I am back home

[justducky]

From a strategic standpoint it's good that uNPDx is blatant and unsophisticated with her manipulation. Makes it easier for you to plan ahead.

It's still awful for you and your girls, though.

[SonofThunder]

Hello EM,

It reads as if both you and SG received a very quick truth-reminder from stbx regarding what hhaw wrote:

"Know stbx is disordered and likely to continue making disordered choices."


As you know very well, time has its way with the mind, allowing the mind to begin filing some of the bad experience folders while reaching in and bringing the good experience folders forward.  This is a great thing about time, when dealing with the loss of loved ones, and other experiences with which we may be attempting to heal.  But with experiences regarding a PD, especially a living one with whom we must interact for a variety of reasons, it can be detrimental, as we get a very quick reminder of hhaws truthful statement. 

Although very difficult for SG to experience as she doesn't see her mother as often as prior to the separation. But when SG's tears stop, I would assume her mind filing is adjusted once more, with the harsh experience files once again swapped and brought forward, as a reminder of the past.  Is SG also seeing a therapist? 

In the US state in which I reside, a divorce litigation court date is, at this time because of Covid, 2 years out.  Yes, two years.  Im actually pleasantly surprised to read you only have a 3 month wait, although i understand it's difficult.  Lastly, i want to remind you as always, that this is a war...a truth war.  Truth is continually being revealed (and hopefully continually documented by you throughout this process) and war is very fluid.  As the war saying goes "The best plans change the moment the first shot is fired".  I want to encourage you to remember the fluidity of war, and to remain, and plan for, being as flexible as possible with your plans, time, etc.  Moving sideways, backwards and forwards should be expected. 

Consider the truth war similar to a long-term investment in some good but risky stocks; when you buy in on a good one, plan for one hell of a rollercoaster ride, up and down, up and down. But hopefully over time, the long span average is that the hilly stock-price ride is steadily gaining altitude.  Short-term investors have a tough time stomaching the hills.  Truth and time will win the war imo.  We may come out of the war with scars, injuries and bruises, but truth will prevail. 

Spirits up, head down and march forward my friend,

SoT

[hhaw]

EM:
Parents want and attempt to see their children when separated.....thats the expectation.

You can ask to see GC, esp if you're appropriate, consisteby, one.  Ask to have lunch or dinner with her somewhere she loves...ask to pick her up from school and stbx can pick her up from the restaurant....keep it public and be prepared to record any crazy pd behaviors.

If GC loves your dad.....take him along but don't just talk about the divorce.  Talk about what she's up to, how she's doing, remind her a Judge has instructed both mum and you not to talk about the adult stuff in front of the kids and give her permission to push back if any adult tries to include her in it.  Never point out stbx or criticize her in any way...,check, maybe mention something goid about stbx, like her love if a certain tv show or the Queen's recent holiday.....sometimes kids open up about the PD parent if we're honestly compassionate towards the PD, ime.  It's rare, but does happen if the child understands no one is really going to hurt the bleating pd posturing as victim.  Remember, it's likely stbx is lashing out in every direction, including at GC.

When SG begins missing her mum again, have several options for those visits on paper.

Are there  Visitation centers in your area?  That's a good place to start, bc stbx will likely refuse to see SG if she can't get her behind closed doors, in private and not all parents require and insist on dragging kids under complete control before accepting a visit.....its likely to be a theme with your stbx and Judges will notice if you document well.  Believe me, it doesn't play well in Court.

In public, perhaps at school with counselor in the room.  That's scary, bc what if stbx manages to get SG alone, but you make a plan, manage the risks as best you can and keep the facts up front consistently....stbx isn't safe, the girls need advocates and protection from stbx' s abusive behavior.

Another option can be visiting SG at a friend's home....does SG have a good friend with parents who can stand up to stbx?  It's ok to ask for help and it wouldn't be long-term.  Maybe they could meet at a park with SG AND her friend and GC....a playdate involving mum?

Just have options available that make sense.  It's likely stbx will refuse ANY option she can't completely control, esp if she doesn't like the school counselor or the parents of SG's fruend who might supervise a visit, ime.

You're carefully setting up situations where the stbx SHOWS the court who she us, ime.  You should avoid appearances of baiting, however.

You accept terms a parent with nothing to hide would accept while expecting GC to have her moments lashing out at you on her mum' s behalf.  Just keep reassuring her mum and you and grandparents,all adults, will be ok and it's not ok or fair  for her to be in the middle of this....the Judge has forbidden the kids being involved and it would be unfortunate if her mum or you got in trouble for involving the children....so give her permission to stop thinking about it and try to shift to something appropriate and hopefully fun.  I'm thinking arcade or foid GC likes....maybe one of those activity places painting or throwing pots?

How is SG today?

[guitarman]

So sorry to see what you've been going through. All the professionals involved need educating about PDs and the impact on everyone in the family.

We all understand in the forum what you are experiencing as we've been through similar but different situations ourselves.

Just when you think you have the official support you need it is delayed or doesn't come. It is so frustrating and can feel like no one understands or really cares. I know how that feels.

You can see what needs to be done to help yourself and your children but others don't.

I coped by going to mental health carers groups. There I got the practical and emotional support from other people going through similar difficulties. They were all so supportive.

We all care about you and your children here.

Keep talking.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[escapingman]

Thanks for all your support.

SG is doing great right now, she has the odd wobble but I can see how she is calming down. I am starting to feel less on edge as well, no contact is certainly helping the nervous system.

Regarding the girls and seeing GC, I will meet with social services tomorrow and I will see what they say. Hopefully they have some good advice and maybe could raise concerns about uNPDx.

I never want to see uNPDx again, I dread any encounter that will happen. I really can't stand the thought about her and how nasty she is.

[hhaw]

You'll be better off if you don't see the stbx or hear her or have to read messages from her when you  aren't braced and ready for them, IME.

It's not considered "normal" to have ZERO contact between divorcing parents, IME. Attorneys and judges and police officers often have that one Judge's attitude...."Just don't make trouble" and that works against nons when PDs are involved, of course.

So think ahead.... what is your narrative?  What have you proven?  Is your evidence together and readily available to hand to social services? 

PROVING your allegations out of the box is crucial and a game changer, IME.  Don't wait till things are going South to get that together and make it available when explaining your situation...... things got REAL bad before I did that. My attorney was letting me swing and I had to save myself and my kids and THAT notebook was the turning point for me in the custody case.

Don't leave your evidence with anyone.  Show it and get it back.

[escapingman]

I have just kind of got through the initial storm and starting to settle down in the new and getting the grips of where to go from here. The last weeks since the hearing, SG reporting to school, police etc feels like a panic battle just fighting and dealing with whatever came in front of me. It was a necessary thing to do and I feel I won that first battle as uNPDx is out of the house. I lost GC (temporarily only I hope) but I can get some peace and think more clearly. I am meeting with social, but it is a home visit and with SG so not sure how it will go and what is expected. I have all evidence, but again, not sure how to present that with SG at home, maybe I can get some time on my own with the social worker. With a potential hearing a few months away I have the time to regroup and start planning for this, try to tick away some other obstacles in the divorce and maybe get a bit further with the financial discussions. In a few months however, I am sure uNPDx will get up to something and hopefully trip herself up and present me with more evidence she is not capable of behaving.

Thanks for your support, it feels like the first chapter of this nightmare is done and now it's time for the second. 

[justducky]

 

Just a quick note to say that you and your girls are in my thoughts daily. I'm rooting for you all!

[escapingman]

Thanks ducky, the support from you and others are really helping.

I have been thinking a bit, and right now uNPDx is rocked and probably in a bit of a shock. I am going to try to push through with as much as possible to see if she might agree to more before she start hatching a plan herself. Right now, we need to agree the finances, the custody and then signed the divorce. Custody I will work on with social etc to lay the ground work for hearings and whatever comes, but if I can get the finances agreed and out of the way that would be a massive win. Not that I am trying to get more than my share, just an agreement, which you all know is not easy with a PD. I already set the scene with my solicitor so will have to wait and see, but I think I know uNPDx better and she won't follow conventical processes and protocols, so will have to play a game here. I suspect whatever I would offer she would want more, so solicitors idea of proposing a fair deal might be a bad idea for me as I won't have much negotiation space from there.

I know this is far from over, but it is bliss to be able to get on with the days without having constant drama around. I miss my GC and want her back, but right now I rather her being out with uNPDx than all of us living in the middle of the drama where I cannot protect anyone.

[Associate of Daniel]

EM, I've been following your story and am glad things have finally started to move for you.

Do you know where your stbx and gc are living?

AOD

[escapingman]

Do you know where your stbx and gc are living?

They are staying at her mums and that will not end well (she is an extremely devious covert narc), but at least she is out of the house.

[hhaw]

EM:

Because these things drag on....
because you're aversion to conflict and need to make everyone OK is part of how you got to this place....
because it's difficult to lean on others for the long haul wihtout going insane, bc you feel you're putting them out.....
I encourage you to continue seeking out advocates and supporters, particularly those who can advocate for you in the systems and for the children.

Please know stbx will likely escalate, bc that's what she IS.... it's not what she does.  Its a part of her and you don't need any more proof to KNOW that's truth.  Expect insane behavior and wrap your mind around documenting harm to the children rather than writhing and resisting the facts around that difficult to swallow reality....... it's important you SEE that mission in front of you, think it through, be proactive and mitigate harm where you can.  It's a thin dark line, but you're walking it now, my friend and it leads OUT OF THE ABYSS, ime.

I think people in your position waste too much time and energy wishing things weren't so bad and refusing to accept the situation as it is..... so they can get down to brass tacks and do what helps the most.  Thinking things through, documenting, organizing the evidence then putting it on the backburner and turning towards self care and being present with SG and eventually both children.

Remember, what you've always done lead you to this place where you're asseting authority over the stbx through the Court and YOU'VE DONE A SPECTACULAR JOB of it, you truly have.  STBX moving out of the family home and losing control of SG is an amazing accomplishment, so feel that.... trust you can continue winning and helping the girls understand, process their trauma and heal.  You'll heal too.

I'll keep posting the new habits leading to better mental health, flexibility and resilience.....

1.Be super kind to yourself.... esp when you forget.... go back to self compassion like you're comforting a small child.

2.  Drop all judgement.... get very curious instead.  Rinse and repeat as needed.  You can't know what will work for and against you.... sometimes PDs allege or do things that send one's Nervous System on fire only to find out THAT thing exposed the PD to the court or others, more or less, and wasn't a terrible thing after all.  YOU focus on your demeanor, your repsponses and cultivating your ability to respond rather than react.  You're the consistent, calm parent the Court will WANT to give full custody to bc you'll do everything you an to support a relationship between your disordered stbx and the children you share.  The Court doesn't like combative parents duking it out, gutting each other if they can while sacrificing das kinder to the Gods of Hate and Veangence, nope nope nope so BE that rationa, kind, compassionate husband who wants his wife to get help and be the best darned mum she can be.... even if the marriage is ending, bc her behaviors was out of control and detrimental to your mental health and that of your children....... you're the parent who understands children are 50% mum and 50% dad so cosider making that Mommy Box where SG and perhaps GC will put things for their mum till they see her again. 

That Mommy Box might end up in the Courtroom, bc the stbx WILL be accusing you of turning SG against her, but you'll have proof you're attempting to strengthen the mother daughter bond and help SG hold compassion for her mother, just as you are. I say this many times, bc in the heat of Court or meetings or hearings or walking through your narrative with someone new it's difficult to keep ONE narrative in mind when there's all that PD abuse and harm and hurt and pain and the kids are suffering..... it's a lot of pieces in a puzzle that's difficult to hold in focus and SEE all at once.

That's where the breathing and meditation excercises come in....... you're using them to create spacisousness so you CAN see the entire picture and be responsive.  It's about engaging integrating your brain to bring all your abilities to the forefront..... problem solving and logic shut down when you're living in fear, shut down in survival mode so trust trust trust yourself and lean away from your default settings and mindfully pick up these new habits, as you can. 

They will save your emotional health, physical health and teach your children self care, healthy coping strategies and problem solving skills for a life time.

In the meantime, researching healthy boundaries, reading THE FOUR AGREEMENTS by Don Ruiz, THE PARALLEL PROCESS by Krissy Pozatek, LICSW which was prescribed to me when my oldest DD was in Wilderness Camp and Therapeutic Boarding School.... really helpful when sorting through painful parent child situations like this, EM..... so helpful.

You're cultivating perspective....
you're creating spaciousness around the pain and problems so you can "get your nose off the pebble" bc when our noses are ON ONE TERRIBLE PROBLEMATIC PEBBLE we lose sight of everything around us.... solutions and choice are always there, always available IF we find ways to draw back, create that emotional distance and shift into observer mode.

Remember to be very kind to yourself... this is about creating new brain pathways and using them more and more often till they're your new default settings..... the old settings no longer serve. They're a part of you and you can retire them with love and kindness for they once belonged.... they can rest now. 

I wish someone had told me this in a way I could have processed it, but it's likely I wouldn't without more support than I had.  You might not be able to process this or a piece might fit in here or there as you travel this path... I hope so. 

In any case, again, I wish you and your children the best possible outcome.

Expect stbx to turn on her mother and her mother to turn on her and both to turn on the GC..... they're going to be a mess, so you stay mindful of your choice to return to breathing..... shifting into observer mode.... releasing expectation and dropping judgment in favor of curiosity wile extending tsunamis of self compassion to yourself.

SG will likely do better if you read that Parallel Process Book and put some boundaries in place with humor and without judgment.  Kids want boundaries.... it makes them feel safer and teaches them how to handle their own stuff, IME.

Oh how shocking it is to put a boundary in place then watch the children suddenly feel better...... almost relieved...... respectful and lovely.  It's possible and you can do it.  You need the tools, the support and to guard your mental health like a mama tiger defending her cubs.

Failing to remember isn't losing...... it's just a reminder you CAN go back to the new habits....it's how we learn and grow and it's never a failure... it's how humans make big changes and succeed.

Pep talk over, but you're in my thoughts, EM.


3. 

[escapingman]

hhaw, thanks.

Now when uNPdx is out of the house, banned from returning, I am not so adverse to conflict anymore. I know what needs to be done, not all of course, and I know what I want and what's best for the kids. I have already started planning for it and I have a fair idea about how uNPDx will react. If she gives me what I want, she becomes a true victim. That is something she would love to be, get sympathy from people and be able to cry about how horrible I am. I feel I just about might be able to manage that. Right now, she is wounded, her pride is hurt and she need supply. I have been NC with her for almost 3 weeks, I feel great in that sense, she will feel the opposite.

SG is on fire at home, I haven't seen her this happy and calm for a long time. If I can just get GC back then I would be so happy.

[escapingman]

I am going to start a new thread soon, but 3 weeks of no contact. I feel great. I do miss my girl who uNPDx has taken, but the peace. I never been so calm for the last 15 years or so.

[hhaw]

EM:

Can you feel your old familiar self coming back? 

[escapingman]

EM:

Can you feel your old familiar self coming back?

Yes, definitely yes. But version 2 of myself, not so naive anymore.

[guitarman]

You have achieved so much already. Well done.

Unfortunately I've learnt that social services and the law may take a long time to do what is right for all concerned.

Little by little you will obtain your ultimate goal. It will take time. You and your one daughter are now safe and free from harm. That is a major achievement.

Keep calm. Stay strong. Stay safe. Keep posting.

[escapingman]

Thanks for your kind words GM.

I am so tired, could hardly get up this morning and now I am falling asleep in the cad waiting for SG. Not sure it's a good sign or not.

[Andeza]

We have a strong tendency to process things in our sleep, EM. Sounds like your mind and body was very busy working on things last night.

[Starboard Song]

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Thanks to this community for such kind engagement and support.

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