My bingo card was altered, and filled anyway

[moglow]

A recent thread by Cat of the Canals "PD Phone Call Bingo" [https://www.outofthefog.net/forum/index.php?topic=89976.0] had us all talking about the predictable sequence of our phone calls with our parents.

Yesterday I called mommie dearest to wish her happy new year. Six months silence and md's still absolutely predictable with a slight twist. She didn't question or comment on anything personal regarding me or my life, didn't even ask where or how I celebrated the holidays. No interest whatsoever, as she'd actually commented in the past when she said she didn't want to hear my thoughts or feelings or any of that crap. I could have had that entire conversation with a stranger in the grocery store just to pass the time.

Late last night I remembered the bingo cards and ran through it in my mind. My card:

Comment how long (and would provide the date!) since my last call - check
Her excruciating knee pain - check
She's not getting around wellI have no idea what she's dealing with (didn't elaborate when asked for more information) - check
You/I dont care about anyone but your/myself - No mention
She heard from (names brother, last contact from them) - check
She hasn't heard from (names brother) in so long - check
Why it's somehow my fault whoever hasn't contacted her - No mention
What is that dog barking at now - check
There's a car turning around in her driveway - mentioned busy traffic noise instead
She needs to let dog out - check

*Added - Comments about covid and the pandemic
*Added - My brother had brought her some fruit, repeated mentions
*Added - Repeated random references to someone named Ann, never heard of her before

Attempts to deflect to actual conversation were ignored. She'd cycle through her topics and the call was over, would cut me off mid sentence when her limit was reached.

What I left off the card were the frequent and repeated talking over me as if nothing was being said, cutting me off midsentence with random question or observation that had nothing to do with the conversation at hand and confirmed she wasn't listening. Checked this one too.

***
No contact has served a very real purpose for me - it removed me from the emotions and drama of it all and gave me the space I needed to heal from the hurt. It helped me face the realities and the disappointment that comes from them - I/we don't exist for mother other than in however we can serve her. It's not a joyful thought at all, but once again I'm reminded that it's truly not personal with mother. She just doesn't have it in her on any level. She never has.

I'm sure in mother's mind there's a lot of rug sweeping going on, everything is "back to normal" and all is well or some such. She has no doubt (again, temporarily) put the past in the past and pretending all is bright and shiny. I also know that when she gets comfortable with someone and makes her assumptions, the claws come out. The difference is, now I'd have no hesitation to speak up, back off, call it for the ridiculousness it is. I don't know that I'll initiate or welcome any further contact at all. If she stays silent waiting for me to reach out, I'm okay with it and she may be very disappointed.

I just can't stomach any more fake bs. It's telling that I have not one twinge with my stomach, no headache, blood pressure isn't up. I'm tired but that's more to do with the intermittent fireworks in the neighborhood until they all ran out! It's a brand new day, boys and girls, one I never thought I'd see.

[SunnyMeadow]

It's good you were able to talk to her (be talked at!) and not have any anxiety afterwards. What a relief and a good change moglow.

I had a similar experience on the phone with my uNPD mother. She touched on most of the bingo card topics and completely did what your mother did...talked over me and interrupted me mid-sentence. It's a shocking thing to realize they have so little regard for the other person. I ended the call and went on with my day, got together with friends for dinner and forgot all about her! 

We had non-stop fireworks here too. These homeowners must spend a boatload of money on the fireworks that go on for hours! 

[chowder]

Talking over and interrupting mid-sentence ... check.  Just had that with SIL.  It was astounding to step back and watch how it's all about her.  I was trying to have a conversation about some other family members we had just seen....relating a story about some adorable twins, etc.  I got very few words out when she interrupted with her own story about something else, and went on and on.  This happened again and again, no matter what the topic was.   Sometimes I would stop talking in the middle of a word, and she never returned to ask what the rest of the thought was.  The word "I" came out of her mouth multiple times. 

These experiences are just so unfulfilling.  Thankfully, due to distance, I don't have to endure them as much as before.

[moglow]

The complete lack of interest is mind blowing, isn't it. I can only imagine that her/their inner dialogue is more than enough for them. I can understand the possibility of being overwhelmed and lost in the surprise of a sudden call, not knowing what to say or how best to respond.

But to ask nothing, show no interest in drawing someone out, complete disregard that this person called and may have had something to say. Talking over someone who called you, with banalities after having been so truly ugly to them for many years.

Complete and utter disregard for others is mind boggling to me, and for that at least I'm grateful. I've not lost my humanity.

[chowder]

Yes, it never occurs to them, what is the reason for the call, was something on your mind, not even a basic how are you doing ...

We're grateful we can recognize this behavior and not use it ourselves in personal interactions.  When encountering someone who is an excellent listener, it is such a gift ... and of course I'm always working on that skill as well!

[Cat of the Canals]

My husband talked to PDmil on the phone today. 90% of the call is him saying, "Yeah....... uh huh......." as she goes on and on and on. I was wondering if she's ever encountered someone that behaves the way she does. The interrupting, the gossip, the absolute domination of the conversation. Would she recognize it as rude? My husband said he wasn't sure she'd recognize the behavior as rude per se, but he was certain about one thing: she would never have a relationship with a person like that, as she is only interested in people who will sit quietly while she holds court.

[moglow]

Cat, I wonder if she'd get as nasty as mother if your husband insisted "I wish you'd let me finish what I was saying..." Or even just point out that she was interrupting him. Some time back I'd just stop talking altogether then she'd complain I was saying nothing. I pointed out what was happening and she started just mocking me more. I started ending calls sooner rather than listen to that whole recitation of spite and negativity.

Interesting thing is, mother had snarled years ago that I was only interested in myself, didn't care about others (her specifically) - while *she* dominated conversations and talked over people?? My brother said that she's taken to asking him to bless meals before they eat, then talks/prays the whole time he is.


There's a complete disconnect from other people and their part in conversations, discussions, life really. This isn't entirely new but it's definitely getting worse.

[Cat of the Canals]

Cat, I wonder if she'd get as nasty as mother if your husband insisted "I wish you'd let me finish what I was saying..." Or even just point out that she was interrupting him. Some time back I'd just stop talking altogether then she'd complain I was saying nothing.

She tends toward waif more than witch, unless she's already spoiling for a fight, so she'd probably just act like a scolded puppy.

There have been times where he doesn't utter a word for a solid 2-3 minutes. She doesn't notice or care or complain. She might even prefer it. Even before we were Out of the FOG, we used to joke that if she had dinner with some very realistic cardboard cutouts of us, she wouldn't actually know the difference.

[moglow]

A while back brother #2 told mother she ought to call #3 - her response was Why? She doesn't have a problem with him! The sheer ridiculousness of her response escaped her - so you only call when you have a problem with someone? But she gets mad with *me* because they don't call her, it must be something I said that turned them against her. Oh the power!

And honestly, when she does call it's invariably about a problem she has with someone or something else, not the person she talking to - more gossip and backstabbing. Mother's "problems with people" are typically something from the far distant past, something taken out of context and blown all out of proportion. The most innocent of comments or questions by random people send her mind spinning into full blown anger that she must take out on someone.

A cousin told me recently, mother is "that way" because she misses me so much and doesn't know what to do about it. What does she miss, exactly? Cousin couldn't say. Cousin knows her, knows what has happened and how mother has treated everyone her whole life. She witnessed several incidents, I'm sure many others I know nothing about. This isn't a new thing - my response to it is new!

It's kind of interesting [and not] after having been away from her. The blinders are off and I pray I can keep them off finally. I want to kick myself for having put up with her nastiness all those years, for having taken it all in and believed what she said to and about me. Then I remember I've kicked myself for decades, tried to measure up and be what she supposedly needed.

Truth is, mother needed me to be invisible so she could somehow shine. The bully within her needed a punching bag. Her deep insecurities needed someone else to blame rather than stepping up into her own life, accepting responsibility for herself and turning things around. That would require effort. Apologies. Setting her pride aside and admitting others just might know something, even her own children.

She is lazy. Even and most importantly in relationships with her own family, she's just lazy and doesn't care enough to step up. 

[Cat of the Canals]

And honestly, when she does call it's invariably about a problem she has with someone or something else, not the person she talking to - more gossip and backstabbing. Mother's "problems with people" are typically something from the far distant past, something taken out of context and blown all out of proportion. The most innocent of comments or questions by random people send her mind spinning into full blown anger that she must take out on someone.

My MIL absolutely despises her in-laws, especially her husband's brother. He's very wealthy, which drives her up the wall with jealousy. Her most recent gripe was that the brother's wife was "grilling" MIL about where she got her outfit. And by grilling, she had the audacity to ask, "Where did you get your dress?" 

MIL told her she got it at [store] during a going-out-of-business sale. I guess MIL was embarrassed to have gotten the dress on sale (no one cares!) when she believes her SIL must only buy expensive things, since she is wealthy. SIL isn't the bragging type, so this is 100% an assumption on MIL's part. (A dumb one at that.)

A cousin told me recently, mother is "that way" because she misses me so much and doesn't know what to do about it. What does she miss, exactly? Cousin couldn't say. Cousin knows her, knows what has happened and how mother has treated everyone her whole life. She witnessed several incidents, I'm sure many others I know nothing about. This isn't a new thing - my response to it is new!

Ugh, how do people say this and not hear how insane it sounds? "I miss you so much, that's why I treat you horribly!" Even if it was true, is it supposed to make the abusive behavior less painful? More acceptable? Absolute nonsense.

[Hilltop]

Yep by the sounds of it she needed a punching bag, someone to soak up all that negativity and when it was too much she could lash out,  Bravo that you see that now.

Your cousin doesn't really know what they are talking about, your mother misses you so much, I love your response of misses what,  .
If someone misses you, they reach out and make a genuine effort to fix things or talk honestly.  Pretending nothing is wrong and waiting for everything to blow over so the behaviour can continue is not missing you, it's missing the punching bag.

Congrats on stepping back and taking care of yourself.  It's interesting that you mention the lack of effort, the laziness.  I sometimes wonder if it ever occurs to them that they needed to do healing work, or do they really think its normal behaviour?  This one I still can't wrap my head around.

[moglow]

Hilltop, it's who *she* is so therefore "normal." Anything "other" is wrong, abnormal and weird to hear her tell it. The slightest different of opinion even on mundane topics and mother would lose it. So many times I'd be flabbergasted at things she'd explode over, "wait a second, you're angry about what?? You're taking up this huge battle flag because why?!" Worse, she'd demand that everyone else join with these imaginary battles simply because she said so - if you didn't you then became a target. Logic and common sense went right out the window!

[bee well]

That's awful. The disregard and subsequent enabling, and the "no logic and common sense" is maddening. I am really sorry you got these reminders but glad that you are keeping the blinders off...!

Kudos to you for the work you have done, and the recovery you have. This is where I hope to be one day. You wrote: 

"I just can't stomach any more fake bs. It's telling that I have not one twinge with my stomach, no headache, blood pressure isn't up. I'm tired but that's more to do with the intermittent fireworks in the neighborhood until they all ran out! It's a brand new day, boys and girls, one I never thought I'd see." 

Keep on keepin' on, Moglow!

[moglow]

Bee well, it's a process for all of us, as Im reminded reading here. For all my cousin's "she misses you so much" I'll admit to wondering what md's thinking now, next move, whether she might reach out in some way. Finally it's not an all consuming red alert obsession for me but more of a curiosity - another sign of some healing taking place.

[moglow]

Me again. It's sinking in - there is no "next move" from her, is there? My mother's okay with not talking to me unless it's to serve some purpose for her. She's really not interested. How many times must I reinforce that before i really get what that means?? I'm no more invisible than I've ever been for her, but it sure smarts today. I reached out to her and nothing. It's all a big fat nothing.

This isn't no contact y'all, it's a freaking invisibility cloak. I can see out but she sees nothing. She never has.

[Pepin]

Me again. It's sinking in - there is no "next move" from her, is there? My mother's okay with not talking to me unless it's to serve some purpose for her. She's really not interested. How many times must I reinforce that before i really get what that means?? I'm no more invisible than I've ever been for her, but it sure smarts today. I reached out to her and nothing. It's all a big fat nothing.

This isn't no contact y'all, it's a freaking invisibility cloak. I can see out but she sees nothing. She never has.

I am so sorry that you are going through this.  I often feel similar as you with DPD MIL the way that I am literally invisible.  I learned a long time ago that it was useless for me to accompany DH to visit her.  If we went out to eat, there was no point in even sitting next to her anymore because she just wouldn't talk to me or acknowledge my existence.  It was as if she was void of being able to have a conversation.  But she sure could talk with DH whenever she wanted to. Except that it wouldn't be in English and therefore I wouldn't be able to join in...and DH couldn't be othered to translate or let me in in somehow. 

When she would visit at our home it wouldn't be any better.  Didn't matter if I peppered her with questions or tried to converse.  I'd get one word answers in return which seemed to hurt more than the silence. 

Is there a next move?  Seeing as how my DPD MIL is expiring, there is no "next move" in my mind.  She has nothing left to say nor the energy to say it.  Her final move is to pass without having uttered a single word.  That means no apology....nothing along the signs of "your are a good wife and mother" -- "please take care of my son and grandchildren for me".  That being said, I know I already do well at all these things and the last thing I need is any sort of validation from her.  And besides, she has no experience anyway since she did things so differently than I did.  People like these PDs are all the same.  They may play different games but it all supports the same agenda. 

Apples and oranges....

[moglow]

Stupid is as stupid does / doomed if you do, doomed if you don't - and I fail to see how I didn't see this one coming when I opened the dadgummed door myself!!

I just replaced an underperforming phone, new one is nothing uber fancy, just a more recent model that was willing do do what I wanted to do. You know, like occasionally make the call I want instead of ignoring me or announcing there's a system error and to try again later. I get said new phone and have been trying to figure out what makes it tick, where things are, transferring contact and pics from old phone, deleting out stuff I don't need and updating those I do. Fun times. Contacts are a challenge because apparently they're stored in google, my cell carrier as well as the phone itself. I just now found that each of those three lists have a different number of contacts, so they're not syncing as I'd like them to. I delete some only to have them reappear or remain elsewhere. So there's that.

Over the weekend i gave up in frustration and decided to leave it for a while, decided to soak myself in a bubble bath. In so doing I butt dialed mommie dearest [hereinafter "md"]. Not exactly but to all intents and purposes - bumped that button when I threw the phone down on the couch or the cats ran across it or it bounced against the tv remote. Don't know doesn't matter. Yeah. I'll learn to screen lock going forward. But I digress ...

Later I realize she'd left a message and it's rather snippy, asking what's going on and for me to call her back. Um no - it's after 8pm and I'm not going through that door - some lessons I learned a long time ago! I get up the next morning and see md had called again so I return her call [only to find that she'd left another, more ...emphatic message. Also trying to get my notifications set up so I see note messages sooner rather than later!]

Well. That "conversation" went about as well as you can imagine. There's no forgiveness or allowance for simple human error. Md provided a full on rant about how much pain she's in and she's not sleeping and she stayed awake all night because she didn't know why I called and I didn't call her back and what if something was wrong and she's worried and I didn't call because I don't care and on and on and on. She'd demand AN EXPLANATION! then talked right over me with all the baseless accusations, assumptions and nastiness that she has readily at hand. I tried. I pulled up my patience and common sense and tried to calmly and reasonably address her concerns. I wasn't calling her or anyone else back after 8pm, I just don't. Period. I wouldn't care to be woken up so I afford others the same courtesy.

That wasn't enough, she pounced and stomped and poked and stabbed some more. Okay, I get it - she's upset and worked herself up into a mad. But again, there's no need. I'm sorry you were inconvenienced? irritated? disappointed? aggravated? by it all, and hopefully it won't happen again. "but I TOLD you to call me back and you didn't and I didn't know why or what happened and I don't understand how you can't just make a simple call when I told you to ..." [in my head: THIS!!! THIS IS WHY I DON"T CALL!!] and ramped herself right back up into a big fat mad. It didn't end well.

Today - a few days after I thought it was over or at least as resolved as it could be - I get a text from her, implying that I was lying in my attempts to explain the butt dial. Why on earth would I deliberately do this to myself?! But seriously, enough already. Mistakes happened and I'll do what I can to stop future occurrences. "What do you MEAN you'll "do what you can"???" Mother. You made your point already. Please just stop. Stop with the ugliness and the sarcasm and the insults. As she talks over me. Again. More nastiness about how I never call [ya think?!] and how long it's been and that I don't know what's going on up there/her house. No. I don't. The last several times she returned any of my calls all she could do was unload about things that had nothing to do with me whatsoever. So I stopped.

But the piece de resistance from her text today [still claiming she doesn't get mine]: "just when I thought things were going to be okay..." What possible wall did THAT ping off, mommie dearest? "Okay" is defined as you sweeping it under a big ole rug, pretending you've not been an ass or treated me like said dirt? "Okay" is not open warfare? "Okay" is you trying to pretend victim while I'm all mean for calling you on your shit?
But yeah. All this over a butt dial. I need to revamp my cell plan, get that block back in place.

[Cat of the Canals]

Wow. Sounds like she's been saving up all her unused nastiness in a bottle somewhere (or maybe a large vat, since a bottle doesn't seem big enough) in the off-chance you'd call at some point.

[moglow]

Six months. Six months blissful silence and three weeks after a cordial but neutral phone call, here we are. How on God's green did she see "things were going to be okay," without a word of explanation or apology for the way she talked to me?? Not just once or twice on a bad day, but a whole freakin host of bad days that turned into a sour life! As y'all have pretty much all said for years now, let a little time pass and apparently it's acceptable [in her world] to continue on unimpeded. Until she decides it's not. Because God forbid I should stand up for myself like I did today, try to be a reasonable human being.

How does one go through an entire life with so little humanity?!

[Hilltop]

Hey Moglow this is such a familiar pattern to me as well.  There are hurtful words or a hurtful action and then if I react or get upset or take some time out, my mother simply vanishes, sends a few "hope you are well" texts and then at some stage she assumes things will return to normal when I am over my little dummy spit and off we go on our normal routine of her being nasty and me expected to be silent and take it.  There is never an acknowledgment from her end that her words or actions have led to any of this.  The only thing acknowledged is my reaction to it.

As you say no words of explanation, no apology not even a conversation about what happened.  I mean what goes on in their heads.  They say these really mean things and then expect others to simply shut up about it.  They either truly don't see it or truly don't believe they need to be bothered about it. In some ways I find it fascinating they can do this with so little remorse.  I would love to be able to get inside their mind on one occasion and actually witness what they are thinking.  I really think it would be mind blowing.

Where do you think you'll go from here?  I am guessing this has stirred things up a bit for you.