I’m stuck at their house

[SunnyMeadow]

You guys...I'm living at their house for the past five days. 

My dad had bad Covid, weeks in the hospital and sent home with oxygen. He is basically helpless. Then my mom was weak, not eating or drinking and fell in the house! I drove over, can't lift her and called the fire department and ambulance. She had a stroke, can't function and has bad memory issues! When it rains it pours. 

I finally was able to get into her online banking (dad does none of that stuff) so at least I can pay their bills. Good thing I'm a signer on their bank account. What a mess. She had let the bills go for a few months.

My husband is home alone 45 minutes from here. Things have turned upside down in a flash.

My dad tells me he always thought he'd die easily in his sleep and not go through this decline. 

No planning, no preparations. He said "in the old days, children would bring their parents in to live with them". They'd have a room set up for them. Guilt anybody?? Guess what!? I'm NOT a f*cking nurse or caregiver. Nor do I want to be.  I have my own health issues. Now he's saying he wants to die. Good times.

I have sympathy for both of them, don't get me wrong. It's an awful situation. But wow this is so much more difficult with a NPD parent. I'm the only one left of the huge blended family that even bothered with them. I was a good little daughter who even after shitty treatment kept coming back for more. Look where that got me.

I have no idea if a woman in her late 80 will get back to decent health. She can barely remember anything. she can still make phone calls to dad and I but not much more than that.

So anyway that's my update. I never thought this would happen. I'm not completely heartless but this is really getting to me.

I've read that weeks of no appetite and not drinking liquids is a sign of the body preparing for death. She still doesn't want to eat. Have you heard this? I'm grasping at straws. She'll probably outlive me.

[blacksheep7]

No planning, no preparations. He said "in the old days, children would bring their parents in to live with them". They'd have a room set up for them. Guilt anybody?? Guess what!? I'm NOT a f*cking nurse or caregiver. Nor do I want to be.  I have my own health issues. Now he's saying he wants to die. Good times.

I'm sorry that you and your parents are going through this!  Tough situation when both parents become sick dependent helpless children, expecting you to repair it all.
I understand that you won't burden yourself, it will suck the life out of you. As for your father's comment he is placing guilt upon you.  I'm glad that you won't fall for that.
Yes it was the old way,  when they didn't have facilities or housing complex for the elderly with medical assistance.

I don't know if not eating or drinking liquids leads to immediate death but eventually, weeks as you say  will cause other problems.  I know that it is easier said than done but don't look so far ahead unless their health is deteriorating.

Stay strong Sunny Meadow. We all know that you are not heartless.    

[Sneezy]

Oh no, SunnyMeadow, I am so sorry you are going through this.  What a mess!  My number one, most important piece of advice - DO NOT bring either parent into your house to live with you.  You are correct when you say you are not a caregiver.  Managing care is one thing, providing care is a whole different nightmare.

Is your mom in the hospital?  If so, request a social worker and try to arrange it so that she goes right from the hospital into memory care (or rehab or whatever she qualifies for).  Make it clear that you can not care for her (and neither can your dad).  Be firm, as the hospital will try to guilt you into taking her and assuming responsibility for her care.  You have no legal obligation to take her into your home or to care for her in her home. 

Your dad also needs care.  Can he afford an aide to come to his house?  How about assisted living?  Unfortunately, what happens next will be dependent on their finances.  Worst case, they will have to sell their house to pay for the care they need.  Are you in the US?  Medicaid will kick in once they spend down their assets, but finding a bed in a facility that takes Medicaid can take some work.

As far as no appetite on your mom's part, yes, people do eat less and sleep more as they get closer to death.  But . . . old people in general eat less and sleep more as they age.  So it's difficult to say.  As your mom is in her late eighties and has had a stroke, she probably doesn't have much time left.  But there are people in memory care facilities who are non-verbal and barely mobile and who have been that way for years.  So be prepared.

You are not heartless at all!  You are a saint to be taking care of your parents at this point.  So be easy on yourself and when you consider various options, always ask yourself "what is the easiest, least-stressful option for me?"  That *sounds* selfish, but it isn't.  Because if you try to choose options that are difficult and stressful for you, you will burn out and won't be able to help them at all.  So keep it simple, keep it as easy as possible, utilize all of your parents' financial resources (not yours, theirs!), and take all the help you can get from anyone who offers.  Don't take any criticism personally.  No matter what you do, it will be far from ideal, as aging can be a messy prospect.  There is no perfect.  If you're the type of person who grades yourself, this is a time to aim for a B-, don't kill yourself trying for an A.

I will be thinking of you and hoping things improve.  Many hugs 

[SunnyMeadow]

Thank you both for sharing your thoughts and giving me info and reminders. My brain is toast and I keep getting frazzled. Dad has me running all over doing chores and he wants me to sell the house, sell the car, sell the furniture. Poor guy. I know he's scared. I'm trying to hold it together.
Your replies have helped.

[RainbowG]

Hey SunnyMeadow,

You have all of my sympathy! The fact that you're willing to help them in spite of the hurt they've caused you all their lives says a lot about you. Please try not to make them or anyone else make you feel like you should sacrifice yourself and your life for their sake. I know that's extremely difficult to do when they're in a crisis. Their health difficulties are tragic, but they don't change the facts.

I was reading a book today about coping with difficult aging parents that started to really get to me. The authors were constantly pushing you to empathize with your parents. Their theory is that it helps you cope. While I have found that it can ease some anxiety over their behavior, I've also found that it's best to be careful with this. With difficult parents who have no limits, too much empathy can lead to denying your own needs, and none of us deserves that.

Please make time for self-care. 

[Sneezy]

With difficult parents who have no limits, too much empathy can lead to denying your own needs, and none of us deserves that.

Those are some of the wisest words I've heard in a while.  Thank you!  I am going to remember this as I deal with my aging mom and in-laws.  Empathy is helpful, until it is used to manipulate us into hurting ourselves in order to help them.

[wisingup]

I'm so sorry, Sunny Meadow.  These things do just drop out of the blue.  You are a good person to go to their aid, but remember that your physical & mental health are just as important as theirs.  Hang in there & don't let your dad panic you into doing anything rash, I doubt he's thinking clearly at the moment.  Keeping good thoughts for you.

[SunnyMeadow]

Thanks to everyone who replied. It means a lot to me. I've been re-reading your messages as I can through the day.

This has pointed out how I need to nail down and finalize my own elder care long before I ever get there. I don't want my children to go through this.

[Amadahy]

Dang, SunnyMeadow! I am so sorry.

Sometimes eating and drinking very little is the body's way of preparing to cross over.  It's hard to say.  Can your folks afford some hired help? 

You must be in your 50s or 60s?  I'm 53 and I know there is no way I'd be physically, mentally or otherwise able to care for two very ill people.  Please, as you can, make an exit plan.  If you're in the US, a caseworker can help through eldercare agencies.  You don't need to do this alone. 

We're thinking of you and hoping things can get sorted in a way that helps your folks and gives you rest and as much peace as possible. 

[Psuedonym]

Hey SunnyMeadow!

I'm so sorry you're going through this. I've been there and its extremely stressful. 

You asked: I've read that weeks of no appetite and not drinking liquids is a sign of the body preparing for death. She still doesn't want to eat. Have you heard this? I'm grasping at straws.


Yes, absolutely. My uPDM (remember Negatron?) died quite suddenly. She went into the hospital for a few tests and the next thing I hear the hospital calls and tells me she's in a coma and wont make it through the day. (They were right). However when I called my aunt she was not at all surprised because she had spoken with her in the last couple of weeks and she had no appetite or interest in eating anything, etc. My aunt is a nurse and has been a caretaker to pretty much every old person in the family and she said she recognized this pattern of someone approaching death. So take that anecdotal evidence for what it's worth.

I also was convinced that Negatron would outlive me... but she didn't. You will outlive yours as well.

My parents did the same thing as yours and made zero plans for what they would do when they got very old. My dad, who was a kind person but very much an enabler, was of the 'if its unpleasant or upsetting than just don't think about it' philosophy. Super helpful. This is such a hallmark of emotionally immature people; just ignore it until it can no longer be ignored and then make somebody else deal with it. Reading about your dad saying he wants to die and thought he would  he'd die easily in his sleep and not go through this decline and  "in the old days, children would bring their parents in to live with them" actually really pisses me off. What a bunch of self pitying bullshit. Its easy to get sucked into their narrative that this is the most tragic and awful thing that has ever happened to anyone. Here's what an emotionally mature person would say:

Dear SunnyMeadow, we are so lucky to have a daughter like you. Even though we didn't do anything to plan for this absolute inevitability, which was completely unfair to you, you have been wonderful to us and we appreciate it. Yes, it's sad to get old and face your own mortality, but dying is an inevitable part of living, and most people would consider themselves very lucky to make it to their late 80s. It would be ridiculous and unrealistic to expect you to care for us, we're grateful for you stepping in like this and helping us find the care we need.

You are a very empathetic person and very different from your own parents in that you don't want to put your children through what you're dealing with now.

[SunnyMeadow]

Thank you Amadahy and pseudonym! I appreciate your replies and caring words.

I'm still here and will be calling some home care aide places tomorrow. My mom is in the hospital, she had a stroke. She is in really bad shape, her memory is shot. The good news is she sounds nicer yet confused. I've been doing Internet searches to read about elderly having a stroke and I think everybody sugarcoats it!  So I've been staying here with dad and holy cow... It's getting to me.

I am in my mid-50s and definitely not built to be a caregiver. And when dad is having me run all over doing chores and tasks my brain gets fuzzy and stressed. So annoying. .

I went home for a few hours yesterday and was so thrilled to be there! My dog was excited to see me and my husband was too lol! He's actually recovering from a major surgery and I really don't like to leave him alone but, that's where we are.

I certainly do remember negatron! I think about you and how your life changed after she passed. I remember reading how she went from tests to passing so quickly. That's really the ideal way to go. I hope that happens to me!

It's reassuring to hear about your conversation with your aunt. I've been wondering about her not eating or drinking for a few weeks. I guess time will tell.

His comments really pissed me off also. So I'm living here to care for you and you're making these asinine comments? Maybe I should call his long-lost children? He's my stepdad. Of course mom and dad discarded most of the children/ family because of her perceived slights from them. She always blew everything out of proportion.  Because of poor behavior, mom and dad were discarded by others. And guess who's left??

I really needed to read all these replies. It helps calm me down as I sit here in this dark house and wait to make toast. I know it can't go on forever but I'm doing the countdown until this is resolved in someway.

[GentleSoul]

My late covert alcoholic narc husband stopped eating about a week before he died, then fluids a couple days afterwards.  Hospice told me that is usual thing to happen.  Is part of the path of the body shutting down.   Just wanted to answer your question.

Sorry you have all this going on.  Sounds exhausting.

I was care giver to my late husband.  I really wouldn't recommend it.  Care giving a non-PD is difficult but a PD is off the scale difficult.  He made things many times harder than they should have been. 

[lkdrymom]

I think you should have asked him which one of his kids(not stepkid) he was planning on moving in with.

Did your parents take in their parents when they were younger?  My parents had my grandmother for one month and regretted it horribly.

Those of us who have gone through this certainly know we do not want to inflict this same situation on our own children.

I assume your mom won't be returning home and that she will be in rehab then long term care?

[SunnyMeadow]

Thank you gentlesoul and lkdrymom.

I'll bet It was terribly difficult to be a caregiver to your covert alcoholic narc husband! I can't imagine.

My mother would never have her mother live with her. She did have her dad for about one month. But she had a full-time caretaker in the house with them.

She's waiting to be transferred to a skilled nursing facility. But due to Covid a nice facility near here won't take her because she tested positive. I have no information on if she will ever come home. I guess the skilled nursing place will determine all of that. In the meantime my dad wants me to get him into an assisted living community. That will be nice! And if she gets out she can go there too.

He talked to her on the phone and they both decided it would've been better if they had done this assisted-living a few years ago  oh really, ya think?

He pretty much does the talking and she just agrees with him due to her memory issues.

[Lilyloo]

SunnyMeadow, I just saw this. My heart breaks for you. It is to much stress.   So his children do nothing? That is awful.  I wish I had words. I just feel so awful for you. You are a dear person who helps so many here.  You have helped me so much. I pray this ends for you soon.   

[Spring Butterfly]

I know many who point to the supposed "fact" that parents had a room waiting for them in one of their children's homes. However, this is not fact. Sometimes that happened but it is incorrect to indicate that was always the case in every home.

Here's some facts:

In tribal cultures people lived near one another. Elderly members had their own dwelling. Same with small villages. People lived near one another. Small town, same thing, elderly had their own home. I observed this still in practice the norm in Italy to this day - a culture traditionally famed for having close families. Relatives all have their own home nearby other relatives. In all these cases elderly are actively contributing to the good of the group in some way within their physical limits. They feel useful, valued and good about themselves.

In farm cultures where I live it's the norm to have a small home on the farm for aging relatives. There's a living room, kitchen, bedroom and bathroom. It's a separate dwelling. Grandchildren come and go freely. The grown children have a life, they are busy caring for their own home, younger children, running the farm and keeping the men fed. No one is sitting down and the aging relatives actively contribute to the work of gardening, canning and mending clothes. The aging men contribute with repairs or barn activities. They are made to feel useful and it contributes to their self esteem and self worth.

In extended family I've observed the same - aging relatives have their own home for as long as possible. People may bring meals or visit but they have their own home.

With friends I've observed the same. Aging relatives have their own space.

It's even common for an "in law suite" that is completely separate with a separate entrance.

Nope, sorry, I'm not sure what fairy tale these ones are living where they imagine sitting on their throne while people come in to visit, showering them with love and attention. I've not seen that in real life. I've had the same fairy tale read to me from the PD playbook and I must've missed that chapter somewhere along the line. My PD relatives read from that same book yet when we visited elderly relatives they cooked us a meal and we had a short few hour visit.

[Psuedonym]

Okay, wait, what? He's your step-dad?? Wow, I don't know if I'd be able to hold my self back from saying 'well maybe the problem is you need to start calling your biological children to find out which one of them is getting your room ready' next time he brings that #$%@ up.

Or you could tell him that in the 'olden times' in Scandinavia the old people jumped off a cliff in order to avoid becoming a burden to their families. Here's a scene from the very funny  comedy Norsemen about the subject: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DwD7f5ZWhAk

Sorry/not sorry!! Hang in there, Sunny Meadow!

[Starboard Song]

The vast majority of our work here at Out of the FOG is focused on helping people find a space in which they can thrive, either by managing disordered PDs in their lives or by excising them from their lives. We also focus on helping people heal, or stay strong, so we do not become less humane ourselves because of our pain and hurt.

Your parents both deserve -- as all people do, PD or not -- kind and honest decency as you discuss this with them. That does not mean you owe them any particular services. It doesn't mean they get to live with you. It doesn't mean you ever have to listen to abusive or unfair statements. I've been NC with my in-laws for over 6 years, so I don't even think it means you have to be present.

But I believe you owe it to them and to yourself to be kind and clear as you communicate and enforce your boundaries, always speaking in ways that are up to your standards. I say so because I can tell that your own standards are high, and you are clearly struggling with this challenge.  I wish you the strength of mountains, as you develop a plan that works for you and convey to them those plans.

[Psuedonym]

 SunnyMeadow, I don't think anybody thinks you've been anything other than loving and kind to your parents despite all you've been through.

[SunnyMeadow]

Thank you, each and everyone of you. You have all helped me so much. I'm so thankful to have this community where I can discuss these difficult issues without being judged. Other people who don't have PD folks in their lives just wouldn't get it.

Boy, I wish I was quick enough to ask stepdad which of his children I should call! I really wish I had. If I called any of them they'd    and I wouldn't blame them a bit.

I appreciate the facts on the different cultures with their elderly, eye opening! So really, all children in the olden days didn't take in their parents! The Scandinavian thing about jumping off a cliff made me laugh! (maybe it shouldn't have--but it did) I could only imagine stepdad's face if I told him that tidbit 

So now an update, I getting tired of these, believe me. He could barely eat last night and has been having trouble with swallowing food and pills for a few days, it's getting worse and worse. I took HIM TO THE HOSPITAL. They are both in different hospitals. I didn't get back to his house until 10:00pm last night, slept there and then came home. DH and I went to an assisted living facility this morning to check it out and to get them registered and I couldn't write the deposit check fast enough.

This is exhausting. I'm hoping the hospital keeps him for at least tonight. I want to sleep in my own bed!

psuedonym, I wish I had the chance to read what you posted. I trust you to give good, caring and knowledgeable advice about this crazy stuff. You've certainly been through enough of it