I am back home

[escapingman]

This is hard, got a call from school and they told me SG is a bit upset and is missing her mum and sister. The thing is I would never want to stop SG from having contact with uNPDx, but I know she would get hurt. uNPDx has been texting SG but SG has not replied, but I have a feeling the only reason is to make SG withdraw any allegations and that she don't really care about SG. The teacher is going to make both girls sit with each other in a room as SG said she wants to speak to her sister. This will be interesting to see how it pans out, my guess is that GC will sit quiet and don't say anything, alternatively blame SG for everything going on.

I need the court to speed things up now, if I stop SG from messaging uNPDx I suddenly risk looking like I am the one alienating and not the other way around. Where is the manual on this?

[hhaw]

EM:

I'm so glad you have a T you trust to help you through this.

It will take time to calm your Nervous System and train your Sympathetic Nervous System to activate more quickly, consistently, as your new default....and calm down the fight or flight biochemical hijack, which unfornutately will be a part of life for a while, IME. Accept it.  Don't assume it's terrible.... it is what it is.  The biochemical hijack isn't your fault.  It's how you've lived and the way you've always coped can change and facing the scary stuff is how that happens, IME.  Once you're aware of what's going on, you decide what to keep, what to change and what to get rid of and it all belongs.  It's OK to thank whatever needs to go away, like peace making at all costs.  It served you at some point in your life.... let it know it's no longer necessary and give it permission to rest.  Let it know you're an adult in charge and your'e learning to set boundaries and keep yourself safe.... the kids safe.... and the peacemaking part of you at all costs can retire.... rest.  Not go away, for it belongs, as do all parts of you.  I hope you find abiding comfort and relief as you think about these things and accept.  There's magic in facing painful things, Em.  Magic in understanding and cultivating choice, IME.

As long as you keep practicing, you'll get better and better at calming and being calm..... you'll also be modeling it for SG and GC.  Breathing mindfullly every day....... checking in with your body and how you feel..... accepting everything as it comes.... helps.  This is a process and you're doing great.  Truly.  You are.

Including GC in whatever practices you're finding helpful, to find peace, might be a lovely way to connect more deeply with her during these stressful days.  You have the delightful opportunity of creating new family routines and holiday rituals.... figure out new daily routines.  It could be a jumping off place when GC is reactive.... you can calmly ask her to check in with her body and share her feelings....listen, validate while remaining calm.  She needs you to SHOW her what it IS to evaluate reality and deal with reactivity, IME.  What it is to problem solve without assigning blame and making an observation personal. 

Maybe ask GC to write out some ideas and think about what problem solving might look like around the recycling bins?  Without any judgment or what feels like criticism to her?    You can roll that new way of communicating into meal planning, shopping, cooking, cleanup and dealing with moving the stbx's things into boxes and out of your living area.  Basic skills can build and become part of SG's Nervous System as it becomes part of yours.  That's so amaing and uplifting to contemplate.  All good and nothing is without a learning curve.  Learning curves mean growth...breathe into them and think before you speak.  If you're feeling reactive, maybe ask for a time out and state a time you'll come back to finish the talk.  Maybe sort stbx's things yourself, but I'd like to think it could be good to incude SG...but you're there and you'll know what's best.  I trust your instincts.  I hope you can relax into trusting your gut too.  It's relaxing and not thinking or forcing.... it's a light or heavy FEELING, IME.  A knowing.

About the contact between SG and her mum.....
what do you feel that would look like, best case scenario?

What options are available to you, regarding supervision centers and people you trust to suprevise vistiation, should that become a reality.

Anyone tasked with supevising would have to be able to stand up to stbx AND be up for a daunthing, time consuming job they will not enjoy and be responsible for..... it's a lot to ask someone and you need to trust them.  SG needs to trust them and they need to be trust worthy.

You can consider SG;s time with her mum as something happening in public, where SG won't get pulled behind closed doors, in private and blamed or criticized... made to feel shame and guilt.  Maybe there are things SG and her mum like doing they can do together, in public.... like bowling or throwing pots or playing games at the arcade?  Going to a meal and a movie?

Maybe you'll have to prepare yourself for stbx to refuse to parent at all IF she can't do it her way, in privae, behind closed doors. 

STBX knows SG loves her.... depends on having a mum and stbx knows you need SG to be Ok.  THIS is the interpersonal terrorism at it's most toxic, IME...... and not all PDs are willing to employ a scorched earth policy, IME.  Maybe stbx would never completely cut SG out of her life IF she had to comply with safeguards, but maybe she would?

I'm guessing yu have a pretty good idea what stbx will and won't do, what extremes she'd likely rise to, etc.

Listen to your gut and be as proactive as you can. 

Best case scenario, from where I'm standing, is for stbx to trade money and a good financial deal for avoiding the abuse allegations and consequences of same.

Best case scenario is that stbx feels she's WON if she gets enough money to be comfortable and doesn't have to spend any time parenting,bc parenting kids is tough and takes time.  If stbx is happy to be the good time mum, taking them to fun things on breaks and never keeping SG overnight until she's old enough to fend for herself, which thank GOD will happen one day... maybe that's best case scenario.  Maybe not.

I hope it's uplifting to remember your children will be young adults very soon.  They won't always be children requiring protections and intervention.

On the flip side, and you've likely been reading about it on other's poster's threads.... watching children struggle with a PD parent, watching them get pulled into the PD narrative and manipulated, used against the non parent like a weapon is a terrible thing and some kids fly above it...manage to avoid it and some don't.

It's important to remember you aren't responsible for your children when they;e adults. They'll make their choices and dealw ith the consequences,like adults are supposed to do.

All yuo can do is have the relationship with them you want to have and trust they'll figure it out.

Figuring out what to tell the children won't be such a huge issue for you, as they're smack in the middle of everything and well aware of what's what.

The tough part for you will be how GC is manipulated and you've been posting about that...... it's certain stbx is posing as a victim, telling GC you're stealing, harming, abusing and tryign to destroy her while making the noises to back up the allegations.

Since GC has always calmed into time alone with you.... I'm sure she knows the truth, but as other posters have said... she does what she has to in order to get by and survive in her mother's world.

I hope your T is on top of helping you stay responsive and get out of reactivity or, hopefully, avoid it when possible.

It's going to come and go, but bring board member's filters into meetings and the courtroom with you.  Try to shift into observer mode and SEE things like board members would....... and keep breathing.

You're doing grea... just so proud of you.

[justducky]

I need the court to speed things up now, if I stop SG from messaging uNPDx I suddenly risk looking like I am the one alienating and not the other way around. Where is the manual on this?

Ugh. What a tricky, heartbreaking situation.

Maybe contact one of the DV groups and ask their advice?

[escapingman]

Right now there is no chance I would let uNPDx see SG, her only reason to do it at the moment would be to make SG be kinder to her in any interviews. Also, only place I would let them meet would be a cafe in public, I have zero trust in uNPDx as she would be seething with SG for telling the teachers about her abuse. SG knows, but it doesn't stop her missing her mum. I still miss the person I thought X was, but I know she doesn't exist which makes it easier. It's more difficult for a child to get that the "nice" mum is just a mask and that the real mum is the one abusing.

It hurts, but it's the reality. Thanks for all your support.

[escapingman]

Today it's 2 weeks of no contact.

BUT...... she got to me, and SG. SG is furious, I am less than impressed. The girls have 1, 1 activity that is shared and that uNPDx still has the contact with the organiser on her own. So, she just sent a message to SG telling her the time has changes. This completely mess up the plans for tomorrow, but SG managed to push back and get it changed to something slightly better. But, why I am I not surprised? The only little thing she is still in charge of, she mess around.

This got my fight or flight going, not good. But I stayed calm enough and did not contact her.

[hhaw]

Oh, EM..... stbx has just begun to mess with things and the kids and you.... if she's not rocked back on her heels by the courts and threat of consequences for her actions....she'll give do everything she can to drive you off the deep end and into a rage.... IF she can. 

I think you understand that truth by now, but it's still maddening when children are jerked around and used as leverage, IME.

I hope you documented the incident and can show how it's out of the norm..... the Courts don't like it when children's activities and routines get messed with by an irrational parent using the kids to jerk the other parent around, IME. 

The sunny side of this chaos comes when our children identify and name it.  Your SG was smart eough and strong enough to do that. 

If she holds her position and tells her truth.... there's a chance her mother and sister will get help to make positive changes.

If SG folds... if you fold..... there's zero chance stbx will get help and every chane stbx completely blocks the childrens' ability to get help... that's a truth, IME and it's difficult to get around a PD parent' s right to alienate children from the other parent, therapists and anyone who doesn't agre with the PD, IME.  Harm has to be proven and PDs get smarter about giving us proof when they understand how documentation works IF they're capable of being rational at all.  Sometimes they can't help themselves, no matter what they know.  It's hard to say what your PD will do, but she doesn't seem very crafty, IMO.

Tell SG you two need to tell the truth and get eveyrone help.......
then stick it to the PD any way you can to the fullest extent of the law and your ability to hold her accountable for every
little
thing
she
does.

For every small failure to compl with Court Orders.

For all the harm you can document against you and the girls.

The more accountability you push for, the better chance stbx WILL get some help and then it's not likely to stick if consequences go away.

I hope you can breathe through stbx's crazy making behaviors and look towards using it against her....... what CAN you do? 

Sorry SSG is upset.

[escapingman]

I am exhausted, staring to really get worn down. Things to a bit heated with SG yesterday and she starting going on about seeing her mum. She also revealed she had been speaking to school about this and then she said she was not allowed to tell me what school had told me, but she did anyway. Apparently school will interfere if SG has not seen uNPDx within 2 weeks and try to arrange for it in some way. I cannot see how this can even possible be allowed, we are going through court cases and have orders against uNPDx. As much as I understand SG want to see her mum (the version with the mask) it is a direct safety issue with this as uNPDx will have so much resentment for SG and what she has done that she could erupt at any time. SG is only a child, she doesn't understand to the full extent so therefor I am trying to protect her. SG even started to act smug to be as if I was the bad one and if she wants to see her mum she can do that whenever. Sure she can, but if things go horrible bad, what do I do? I also found out SG had only blocked her mum and not her sister from seeing her statuses on her social account, and she posts everything she is doing there (almost including when she goes to the toilet). She got really angry when I suggested she either block her sister as well for now, or else stop posting statuses. I am not feeling comfortable that uNPDx can see every movement we do through GC's account (I am pretty sure any news would be shared). But then, SG could tell school I told her to block her sister and then they get it wrong. But, I am starting to feel like no one actually believes me or think it's not that bad. I really thought I had school on my side, but not so sure anymore. Maybe us men are supposed to just suck it up, or is verbal abuse just something to live with? My energy is getting lower and I won't be able to fight much longer if no one believes me.

[escapingman]

I give up.

Apparently it is not urgent so the court won't do a hearing for at least 2 months. What's wrong with people.

[justducky]

I'm so sorry, EM.

99% of people have no idea what it's like to be abused by a PD.

Please take some time to process this extremely disappointing turn of events, then regroup.

[Poison Ivy]

I can understand SG wanting to talk to her mom. Is contact between them currently prohibited by the court? If not, I suggest that you remind SG why you're concerned about her having contact with her mom.

[escapingman]

I can understand SG wanting to talk to her mom. Is contact between them currently prohibited by the court? If not, I suggest that you remind SG why you're concerned about her having contact with her mom.

It's not prohibited, SG knows she is allowed to have contact but she is worried. She knows that she very likely, to use her own words, get to see "mum faking being nice and then shout". My worry is that uNPDx would go all out on the fake nice and do her all to show SG how nice she is and manipulate SG that she has changed. It seems like my only chance right now is if social or the police find some big concerns, not sure how they will find it when they are not interested in investigating it though.

2 months without seeing GC and with uNPDx trying to get hold of SG will kill me. I am not sure how to manage this.

[square]

Do not have her block her sister.

Do figure out where the red line of info is and draw it. Unfortunately you'll have to let more slide than you'd like (being realistic) but ensure certain things are adhered to.

[escapingman]

Do not have her block her sister.

Do figure out where the red line of info is and draw it. Unfortunately you'll have to let more slide than you'd like (being realistic) but ensure certain things are adhered to.

No it would not be blocking her sister, only for her to see status updates. But, yes I will have to accept I lost and just give up. I have no energy for fighting a non winable battle.

[justducky]

Although I understand that it's easy for me to say because I'm not in the middle of your debacle, it's not a black and white, win or lose thing. Sure, it would be ideal if the courts would prevent STBX from seeing you and your girls and give you full custody. But that's not happening.

One thing you can do is teach SG age-appropriate methods to handle her mother. Also think about your boundaries and actions going forward. Try to focus on what you and do and control.

[moglow]

Urgent in the eyes of the court system is not the same as ours - I would imagine the courts are backed up and trying to do what they can to catch up from pandemic shut downs. An attorney friend told me that local civil court has only recently opened back up to in-person hearings. For two+ years during worst of the pandemic in our area, they scheduled criminal and DV cases only. Family court all but shut down except on an emergency basis.

That said, this is actually a good time for SG to start learning about acceptable boundaries and how to treat others. I'm a big fan of the Golden Rule "do unto others as you'd have them do unto you" - and understanding that "they" may not do things the same. Doesn't matter, that's on THEM and their conscience. Someone [?] said that we teach people how to treat us, and that's very true.

I'm not at all saying that SG or anyone else should therefore snap back at those who abuse with more of the same, but we can and should learn how to respond rather than react. Mom never learned that and she may be teaching GC to do the same, but it behooves SG and you to hang in and continue to do the right thing. The right thing isn't always easy, not in the face of unfair or flat out abusive treatment, but it serves us best.

It kind of goes towards age-appropriate behavior in general, and SG can see where she and others do this every day in friendships, at school and sports. GC or mom calls you / SG names or yells? Retaliating with more of the same just adds fuel to the fire and gives them opportunity to point fingers back at you for the same. Take a step back and a deep breath before proceeding, then maybe tell them that's hurtful or wasn't necessary. Choose a softer path and find inner peace before responding, if at all. Change the subject. End the conversation if necessary, politely - you have to get to work/class/homework/bed. She decides she doesn't want to be talked to that way? Don't make or return their calls until she feels she can better handle it. BE your boundaries, LIVE your boundaries! Same as you do with anyone else, and you'll be accountable for your own behavior. What others choose to do really is on them.

[losingmyself]

My Dear man, you have NOT lost. It's a bump in the road. Maybe a big one, and my heart hurts for you, but you have come SO FAR!! You have handled so much and you're stronger than you can even imagine.
Regroup. Get your energy back. Re read the great advice given here, and I'm sure more will come.
Find your center. It'll be ok. It'll just take time.
We're all sending you all the strength we can.

[escapingman]

Not sure I why I worried that uNPDx were going to be playing nice, she just left SG in tears. The girls have an activity where they have 30 minutes each, I mentioned it yesterday, that uNPDx where messing up the times. SG did her half an hour and then GC came to replace her, whereby the teacher asked SG if she were happy she only got half an hour when GC got an hour instead of them having 45 minutes left. She had to lie she was OK with it and then came out in tears. Wonderful uNPDx would have been offered half an hour extra to share between the girls but gave it all to GC.....

[hhaw]

EM:

Know stbx is disordered and likely to continue making disordered choices. 

I'm not sure I understand why you can't take over making appointments for SG to attend this activity, but you certainly can document the fact stbx punished SG with less time while giving GC more time, thus upsetting SG. 

About the visitation, you have the Court behind you right now with the house and stbx keeping away from your streets and SG...... USE that.  Be proactive to set up safe vistiation between SG and stbx..

Ideas:
Visitation Center in your area offering various degrees of supervision and preparing reports on vists.

Supervised visitation outside the center.... can you hire a superviser to go with SG?  I know I could in my State, but you're in the UK...not sure what you have there.

Have a friend or relative supervise the visit.

Have the visit in public where the stbx can't talk to the SG without beign overheard....I'd always make sure someone was supeviising, if it was me.

You can help figure out visitation, withhold visitation, offer unsupervised visitation or different levels of supervised visitation,but you don't want the school to make that choice for you, IME.

It will help you to stay level if you drop expectations and trust stbx is struggling even harder than you with the timeline and not getting what she needs. 

You're in T, learning new coping strategies, leaning how to manage stress while stbx is likely out of her mind with anger and disdain after losing control of you, SG and the family home.  You're doing better than she is now.  Think think think how to negotiate and document the truth..... stbx will likely out herself if you remain level, hold compassion for her and keep your emotionls in check.

If you can breathe yourself calm and think clearly.... you'll have more perspective and choices to get you through this with economy of motion, resources and trauma.

[Poison Ivy]

 

[escapingman]

I will take over the activity for SG, it has been a bit tricky as its with just a person and I don't have the contact details. I will have to find them and speak to her and explain and have her contact me for any changes for SG. It really was a low priority for me, but the only thing uNPDx still had some kind of control over - so of course she used it to mess things up. But, I am glad in a way as SG now is furious with her and no longer want to see her. uNPDx blatantly lied to SG and was caught in the lie by SG.

The "only" thing uNPDx has that I want is GC, I am planning for how to do this. If I start asking to see GC or make requests, she will know I want to see GC and therefor try harder to stop me from seeing her. My solicitor asked if she should ask for me to see GC, but I think that might be a bad step right now as uNPDx will be seeing that as a fight to win. I think I will leave all that out and silently try to keep going with social and police and build the case for whenever it will be. I suppose to win a case in 3 months is better than lose an argument now.

Negotiating with uNPDx will not happen, she won't get it and only want to be difficult.