I remember my elementary school social worker said I used books to hide from people. That was definitely true. (She took it in a weird direction, though, calling me a commitment-o-phobe running from "real relationships" with boys . . . at age 11. Ah well.)

[frogjumpsout]

I got off track, sorry! Mo, that sounds really frightening. I'm glad at least your brothers confirm the memories you have -- and maybe more importantly, the feelings surrounding the memories.